From The Moderator

[duffy99]

I apologize for my post about zombies in the " nasty thing " thread , I thought it was in line with the content of the thread but there was no need for the extra talk about movies , zombies whatever . I do plan to make "Zombie Hunter " choppers I will restrict talk of this to a WIP thread or just a comments of finished products . I know you hate zombie stuff and I hate some stuff that others feel is great , everyone has their own views. With that said I'm new here and it's sad that very talented makers have stopped posting because of too much nonsense , filler, newbie over posting, posting bad advice . I have been quietly told to keep my advice to what I know from my limited experience and have made an effort to not imply that I have more knowledge or experience then I do or pass on improper techniques that happened to work for me . Also because I paid for the Knife maker membership I understand for someone might construe that I'm more knowledgeable or experienced then I am which is false since I have very limited experience and lots of enthusiasm for everything knife making related . I literally spend all my time with knife related stuff right now and spend a lot of time on this sub forum . I really appreciate everything Stacy has given to this forum and agree to disagree on personal likes but will try harder to keep my posts to within the confines dictated in the guidelines.



ps Rick is mean but nobody says nothing cause his blades are so good

pps I know I take things to heart way to much and take the internet to serious.

 

[ERIK KNIVES]

I think that was well said, Duffy. I also think you are owning far too much of the burden. Give yourself a break. I never saw the zombie thread, but I find it hard to believe that anyone is focusing in on you alone.

I paid for a knifemaker membership as well because I wanted to support this forum. And, I have learned enough to make a decent knife, so I consider myself a maker. I'm not selling my knives now but I could. I have a huge sig, a logo and a tag line. I try to only give advice from experience, but I understand the desire to pay it forward or share the things that excite me. I'm sure I have chimed in when I wasn't that productive (like now?)

If some very talented makers have left because of over posting by newer members, maybe like the KITHs, there should be a newbie and an established maker's "Shop Talk." I bet the experienced guys who care would still poke their heads in the newbie area to share their expertise.

I don't think anything is broken here, but perhaps things could be tighter.

The other side of me says this site is really just a business. The paid members are the stockholders - make it what you want!

 

[duffy99]

I keep coming back to this thread as I take breaks from building this worktable / tool chest . I'm not saying I'm to blame for all the problems real or perceived. I am just owning up to whatever I've done . I've always taken responsibility for my actions in real life so internet forums are no different . I find the amount of experience and skilled makers who visit and share on this forum amazing and that there is so much knowledge here but most of it is hidden deep in old threads and some new .It's like having access to 20 professors of the same subject in a school or having lots of people who have encountered the same problems and have solutions readily available . Everyday I learn something new about knife making through this forum and am glad to be a member. I don't know if some people take things to heart or to serious and others the opposite everyone is different and most have something valuable to share.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Duff...... okay.... we get it........ love the forum...... sorry for any wrongdoings, etc, etc....

We're good, buddy.... we're good. You can sit down, now.:thumbup:



Rick

 

[Troop]

Yes! The scoldings have now been completed. Back to being our crazy, fun-loving selves!

 

[Drew Riley]

T
One said to me that he walked away when every kid on his second knife was an expert, and would post advise on how to HT Cowry X when he was using a one brick forge to do the HT on his lawn mower blade knives.

Haha! That's a funny (but all too true) analogy.

That being said, I personally don't believe that the amount of advice you can give on any subject is directly related to the amount of personal/direct experience with it. A little common sense, deductive reasoning, and/or reading comprehension can go (at times) much farther than even specific experience will.

Unfortunately, common sense is far too uncommon, and reading comprehension has been traded for reading apprehension.

There are many ways to gain knowledge, and personal experience is only one of them.

Food for thought.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Very good post, KTAG. Lots of potential signature quotes in that one.

 

[Tai Goo]

If some very talented makers have left because of over posting by newer members, maybe like the KITHs, there should be a newbie and an established maker's "Shop Talk." I bet the experienced guys who care would still poke their heads in the newbie area to share their expertise.

I've often thought a newbies area would help streamline things. It's hard to tell who you are talking to sometimes. The bigger these forums get the more chaotic they seem to get. Trying to moderate a forum like this can't be easy for just one guy. I like Stacy a lot and can see how he could get frustrated with us. I hope I haven't made his job harder, but then when I get caught up in a discussion,... sometimes I get carried away. Best thing is not to take me too seriously when I get like that,... just laugh.

I think Karl started the rubber ducky thing, but I ran with it. I thought it was funny in the alternative to Parks #50 thread, as the rubber ducky sort of symbolizes "idealistic absolutism" and artificiality to me. So, when Karl suggested that I float a rubber ducky in some Parks,... I went over the edge. I don't think it necessarily makes me a bad person or disrespectful,... just a little on the silly side.

I guess I can try harder not to get so goo-fy.

 

[tryppyr]

It's amusing to me that I have my wife convinced I have no sense of humor at all. Frankly, she just doesn't get my humor... most people don't... including me.

So I'll take the pledge and stop posting things that seem amusing to me... and nobody else.

Wait... I just did it again. Damn!

 

[Patrice Lemée]

I've often thought a newbies area would help streamline things.

In theory yes but how do you know if your question or answer for that matter is newbie or "seasoned" one?

 

[Jack O'Neill]

I love this place , it makes me laugh . Even the cat fights .

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Haha! That's a funny (but all too true) analogy.

That being said, I personally don't believe that the amount of advice you can give on any subject is directly related to the amount of personal/direct experience with it. A little common sense, deductive reasoning, and/or reading comprehension can go (at times) much farther than even specific experience will.
Unfortunately, common sense is far too uncommon, and reading comprehension has been traded for reading apprehension.

There are many ways to gain knowledge, and personal experience is only one of them.

Food for thought.

I agree with that in many cases. But when the answer is based on personal knowledge, I always give it the upper hand to "Well, I think/read/deduced....".

Scenario:
You are camping with friends, and you are bit by a rattlesnake. No one in the group knows exactly how to treat a snake bite. One grabs his smart phone and googles "How to Threat a Snake Bite".
Question:
Would you prefer that they use the methods some kid posted on an open forum like "Doc Talk"?...or would you rather he was coached by a doctor or nurse who had actually treated a snake bite before on a controlled site, like "Doctors .com"?

Despite the kid's good intentions, how many books he has read ( BTW, the treatment has changed greatly in books over the past years - you don't make X cuts anymore), and his good deductive reasoning, I still would go with the doctor or nurse advise .
The problem is that the first hit on google may well be one of the kid's 6000 posts on "Doc Talk". What hits the internet is permanent and not subject to peer review or amendment.

 

[Carl_First_Timer]

I do my best to preface with; it would seem to me; I have heard; In my opinion; etc...So that certain threads can provide some sort of an answer, and hopefully a confirmation or correction from an experienced maker/craftsman.

Well I am always learning, I even learned a new word today... "Solipisistic" I have no idea what it means.

Solipsism is the philosophical idea that only one's own mind is sure to exist. The external world and other minds cannot be known, and might not exist outside the mind. As a metaphysical position, solipsism goes further to the conclusion that the world and other minds do not exist.

It was a joke. Don't worry that you did not get it, it's not that good, and even my English major Buddie needed an explanation.

Is it Solipsistic in here, or is it just me?

 

[Tai Goo]

Stacy, I agree. Some people seem to think they can be experts in any subject, just by searching the internet a few times.

It doesn't work like that.

 

[duffy99]

It was late, I was tired had taken sleep meds and your always an easy target . To stir the fire some more how many of you have made bowie knives ? Do you think they would be popular if it wasn't for Rambo ? I would guess that a Bowie would be level to other knife styles and was prior to the movie . I was born in 1981 so maybe some old timer can enlighten me in their popularity pre Rambo. I read the story of Bank I believe as the blade smith who made the first four as Bowie passed through the town and the blade was struck into history with his legend with the knife but does anyone really know what the original design was. And yet bowie's are made , praised for there performance , have been over the top embellished with Damascus, Gold inlay and carvings . Yet nobody knows if that is even close to the design that James Bowie had.

Duff...... okay.... we get it........ love the forum...... sorry for any wrongdoings, etc, etc....

We're good, buddy.... we're good. You can sit down, now.:thumbup:



Rick

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

Well, I was born thirty years before you, and Bowies were the most popular style.....not because of Rambo, but because of Jim Bowie, Davy Crocket, Daniel Boone, and Tarzan ( to mention just a few). Before you were born there was this little dust up in South East Asia. I don't think they even mention it in the school books today. But a lot of the knives used in combat there were modifications on the bowie theme. Much of Bill Moran's fame came from the knives he made that went to Vietnam.
In the 1880-1940 period the main knife type manufactured was the basic bowie shape.
I would say they have lessened since Rambo,....... probably because they are pretty much useless against a Zombie. that takes a specialized Gil Hibben style knife.

As far as your comment about Bowies being of unknown shape or size, the knife HJames had on him at the Sandbar fight is unknown, but the knives made for Rezin and others after it are well known, and several still exist. The description of a Bowie style knife hasn't changed for over 150 years as far as I know.

We are starting to ramble on this thread. The subject was keeping things relevant to the thread topic and not making pages of excess chatter. As all can see, it is easy to get derailed...even when you are the OP. Some degree of knife relevant, but off topic, exchange is always going to pop up, but any needless chatter shouldn be left un-posted.

This thread has about lived its useful life.

 

[Drew Riley]

I agree with that in many cases. But when the answer is based on personal knowledge, I always give it the upper hand to "Well, I think/read/deduced....".

Scenario:
You are camping with friends, and you are bit by a rattlesnake. No one in the group knows exactly how to treat a snake bite. One grabs his smart phone and googles "How to Threat a Snake Bite".
Question:
Would you prefer that they use the methods some kid posted on an open forum like "Doc Talk"?...or would you rather he was coached by a doctor or nurse who had actually treated a snake bite before on a controlled site, like "Doctors .com"?

Despite the kid's good intentions, how many books he has read ( BTW, the treatment has changed greatly in books over the past years - you don't make X cuts anymore), and his good deductive reasoning, I still would go with the doctor or nurse advise .
The problem is that the first hit on google may well be one of the kid's 6000 posts on "Doc Talk". What hits the internet is permanent and not subject to peer review or amendment.

That's a good point Stacy. But to give an example from the other side of the coin:

Several months ago I was was grinding some aluminum on the same grinder and in the same area that I normally grind any other steel or metal in my shop.

Little did I know (as I'm sure many of you more EXPERIENCED knife makers and metal workers already know) that I could have potentially and inadvertently made a dangerous mixture of thermite. Now, I did not experience a thermitic explosion or combustion, but I later learned of it's potential through reading about it on the internet (probably this very knife forum... hahah)
It's the same for me with titanium dust. I've never even had titanium in my shop, but I know of it's explosive potential through reading and studying about it.

Now granted, you do need to take everything with a grain of salt, first hand experience involved or not. Personally, I try to corroborate anything I read (whether online, in a magazine, a book, or what have you) with at least a couple of additional sources.

For the most part, experience is great. Some of my best learned lessons came from experience, and much of what I know is from experience. I'd say it's one of the best learning tools there is. But then again, some things I just don't WANT to experience. So I read about them instead.

 

[Rick Marchand]

Personally, I try to corroborate anything I read (whether online, in a magazine, a book, or what have you) with at least a couple of additional sources.

Thermite is REAL, I did it, not fun...... I was seeing spots for an hour and it burnt a 2" deep hole in a concrete floor. Cleaned up some aluminum signs for my wife and didn't empty my spark collector bucket. It ignited while hogging off some stock. I have since tried to duplicate it without success.

Back on topic. Sorry.

 

[duffy99]

I don't know if your a Vietnam vet or served in a conflict but I can attest to from personal experience and books that are well sourced and peer reviewed about the amount of actual hand to hand , bayonet and knife fighting that takes place in combat. The perception is that lots of people in WWII , Korea and Vietnam were killed in close quarter combat. The statistics from WWII when " Fix Bayonet" was still a very used word of command to soldiers . Bayonet fighting is still taught today and I taught many courses on it . But of deaths by knife , bayonet etc are like 0.2% of casualties in WWII , this was taken from LCOL Grossman's "On Killing" and "On Combat" both of these books were very well researched and Grossman is received by most as the expert when it comes to the realm of actually killings and combat psychology. I don't know if in 'Nam big as knives were popular but in my 12 years of service and 3 tours I found very , very few carried a large knife besides the issued bayonet and most kept that in a barrack box back at the Forward Operating Base . Most if not all carried multi-tools like gerber or leathermans . Some carried folders or smaller fixed blades . No big ass knives were seen in theatre besides some green Private until someone squared them away. I had a 1911 pistol and a M4- heavy barrel carbine, frag grenade, smoke in red and green , a white phos grenade and a 9 banger or 2 ( flash bang). I carried a benchmade folder and a gerber knife wise and left the pistol behind on the majority of patrols / Ops . Maybe before my time people humped around big ass knives but that's not the reality of today. The majority of "tactical knives " are marketed to civvies not LEO's and Military folks. Company's named SOG and such ( Studies and Observation Groups is what it stood for in 'Nam , doesn't sound as cool that way though) are all marketed to civilians and like to add the old " made for / with / by special etc. This is off topic but my experience and my knowledge through reading books and studies and doing it first hand. I'm not trying to argue with you or your knowledge which is much more vast then mine but I know a lot about military related things.
Can you lock this thread in my opinion the point has gotten derailed about the the guidelines of shop talk and I'm guilty of bringing it off topic too and now understand the time and place for certain topics. If I'm posting too much or
" filler" or lousy advice anyone please feel free to tell me and I'll take a big step back.

Well, I was born thirty years before you, and Bowies were the most popular style.....not because of Rambo, but because of Jim Bowie, Davy Crocket, Daniel Boone, and Tarzan ( to mention just a few). Before you were born there was this little dust up in South East Asia. I don't think they even mention it in the school books today. But a lot of the knives used in combat there were modifications on the bowie theme. Much of Bill Moran's fame came from the knives he made that went to Vietnam.
In the 1880-1940 period the main knife type manufactured was the basic bowie shape.
I would say they have lessened since Rambo,....... probably because they are pretty much useless against a Zombie. that takes a specialized Gil Hibben style knife.

As far as your comment about Bowies being of unknown shape or size, the knife HJames had on him at the Sandbar fight is unknown, but the knives made for Rezin and others after it are well known, and several still exist. The description of a Bowie style knife hasn't changed for over 150 years as far as I know.

We are starting to ramble on this thread. The subject was keeping things relevant to the thread topic and not making pages of excess chatter. As all can see, it is easy to get derailed...even when you are the OP. Some degree of knife relevant, but off topic, exchange is always going to pop up, but any needless chatter shouldn be left un-posted.

This thread has about lived its useful life.

 

[stabman]

One said to me that he walked away when every kid on his second knife was an expert

Sometimes the person on their second or third knife has pertinent info for the guy on his first.
I remember the condescending attitudes when I first asked about forging...I believe the remark "school must get out early in Canada" came up.
Sometimes the experts are so hung up in the proper way to do things with the proper equipment and the proper steel that they forget the joy of going outside with a hammer, an anvil, and whatever steel one could find to buy.

Knowledge is good and I respect it, but sometimes a less expert insight is what is needed at the moment.