Frustrated Newbie with a Spyderco Sharpmaker

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

So after a lifetime (I just turned 45) of carrying SAKs and lower priced locking folders and fixed blades, I've been buying quality production knives for the past three months or so. The bug bit me HARD, and I now own fifteen Spyderco knives and about twenty Victorinox knives, plus a few others, mostly fixed blades.

I've owned and used a Spyderco Sharpmaker for about two months now and while I know there's a learning curve to using it, I'm really frustrated. For one thing, I can sharpen a Vic SAK to razor sharp ... paper slicing, hair shaving (not really "popping") sharp very quickly. But when sharpening VG-10 steel on the Spydercos, I can get a good working edge on the medium course stone. But when I go to the fine stones, I either gain no further sharpness or, I believe, lose a little bit. I can't polish a Spyderco to reliably slice paper, much less pop hair.

I've watched the video. I've practiced. I've used a VERY light touch. Sal Glesser says to use "about three lbs" on the video. I don't know exactly what that is, but I've experimented with a really light touch to where it just barely moves the sharpmaker if I keep my non-dominant hand off of it. I bought a loupe. I can't detect burrs or rolls on the blade after I sharpen.

I am clearly at a plateau here. And because I can sharpen Vic steel like nobody's business, it appears to be an issue with harder steels.

Oh, and I own a strop and believe I'm using it correctly. It will restore a fine edge to a lightly used knife just fine.

Do you have any tips? Should I continue to sharpen Vics until I have more experience and then move up to harder steels?



EDIT: My previous sharpening experience was limited to wetstones. But I felt like I was pretty good at it, at least on getting adequate working edges.

 

[JV3]

what kind of spyderco steels are you trying to sharpen? i only have experience with 2 military (both s30v) and contrary to how i sharpen my other knives (progressively lighter with 1095 and vg10), i actually bear down hard on it (almost like i'm cutting cardboard) all through the medium to extra-fine stones and get it shaving sharp easily. i find that a light touch won't even budge these hard steels.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

VG-10 steel is excellent, but it's also one of my 'pet peeve' steels, when it comes to sharpening. It's really prone to forming stubborn wire edges, which can definitely make it seem to go 'dull' with continued sharpening. To complicate the matter, ceramic sharpeners (like the Sharpmaker's rods) can create a wire edge very quickly, if pressure is a little too heavy. You might test for a wire edge on your blade. To do that, you can use your fingernail/thumbnail, a needle tip, or the tip of a sharp toothpick. Slide it down the face of the blade, toward the edge. Do this on each side of the blade. If a wire edge is there, it will likely be folded over to one side or the other. If so, your thumbnail/needle/toothpick will butt up against it as it slides to the edge, and it'll stop there. Do this test with a very light touch, and very slowly & carefully. Sometimes, if the wire edge is small, it's relatively easy to skip over it without feeling it. Do this test, and get back to us with what you find. We'll decide what to do from there.

BTW, I emphasize the above, because virtually every VG-10 blade (mostly Spyderco) that I've sharpened on ceramics has presented at least a little bit of a wire edge, which takes some time to remove.

 

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

I tested the Delica that's giving me trouble with my fingernail last night. But, upon reading your post again, I don't think I was checking it correctly for a wire edge. I plan to check it again, as well as work some more on the medium stone at 30% inclusive to better shape the bevel. I want to insure the bevel is nice and deep before I worry about fine sharpening.

 

[Taonari]

It sounds like you are sharing some of my early frustrations with the Sharpmaker. You should be able to slice paper after the medium stones. If you can't then I would guess you are not hitting your edge with the stones. Try the Sharpie trick by marking your edge with the marker and give it a couple of light passes on the medium stone to see where you are actually hitting.

I use light pressure with the medium stones and even lighter with the fine. Don't move onto the fine stones until you can cut paper with the medium stones alone. It just sounds like you aren't hitting the whole edge.

 

[RubiconSS]

I have come to sharpen ONLY with some Sharpie ticks on the very edge. It's just too critical to be sure the edge is being hit and the proper amount of material removed.
Also have come to embrace slow and light when it comes to passes on the SM or the W.E.
Finally, for me it took awhile to accept there is nothing quick about sharpening. It is a time consuming and deliberate act but done with patience it is a worthwhile investment of time IMO.
Once Sharpening was viewed as a Hobby - it became less of a chore for me.

 

[slight]

i have been having problems with my sharpmaker as well. Every knife i own is shaving sharp except one, my boss jack. try as i might i jjust cannot get it to shave. I feel your pain

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

It realy sounds like you aren't getting to the apex of the blade and the wire edge issue. Are you SURE your raising a bur on both sides (aka the sharpie trick). You mention you have a loupe, double check with the sharpie and if you detect a wire, lightly draw through a felt block or a piece of wood to pull it off. If you have a good digi cam, post a clear macro photo so we can see.

Capt. Thomas

 

[shunsui]

Couple of suggestions. Clean the stones often with scouring powder and 3M green scotchbright. Use your eyes and scrutinize the blade edge - stone contact angle. Use consistent strokes. Try concentrating on pulling the knife back more than down in the sharpening motion, keeping the edge angle consistent.

 

[Reasoned1]

I'm 45, too, and have been sharpening knives fairly effectively on rectangular stones since I was about 7. I started using the Sharpmaker set-up about two years ago, have reprofiled about a dozen knives, sharpened many, many more, and LOVE it. As has already been pointed out, it's very easy to miss the very edge if the bevel isn't right and, if it ain't right, it takes a HELL of a long time to get it right (hours and hours and thousands of strokes)--and that's not anything with a Rockwell hardness over 60. This is the main reason I tend to sharpen at a 40 degree angle (which is plenty sharp and stronger)--because it's often easier to hit the edge with the rod. If A LOT of material needs to be removed, I use a file to rough in the bevel (don't over-do it!).

I found out quickly that the diamond rods are an absolute must to get the bevel and edge "prepped" before using the medium rods. Once prepped, however, sharpening with the medium, fine, and ultra-fine rods goes fairly quickly (a few to several hundred strokes per side). As also mentioned, maintain the angle! Your technique will improve with practice, but the objective is truly simple: create a wedge of steel and, THEN, sharpen it with progressively finer stones. The Sharpmaker has never failed for me--ever--and when I have had trouble, it was because the bevel wasn't right and the rods weren't hitting the edge, and THAT CAN BE DIFFICULT TO SEE (that's where a Sharpie can be helpful).

As already mentioned, keep the rods clean, and I prefer using the corners of the rods to the flats when finishing (it's easier to maintain consistent contact with the rod).

 

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

Thanks, everybody. I haven't had time the last couple of nights to sharpen (haven't been home) but tonight I'll try the Sharpie trick and check for a wire edge. I don't currently have the diamond dust rods, but I'm sure they're in my future.

 

[Reasoned1]

Moe,

The diamond rods are absolutely necessary for reestablishing the bevel. I know it sucks to have to spend another $40, but it's still very worth it, and remember not to press too hard, maintain the angle, and have infinite patience.

 

[RubiconSS]

MSM- Don't be afraid to take a trip to your local automotive supply and get a smattering of sandpaper and wrap (tightly) your SM rods to give you an even broader range of grits.
The SM is a great tool, for me - I use it for touch-ups, micro-bevels, putting an edge on an already sharp knife etc.
As for re-profiling or major edge repair.... I'll use my Wicked Edge and again even though owning every paddle, I still augment with wet/dry sandpaper grits up to 2500 before strops.

 

[Reasoned1]

I'll have to try wrapping the rods with abrasive paper. I trust it works, but it seems like it'd be tough to get it tight enough.

 

[RubiconSS]

I'll have to try wrapping the rods with abrasive paper. I trust it works, but it seems like it'd be tough to get it tight enough.

Take the rod and put it into the paper (edge to edge) You can start by taping that edge,the tape will be folded over with last wrap of sandpaper .
Hold tight/Fold tight, each corner crease has to be tight.
Once done then cut and tape, I use blue tape.

 

[Mud Shrimp Moe]

I worked on my knife some more tonight. A little background that I don't think I gave above. It's a Spyderco Delica that I bought used. The blade wasn't scratched up, but it had a noticeably shallower bevel than my other (new) Spyderco Delica with a factory edge.

Tonight I worked it for a good hour with the edge of the medium Spyderco Sharpmaker rod and then finished it up with the flat side, fine rod and finally a strop. It is better, and can cut paper now, although not as consistently as I'd like. It is not shaving sharp yet, but it is close to what I'd deem a "working edge."

The real kicker is just before sharpening the VG-10 Delica I sharpened a very seriously dull Leatherman blade all the way to shaving sharp. The softer Leatherman steel sharpened much faster and ultimately got MUCH sharper than the VG-10. I imagine I'll get advice that I need to rebevel the edge on the Delica with the diamond rods and now I believe it. However, tonight was a good learning experience for me. And I did make some good progress and learned a lot about how much harder the VG-10 steel is from softer steel.

The following pics are about the best I can get with my camera.

Here it is side by side with the factory edge of the other Delica. The factory edge is on the left.

 

[Cpt. Thomas]

I may get blasted for this but I'm going to offer this "opinion" any way because I have years and years of experience, I have the Sharp Maker and all of the available rods including the diamond rods and a few custom made rods as well, also a EP Pro along with $800-$900 worth of other stones, wheels, belts and gadgets I have collected throught the years. So I'm going to stand by this "opinion".

The Sharp Maker is a fine tool if you are using it the right way, if you are using the correct stones for the task required etc. It is not a good tool for serious re-profiles or damaged edges because it takes to long even with the diamond rods. It excells at maintaing an already set up blade and for quick touch ups of almost any blade with the porper stone for the steel.

I have done re-profiles on softer steels and it will do them, just not as fast or easy as using a correct tool / set up for stock removal. Would I consider doing a mild bevel set or repair on 440 or 1095 with the sharpmaker? Sure! On ZDP-189, S90V, D2 (properly hardened)....... nope. I have better things to do than spend an hour (or many more) attempting to use a less than optimum tool for the job. I would (and have) used regular tool files for 30 minutes or less that had a blade ready for the sharpmaker. The sharp maker alone would have taken hours.

I guess what I could have said in much fewer words is that the sharp maker is a fine sharpener & hone for blades of any steel that are sharpen / hone ready. Not too bad a tool for edge repair & minor re-profile on softer steels. Is a terrible grinder..... specialy on "super steels".

Ok I just put on my kevlar........ fire away!

Capt. Thomas

 

[Reasoned1]

Capt, I love the Sharpmaker but, like everything, it has its limits, and I think you're 100% correct.

 

[Taonari]

Mud Shrimp Moe, thanks for the pictures. In the first two pictures the edge looks almost like someone tried to convex it before. To me it looks like you are only sharpening the bevel close to the tip. In the second picture it appears that you are hitting more of the shoulder than anything else. I could be wrong because it is hard to tell in pictures. I think that the edge needs more reprofiling before you can go all the way on the Sharpmaker.

Just my two cents. You are close man.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

....Here it is side by side with the factory edge of the other Delica. The factory edge is on the left.

I have an Endura that came with an edge like that (rather thick/obtuse). That definitely made it harder to put a sharp edge on it. I finally used a DMT Aligner & Magna-Guide with C/F/EF/EEF Dia-Folds to put a more acute bevel on it. Still took some time to get the edge REALLY sharp (due to the wire edge issues I mentioned earlier), but the results were worth it. On your blade, if the bevel was close to, or even more than 40 degrees inclusive, that could've contributed greatly to the difficulties on the Sharpmaker. Thick edges like that will more frequently make contact at the shoulder of the bevel, instead of on the edge itself.

I think the steel in the Leatherman tool's blade is something along the lines of 420HC, hardened to mid-50s RC or so, and with a very thin edge grind. All of that makes those much easier to sharpen, as you found. I have a Wave and a SuperTool, both with blades like that. That's a good basis for comparison against your VG-10 blade; really brings out the differences between some steels.