Frustrating

RevDevil said:
I sold a knife to a buy in NZ before. He must have been completely new to buying anything overseas. He emailed me every day 1-3 times a day for 2 weeks. WHen he did get the knife, he didn't even have the courtesy to say thanks, I got it, everything is cool, nothing. Poor form.:thumbdn:
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Poor form indeed. People like that are unfortunately present in all countries. I would point out that many of us Kiwis aren't like that though.

Sorry for not searching enough before posting this, my bad.

Thanks to all who have replied, thank you, I really appreciate you all helping me understand the situation better.
 
I shipped a Backwoods knife to England. I was rather nervous of doing so, but it worked out and he got the knife after three weeks.
 
Never hurts to ask. Luckily my parents live in the US, so I have an address I can ship to there. This often means I wont see my knife for several months, but thems the breaks.
 
TOMBSTONE said:
Cursum, whats your response to the seller if the knife you buy from the USA doesn't arrive?
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Since starting this thread I have been emailed by a BF member saying he has no problem shipping overseas, and asking what I was looking for. I emailed him back to thank him and tell him of a few folders I'm looking for. He replied saying he has one of them LNIB, telling me the price and his conditions. Here is part of his email to me:

"However, once the knife leaves my possession, my responsibility ends. The reason being that I have no control of what happens once knife is in the possession of customs of your country. Of course, I will provide proof of shipping in the form of tracking # as well as a pic of the package with affixed postage & US Postal Service receipt. If we agree to those terms, I have no problems selling outside of US."

I replied telling him that I accepted the conditions and fully accept he has no further responsibility once he has mailed it.
Of course I looked at his details on BF and see he has a 100% feedback score on well over 100 dealings.

I now await some pictures from him of the knife, and feel quite confidant going ahead with the deal.

Also, almost all of my knives come from the US, though mostly from good online dealers, usually shipped USPS.
Once I didn't get the knife because NZ Customs confiscated it. They are stupid enough to think a ZT 0452 CF is a 'flick knife'. I'm still arguing with them over that though hold no real hope of getting it. The dealer I bought it from has not heard a word from me about it as it is, of course, nothing to do with them.

Also, I have sent a knife to the US for custom scales to be fitted to it (at the request of the maker), he mailed it back to me via USPS, got here ok. I know he is an honest reputable man, so if for some reason it had got lost in the mail I would in no way have thought him in any way accountable.

In short, caveat emptor, do the due diligence, be fair and reasonable with people, and that's the best I can do. Either that or I can't buy the knives I want.
 
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Cursum Perficio said:
Since starting this thread I have been emailed by a BF member saying he has no problem shipping overseas, and asking what I was looking for. I emailed him back to thank him and tell him of a few folders I'm looking for. He replied saying he has one of them LNIB, telling me the price and his conditions. Here is part of his email to me:

"However, once the knife leaves my possession, my responsibility ends. The reason being that I have no control of what happens once knife is in the possession of customs of your country. Of course, I will provide proof of shipping in the form of tracking # as well as a pic of the package with affixed postage & US Postal Service receipt. If we agree to those terms, I have no problems selling outside of US."

I replied telling him that I accepted the conditions and fully accept he has no further responsibility once he has mailed it.
Of course I looked at his details on BF and see he has a 100% feedback score on well over 100 dealings.

I now await some pictures from him of the knife, and feel quite confidant going ahead with the deal.

Also, almost all of my knives come from the US, though mostly from good online dealers, usually shipped USPS.
Once I didn't get the knife because NZ Customs confiscated it. They are stupid enough to think a ZT 0452 CF is a 'flick knife'. I'm still arguing with them over that though hold no real hope of getting it. The dealer I bought it from has not heard a word from me about it as it is, of course, nothing to do with them.

Also, I have sent a knife to the US for custom scales to be fitted to it (at the request of the maker), he mailed it back to me via USPS, got here ok. I know he is an honest reputable man, so if for some reason it had got lost in the mail I would in no way have thought him in any way accountable.

In short, caveat emptor, do the due diligence, be fair and reasonable with people, and that's the best I can do. Either that or I can't buy the knives I want.
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This is meaningless.... he is still responsible for the knife till it arrives at your door. If you do not receive the knife, you file a dispute with Paypal and you get your money back, and he loses. People who say they are not responsible once the package leaves their hands have no idea what they are talking about.
 
It has been said many times that shipping outside CONUS is a hassle and a risk. I have a practical suggestion on what can help reluctant shippers (of which I am one). If you are the buyer outside CONUS then try this:
Get an account on the USPS web site
Complete the shipping label and custom forms on-line as though you are the shipper
Save the forms to PDF
Email the completed forms to the shipper
Accept responsibility for the shipment once it hits the USPS office
Tah-dah! You have just relieved both the hassle and risk.
Custom forms are different and I am not an expert. But if you live in country "X" it would be easy to learn your system as well as address formatting, etc. Somebody has to do all this stuff. Offer to take it on yourself and see if the seller will cooperate. If they will not, well, then you have given it your best shot. Good luck!
 
PayPal says otherwise. You are responsible to get it to their door. No if ands or buts about it. If you done the buyer gets a refund if they ask.
 
Bushcraft Forever said:
This is meaningless.... he is still responsible for the knife till it arrives at your door. If you do not receive the knife, you file a dispute with Paypal and you get your money back, and he loses. People who say they are not responsible once the package leaves their hands have no idea what they are talking about.
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Correct!!!
 
Cursum Perficio said:
Poor form indeed. People like that are unfortunately present in all countries. I would point out that many of us Kiwis aren't like that though.

Sorry for not searching enough before posting this, my bad.

Thanks to all who have replied, thank you, I really appreciate you all helping me understand the situation better.
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I know there are thoughtless people from all corners of the world. The good thing is many of my dealings have not been with those people. The overall problem is clarity, or lack thereof regarding laws, legality in general, and communication. No one wants to get burned, and sending a package with good intentions, not meaning any harm to come to anyone, only to have customs tax the crap out of a meager or expensive parcel or confiscation means someone is going to come out losing at some point. I think if people would communicate clearly and on time, things would be much smoother. A proxy buyer is not a bad idea. I've offered to do this for some folks many times at no risk to the seller since the deal would be US, 50 states. I'm sure a solution will present itself sooner or later.
 
neffarious said:
PayPal says otherwise. You are responsible to get it to their door. No if ands or buts about it. If you done the buyer gets a refund if they ask.
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Those of us who understand this, are reluctant to ship to another country, because we are responsible, within the rules of PayPal. The buyers in other countries complain about that, but they want to pay through PayPal, because of the protection. If I ask them to pay through Western Union, they usually stay quiet, and stop responding.
 
I believe sending to proxy buyers is also a problem with Pay Pal. It is suppose to be sent to the confirmed address that PP has.
As I said in the previous thread, I am out. I have just had too many losses outside the US. I do have a thought to throw out. I have always felt that the shipping losses were due somewhat to shipping USPS priority, which then gets transferred to the foreign countries carrier as well as going through customs. That's a lot of different handlers each of which will just blame another for any loss. I think if you send via FedEx express you would have greater success. This would come at a higher price, but loosing knives is not cheap either. With this method the package stays within one carrier the full trip and their tracking and with express it arrives fast. I got a package from True North when they were in Canada and it only took 18hrs from order to arrival in Florida.-I was impressed. Another member suggested sending registered mail and this could work well.
 
stonesell said:
Those of us who understand this, are reluctant to ship to another country, because we are responsible, within the rules of PayPal. The buyers in other countries complain about that, but they want to pay through PayPal, because of the protection. If I ask them to pay through Western Union, they usually stay quiet, and stop responding.
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Unfortunately Western Union payments are a huge red flag, and I can't blame them for getting scared out of the deal.
 
So, again, to look for solutions...... The buyer puts in the PayPal comment field that they take responsibility for the shipment once it reaches USPS. Then if there is a dispute there is documentation in the PP system.
Of course, if either party in the transaction is not honest and refuses to honor their agreement, then the deal can go wrong on many fronts - CONUS or not.
The bottom line here is that some folks have decided to never ship outside CONUS again, and that is their prerogative. It does seem to me there are solutions here that could help those on the fence. I'm inside CONUS and really am not too worked up over this. And, we have seen several similar threads over time. I'll let y'all have this back to debate. Again, good luck to those trying to solve the problem.
 
"However, once the knife leaves my possession, my responsibility ends. The reason being that I have no control of what happens once knife is in the possession of customs of your country. Of course, I will provide proof of shipping in the form of tracking # as well as a pic of the package with affixed postage & US Postal Service receipt. If we agree to those terms, I have no problems selling outside of US."

Bushcraft Forever said:
This is meaningless.... he is still responsible for the knife till it arrives at your door. If you do not receive the knife, you file a dispute with Paypal and you get your money back, and he loses. People who say they are not responsible once the package leaves their hands have no idea what they are talking about.
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If the seller has honestly done his best to sell and send me the item, and for some reason it doesn't get to me and neither of us knows why (can't see that happening with a tracking number involved) then I would not use PayPal to get my money back, thus screwing the seller. I just wouldn't feel right doing that.
If I find out that the seller has been dishonest then yes I would.

I say again, it's my responsibility to do the due diligence as best I can and it is then my decision and therefore my responsibility whether to go ahead with the deal.

I will also point out again that if I don't take this approach then I don't get to pursue my interest in knives. Too often they are simply unobtainable without some tiny element of risk involved somewhere. This is very much a key point here.

I am fully aware of import tax laws and knife laws and the Customs Import Prohibition Order in my country. There's that due diligence again. Honestly I do this with my eyes wide open.

Rev is absolutely correct about communicating clearly and on time and I very much do that.

And some good news, a US BF member that I recently gifted something to has agreed to proxy for me with a knife purchase. I feel very appreciative of that, as I otherwise don't know anyone in the US.

This whole thing is seen as a can of worms the more I read, when it seems to me that with honesty and clear communication it just doesn't need to be. Yes, I can see the pitfalls and added hassles to the seller are there, but the many times I've purchased a knife from the US has shown me that generally it works just fine, provided both parties are genuine, honest, fair minded people.

If the seller does not want to sell outside CONUS, I accept their decision, as stated in my opening post. Doesn't mean I can't feel a bit frustrated by it.
 
Cursum Perficio said:
"However, once the knife leaves my possession, my responsibility ends. The reason being that I have no control of what happens once knife is in the possession of customs of your country. Of course, I will provide proof of shipping in the form of tracking # as well as a pic of the package with affixed postage & US Postal Service receipt. If we agree to those terms, I have no problems selling outside of US."



If the seller has honestly done his best to sell and send me the item, and for some reason it doesn't get to me and neither of us knows why (can't see that happening with a tracking number involved) then I would not use PayPal to get my money back, thus screwing the seller. I just wouldn't feel right doing that.
If I find out that the seller has been dishonest then yes I would.

I say again, it's my responsibility to do the due diligence as best I can and it is then my decision and therefore my responsibility whether to go ahead with the deal.

I will also point out again that if I don't take this approach then I don't get to pursue my interest in knives. Too often they are simply unobtainable without some tiny element of risk involved somewhere. This is very much a key point here.

I am fully aware of import tax laws and knife laws and the Customs Import Prohibition Order in my country. There's that due diligence again. Honestly I do this with my eyes wide open.

Rev is absolutely correct about communicating clearly and on time and I very much do that.

And some good news, a US BF member that I recently gifted something to has agreed to proxy for me with a knife purchase. I feel very appreciative of that, as I otherwise don't know anyone in the US.

This whole thing is seen as a can of worms the more I read, when it seems to me that with honesty and clear communication it just doesn't need to be. Yes, I can see the pitfalls and added hassles to the seller are there, but the many times I've purchased a knife from the US has shown me that generally it works just fine, provided both parties are genuine, honest, fair minded people.

If the seller does not want to sell outside CONUS, I accept their decision, as stated in my opening post. Doesn't mean I can't feel a bit frustrated by it.
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Not all buyers, or sellers for that matter, are this honest and hold to their word. There have been threads in the GBU where an international buyer agrees to the terms but later complains they didn't get their knife. I think it sucks for you international guys. I'd love to sell more readily to international places but the fact is the risk is increased, more so depending on where you ship. The same can be said deciding on who to ship to. Selling stuff to people you don't know over the internet has risk. Besides not selling knives I no longer have a use for over the internet, all I can do is try to reduce my risk of loss. Deciding to not sell to certain places is an easy way to reduce my risk.
 
In my limited international sales experience-No matter what PP would do on a claim, buyers have upheld their end of any agreement made between us, be it shipping to a non PP approved US address or voiding responsibility once the package left my hands. PP was never involved in any losses. The buyer is not the problem, other than when asking sellers to lie on custom forms. The problem for me has been in the shipping. Somebody out there intercepts too many of my international packages. I don't know if it is in the US, customs or foreign postal carriers. The last one seemed to be foreign postal carrier, in that my post master was able to track it to delivered, but I don't believe it was. The guy seemed on all levels honest, and to his knowledge he was going to be stuck with the full loss. I latter offered to split the pain.
I fully understand the OP's and other foreign members frustration. If I were in your shoes I would be just as frustrated, but I have lost 3-4 outgoing and 1 incoming. I have done much better on incoming, but it is still a poor record compared to 100% delivered US, and at 62 years old I have probably had 2-3 letters not delivered(US) and one of those I got back 4-5 years latter stamped LOST UNDER HEAVY EQUIPMENT(can't believe they had a stamp).
It is not smart to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect different results
 
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