(G.E. Chen knives) Maplegear is a direct copy of the Knifeart website!

KenHash said:
Sorry but I disagree. The cost of manufacturing just about anything in China is lower than in the US/EU/Japan. Whether a product is produced in a factory or hand made one by one makes no difference. The labor cost in a factory in China is low because the cost of living is low, not because they are uneducated. One person hand making knives in China also has lower living costs.
A handmade knife made in China will not cost as much to make as if the same knife were made in the U.S.
And premium materials do not cost the same everywhere. Sure a hand made in China wull cost more than a factory made in China because there is no economy of scale. But by how much?
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How much does economy of scale matter? A lot. Like, really a lot. And yes, cost of living is lower (but rising very fast). At the end of the day though, things are worth what people will pay for them and even small operations need to turn a healthy profit. If you get a knife with the same materials, a design you like, and the same fit and finish, does it really matter where it came from? Sure you may prefer to support US makers, but a lot of people don't care - they just buy what they like. I understand your complaints, but that doesn't mean the knife is bad or that people shouldn't buy it.

Edit: It should be noted that the steel here is 3V. That's a premium american steel, which will actually cost MORE in China, due to import costs and taxes. And machining premium steels costs a lot no matter where it happens.
 
KenHash said:
I'm not talking about the knife maker, design,or quaity of the knife itself. I'm wondering how a knife could be made in China with their material and labor costs and have such a retail price. Mayby there's an expanation?
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From what I know, Chen is a one-man shop (very small operation), and uses premium material (3V), modern machines and plenty of sweat.

I don't think country matters.
 
amg137 said:
How much does economy of scale matter? A lot. Like, really a lot. And yes, cost of living is lower (but rising very fast). At the end of the day though, things are worth what people will pay for them and even small operations need to turn a healthy profit. If you get a knife with the same materials, a design you like, and the same fit and finish, does it really matter where it came from? Sure you may prefer to support US makers, but a lot of people don't care - they just buy what they like. I understand your complaints, but that doesn't mean the knife is bad or that people shouldn't buy it.

Edit: It should be noted that the steel here is 3V. That's a premium american steel, which will actually cost MORE in China, due to import costs and taxes. And machining premium steels costs a lot no matter where it happens.
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Fiirstly economy of scale matters ALOT in any manufacturing. It can reduce the per product cost by massive amounts, determining the successs or faulure of a business. Secondly, I have never complained, nor have I even questioned the quaity of the knife much less callec it "bad". I haven't even complained about where the knife comes from. I simply questuon the retail price of $180 for this type of knife made in China with their manufacturing costs, whether it be a one man shop or a 1000 man factory. You appear to be tryung to justify this price on the grounds that the manufacturung cost should be same anywhere. If so, that simply isn't true. Sure CPM 3V will cost more CIF China than FOB Pennsylvania. But that's also assuming it's really CPM 3V beng sold and used. You hit the nail on the head with "even small operations need to turn a healthy profit". It's looking very healthy.
 
KenHash said:
Fiirstly economy of scale matters ALOT in any manufacturing. It can reduce the per product cost by massive amounts, determining the successs or faulure of a business. Secondly, I have never complained, nor have I even questioned the quaity of the knife much less callec it "bad". I haven't even complained about where the knife comes from. I simply questuon the retail price of $180 for this type of knife made in China with their manufacturing costs, whether it be a one man shop or a 1000 man factory. You appear to be tryung to justify this price on the grounds that the manufacturung cost should be same anywhere. If so, that simply isn't true. Sure CPM 3V will cost more CIF China than FOB Pennsylvania. But that's also assuming it's really CPM 3V beng sold and used. You hit the nail on the head with "even small operations need to turn a healthy profit". It's looking very healthy.
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Chen's knife if made in the US would have easily commanded $300+. I am yet to see a maker who includes a dog tag of the cutout from the knife handle - there itself is an innovative idea. You should also read Chen's tests and improvisations before commenting on the price and the country of origin (see my previous post).

As I said earlier, the country doesn't matter. Your opting out from purchasing the knife or criticizing the cost based on cost of living doesn't make it any lesser quality than an American made knife. :-)
 
Many website can have similar templates, nothing new or illegal about it. Many people make a living (graphic designers) by building specific templates. They offer the customers the ability to change color schemes or button layouts, etc.
 
Rasco said:
Is it possible that both websites were created using the same template.....??
Calm down guy.
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Or the same web designer, or even that when they hired a web designer they showed that person the knifeart website and said "this is what I want it to look like". I see nothing wrong with modeling your website after another one. Nobody really cares about the aesthetics so long as the whole thing is user friendly anyway.
 
KenHash said:
I'm not talking about the knife maker, design,or quaity of the knife itself. I'm wondering how a knife could be made in China with their material and labor costs and have such a retail price. Mayby there's an expanation?
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Probably for the same reason a phone made in China with an apple logo sells at a premium.
 
Personally I wouldn't pay that kind of money for made in China. However, I find the rising costs of Chinese made products a good sign for the USA in the end. As the products become closer in price to USA made we will gain our manufacturing power back. When a choice between two products are no longer because of costs I think most people will choose US over China.
 
choombak said:
Chen's knife if made in the US would have easily commanded $300+. I am yet to see a maker who includes a dog tag of the cutout from the knife handle - there itself is an innovative idea. You should also read Chen's tests and improvisations before commenting on the price and the country of origin (see my previous post).

As I said earlier, the country doesn't matter. Your opting out from purchasing the knife or criticizing the cost based on cost of living doesn't make it any lesser quality than an American made knife. :-)
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You are barking up the wrong tree.I am not criticizing the knifemaker, or the quality of the knife, or China as you seem to think. Your statement that "country doesn't matter" is correct only as far as the knife itself is concerned. But that's not what I am talking about. Country of origin most certainly matters as far as costs are concerned. Why else do you think the American knife industry started with U.S. made, then went to Made in Solingen Germany, then Made in Seki Japan, and now Made in China over the last 70 years?
If this subject knife were made in a US factory I suspect it would cost about $200, and if it were custom made here perhaps $400. I think we all can easily accept double a price as being not unusual or unexpected.
China is capable of producing some quality knives. For example, Boker's Magnum Line, which includes both some pretty good knives and
some pretty bad knives. But even their good knives retail in the US for $40.00. So if that same knife were hand made in a small shop
in China, I would expect it to retail for $80. OK, want to say $100? Fine. That's still a far cry from $180.00.
And certainly not justified by these "innovations" you mentioned in my opinion. So, let's see what happens, if these knives are succesfull
at $180 retail, or are they "overpriced"? I simply know that I can find many other alternatives if I want to spend that level of money.
 
KenHash said:
You are barking up the wrong tree.I am not criticizing the knifemaker, or the quality of the knife, or China as you seem to think. Your statement that "country doesn't matter" is correct only as far as the knife itself is concerned. But that's not what I am talking about. Country of origin most certainly matters as far as costs are concerned. Why else do you think the American knife industry started with U.S. made, then went to Made in Solingen Germany, then Made in Seki Japan, and now Made in China over the last 70 years?
If this subject knife were made in a US factory I suspect it would cost about $200, and if it were custom made here perhaps $400. I think we all can easily accept double a price as being not unusual or unexpected.
China is capable of producing some quality knives. For example, Boker's Magnum Line, which includes both some pretty good knives and
some pretty bad knives. But even their good knives retail in the US for $40.00. So if that same knife were hand made in a small shop
in China, I would expect it to retail for $80. OK, want to say $100? Fine. That's still a far cry from $180.00.
And certainly not justified by these "innovations" you mentioned in my opinion. So, let's see what happens, if these knives are succesfull
at $180 retail, or are they "overpriced"? I simply know that I can find many other alternatives if I want to spend that level of money.
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Yet you conveniently ignore the fact he is not a profit-by-volume Boker-like shop, rather a small custom shop producing numbered knives in small batches. In this scenario it is difficult to make accurate judgement about the actual costs involved including the time spent individually on each knife, which dictate the final market pricing. I find your argument about "made in China so you are not supposed to charge so much" funny. :-)

Oh and a friend back in India hand makes pashmina shawls with intricate designs. Takes him about a week to finish up, and these retail between $300 through $800 in small boutique shops in the US. By your yardstick of "cost of living" this would be ransom-like! ;-) His shawls are in very high demand here...
 
Rasco said:
Is it possible that both websites were created using the same template.....??
Calm down guy.
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Yeah, seriously calm down. Same template. No big deal.

Also, your assessment on the knife is way off as well. They look completely different and are made of completely different materials. Further, if the Nimravus had a sheath that good I might have kept the two I had...
 
choombak said:
Yet you conveniently ignore the fact he is not a profit-by-volume Boker-like shop, rather a small custom shop producing numbered knives in small batches. In this scenario it is difficult to make accurate judgement about the actual costs involved including the time spent individually on each knife, which dictate the final market pricing. I find your argument about "made in China so you are not supposed to charge so much" funny. :-)
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Not to nit pick but you don't know either ;)

choombak said:
Oh and a friend back in India hand makes pashmina shawls with intricate designs. Takes him about a week to finish up, and these retail between $300 through $800 in small boutique shops in the US. By your yardstick of "cost of living" this would be ransom-like! ;-) His shawls are in very high demand here...
Click to expand...

How much would those shawls cost if they we made in L.A. or Wisconsin or NYC? Cost of living is a very real market influence. The same bottle of water I buy down the street for $1 will cost me $5 70 miles east.
 
craytab said:
Not to nit pick but you don't know either ;)

How much would those shawls cost if they we made in L.A. or Wisconsin or NYC? Cost of living is a very real market influence. The same bottle of water I buy down the street for $1 will cost me $5 70 miles east.
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If my target market is the US, I don't think I would charge China prices in the US market. The market also decides the pricing. For custom goods, the pricing is a whole different strategy else we won't be seeing $1K+ knives in the US market either.

So yes, cost of living is one of the many factors that go into pricing any goods, not the only or even primary factor (unless the goods are targeted for the same market - China based goods sold in China).

As for how much the Pashmina would cost if made in LA, I don't know. But certainly $1 is more than adequate for a one time meal in India. :-)
 
choombak said:
Yet you conveniently ignore the fact he is not a profit-by-volume Boker-like shop, rather a small custom shop producing numbered knives in small batches. In this scenario it is difficult to make accurate judgement about the actual costs involved including the time spent individually on each knife, which dictate the final market pricing. I find your argument about "made in China so you are not supposed to charge so much" funny. :-)

Oh and a friend back in India hand makes pashmina shawls with intricate designs. Takes him about a week to finish up, and these retail between $300 through $800 in small boutique shops in the US. By your yardstick of "cost of living" this would be ransom-like! ;-) His shawls are in very high demand here...
Click to expand...

I pointed out the cost differences one would expect between factory production and custom ie; hand made, so I'm obviously not "ignoring" anything, convenient or otherwise. If I lived in the US and hand made knives, with the cost of
everything; materials, electricity, my per-hour labor costs, I can assure you it would be considerably higher than if I did the exact same thing in China. My own per-hour labor cost assigned would be less because the cost of living is lower than the US. If you find this concept
"funny" then clearly you have no grasp of how international trade and business works. And so far, apart from you,for the reasons stated, I don't know anyone who would pay $180 for as knife hand made in China. We all know the alternatives on the market at that price range. China's success in the knife and cutlery field has been based on mass factory production and very competitive low cost. It has not been based on a history of knifemaking and global recognition and respect in that field. There are knifemakers and craftsmen in the US, Germany and Japan who have been making knives for decades some over 50-60 years. How long has Mr Chen been at it? Which major knife companies has he been with or made knives for for how may decades? I'm not saying that his knives are bad, they may well be the best thing since Rostfrei. But that is not the issue, and frankly I couldn't care less if he wanted $500 each for his knves. Good luck.

As for your exanple of Pashmina shawls, you think he is getting the major share of the $300-800 retail price in the U.S.?
Does he have his own distibution and marketung system? Furthermore, "Made in India" does not mean "Cheap shawls" in
the U.S. so the consumer reaction to them is entirely different from the issue of a knife made in China, albeit custom made
by hand, retailing for $180. In fact woven products made in India are fairly highly regarded by consumers worldwide.
 
G.E. Chen certainly seems to be a one-man operation. If that's the case his knives would be considered custom knives by most. I don't know of ANY custom knives in 3V going for anywhere near as low as $180. Heck, that's lower than the cost of most production blades in 3V. The only company I know that has options in that steel for less money is Cold Steel, and even that's a bit of a miss since those knives aren't actually available yet. I'm curious, since some seem to have appointed themselves arbiters of pricing, how much SHOULD a custom 3V field knife cost when it's made in China?
 
No person can answer that. How much SHOULD it cost can only be determined by the market. If the knives fly off the shelves at $180 each then it is priced right. If we see them dropping retaii price in a given time span, like a year, or if the dealers decide
to drop the product due to poor sales, then it's not. Just because a knife is "custom" doesn't automatically make that knife worth
much more than a factory knife. One, there are some very good factory knives, Two, WHO the custom maker is determines the
price, not that its "custom", There are had made "custom" knives made in Pakistan that aren't worth anything. Then there are original
custom RW Loveless knives that command $5-6,000. So I have to wonder, who is G.E.Chen? What is his background?
 
"Copying" is a very interesting subject.

(That is all I remember about the lecture - but the conclusion is that humans wouldn't have advanced to where we are today without copying and yes, stealing technology from each other - and that it still serves a useful purpose today.)

And I agree - the G.E.Chen looks nice -


Eric
 
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