(G.E. Chen knives) Maplegear is a direct copy of the Knifeart website!

I found G.E, Chen's own descritipn of himself on another forum, post dated March 2014:

"I'm a manufacturer. In the past 12 years I sold US made knives here in china(no couterfeit at all, never). I'm many US custom knife maker's dealer in china. About 4-5 year ago I decided to do my own design. Yes I'm a seller, But I am also a knife lover. In the past 4-5 years, I learn to design, milling ,CNC, heat treating, etc. I can't do it myself, But I know.
Unfortunately, I can't sell knives to the collectors one by one, due to chinese laws. My business is small, It's an one-man company, always my production is 300-500 per batch. That's why I posted this thread in Production Forum. I don't want to break any rules here, but I really want to show my knives. These two are protos of my new design. Production knives are not ready. Infact, these two are both for test. The black micarta one is now test by other collectors here. I confess I'm looking for dealers. "

So he is has been a knife dealer/importer in China for 12 years and has been designing knives and learned knifemaking in the past 4-5 years.
 
snippy said:
"Copying" is a very interesting subject.

(That is all I remember about the lecture - but the conclusion is that humans wouldn't have advanced to where we are today without copying and yes, stealing technology from each other - and that it still serves a useful purpose today.)

And I agree - the G.E.Chen looks nice -


Eric
Click to expand...

You remember the lecture incorrectly.
It's not 'copying' in definition that advances anything, it's taking an existing design and improving on it.

There is a huge difference......
 
KenHash said:
No person can answer that. How much SHOULD it cost can only be determined by the market. If the knives fly off the shelves at $180 each then it is priced right. If we see them dropping retaii price in a given time span, like a year, or if the dealers decide
to drop the product due to poor sales, then it's not. Just because a knife is "custom" doesn't automatically make that knife worth
much more than a factory knife. One, there are some very good factory knives, Two, WHO the custom maker is determines the
price, not that its "custom", There are had made "custom" knives made in Pakistan that aren't worth anything. Then there are original
custom RW Loveless knives that command $5-6,000. So I have to wonder, who is G.E.Chen? What is his background?
Click to expand...

So you want the market to determine the price, but the retail price is also too high? You're not being consistent.

You wanted to know why it doesn't cost less since it's made in China.

I pointed out it DOES cost less than any US made offerings.

Which brings us back to my original question, how much less do you think it should cost?
 
Insipid Moniker said:
So you want the market to determine the price, but the retail price is also too high? You're not being consistent.

You wanted to know why it doesn't cost less since it's made in China.

I pointed out it DOES cost less than any US made offerings.

Which brings us back to my original question, how much less do you think it should cost?
Click to expand...

OF COURSE it costs less than any equivalent US offerings.Why? For the all the reasons I have already stated, the cost of
everything from engery to materials to labor, as assigned based on cost of living, is lower in China than in all developed countries.
I have already answered your question. If a factory made knife of this type in the U.S. costs $200 and it's reasonable that a
custim made one may cost double that, ie; $400, since I have seen well made Chinese factory made knives retail for $40 in
the US, double that would be $80.00. Add some more because 3V needs to be imported, and we can say $100.
This is still far from $180.- This is my personal opinion. If you feel this is a good price for this knife feel free to go buy one.
 
KenHash said:
I found G.E, Chen's own descritipn of himself on another forum, post dated March 2014:

"I'm a manufacturer. In the past 12 years I sold US made knives here in china(no couterfeit at all, never). I'm many US custom knife maker's dealer in china. About 4-5 year ago I decided to do my own design. Yes I'm a seller, But I am also a knife lover. In the past 4-5 years, I learn to design, milling ,CNC, heat treating, etc. I can't do it myself, But I know.
Unfortunately, I can't sell knives to the collectors one by one, due to chinese laws. My business is small, It's an one-man company, always my production is 300-500 per batch. That's why I posted this thread in Production Forum. I don't want to break any rules here, but I really want to show my knives. These two are protos of my new design. Production knives are not ready. Infact, these two are both for test. The black micarta one is now test by other collectors here. I confess I'm looking for dealers. "

So he is has been a knife dealer/importer in China for 12 years and has been designing knives and learned knifemaking in the past 4-5 years.
Click to expand...

There you go. Sometimes he even partners with a US maker to produce one of their designs.........*ahem*

Also, I can verify that his steel is shipped from the US to China, considering I've been on the phone with B-U personally getting prices on sheets of M390.......

If my prototype is any indication of the quality of his other pieces, he turns out some amazing pieces. Seriously good knives.
 
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KenHash said:
OF COURSE it costs less than any equivalent US offerings.Why? For the all the reasons I have already stated, the cost of
everything from engery to materials to labor, as assigned based on cost of living, is lower in China than in all developed countries.
I have already answered your question. If a factory made knife of this type in the U.S. costs $200 and it's reasonable that a
custim made one may cost double that, ie; $400, since I have seen well made Chinese factory made knives retail for $40 in
the US, double that would be $80.00. Add some more because 3V needs to be imported, and we can say $100.
This is still far from $180.- This is my personal opinion. If you feel this is a good price for this knife feel free to go buy one.
Click to expand...

All this is formed from stigma and simple jealousy. If people want to pay $180 for a custom chinese knife then it means it's worth that much. How is that any different than us? And if you honestly think living conditions/cost of living here is much higher here then you must be stuck in the past. My brother goes to China for business and he can attest to the fact that their cities and suburbs are something we wish we could have. I can also buy high quality knives made here such as kershaws or US spydercos for sub $100, so does that mean at most we should charge $200?
The double standard run high here when it comes to anything not from the U.S. or Western Europe. And when others do better than us, we must put them down/belittle them. We should try to improve our own game.
 
Seilu said:
All this is formed from stigma and simple jealousy. If people want to pay $180 for a custom chinese knife then it means it's worth that much. How is that any different than us? And if you honestly think living conditions/cost of living here is much higher here then you must be stuck in the past. My brother goes to China for business and he can attest to the fact that their cities and suburbs are something we wish we could have. I can also buy high quality knives made here such as kershaws or US spydercos for sub $100, so does that mean at most we should charge $200?
The double standard run high here when it comes to anything not from the U.S. or Western Europe. And when others do better than us, we must put them down/belittle them. We should try to improve our own game.
Click to expand...

"Stigma and jealously" of what exactly? I'm glad you "brother" has been to China for business. So have I myself over
the last 15 years. Ask your brother what's behind those brand new highrise builldings that were built in record time,
with people questioning the safety, and how that property was secured by literally throwing old folks out of their homes
because it was a "governent decision" to modernize. Did he tell you aout he air quality as well? Don't tell me about rising manufacturing costs in China, that's something that's affected me personally. But don't think even with he rise in costs over the past decade that they are anywhere near the west, even today.
As for your point with the Kershaws, what it it exactly? Did ou understand what I wrote? If a factory production knife which is made in the US is $100 retail I am saying that no one would be surprised if the very same cost $200 if it were custom hand made in the US. In other words, twice as much.
No one is belittling anybody, the knife/cutlery industry is a business. We started with nearly all knives being made in he United States. Then when that became too expensive, German knives, then Italian ones were imported. When that became too expemsive Japanese knives were imported. When that became too expensive Chinese knives were imported.
Do you understand that the cost of manufacturing, which is lnked directly to the economy ad cost of living in the that country is the driving force behind internationa trade patterns? Do you understand that China holds, even today, a huge cost advantage over western nations?
Anyway the subject is becoming boring real fast, that I consider $180 for this knife to be excessive is my personal opinion. Whether that'd true or not will be determined by it's sales success. Fact is that the price is retail set by the Dealer, so the Maker Mr Chen may be gettng far less than that. If you think $180 is a god price go for it.
 
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KenHash said:
OF COURSE it costs less than any equivalent US offerings.Why? For the all the reasons I have already stated, the cost of
everything from engery to materials to labor, as assigned based on cost of living, is lower in China than in all developed countries.
I have already answered your question. If a factory made knife of this type in the U.S. costs $200 and it's reasonable that a
custim made one may cost double that, ie; $400, since I have seen well made Chinese factory made knives retail for $40 in
the US, double that would be $80.00. Add some more because 3V needs to be imported, and we can say $100.
This is still far from $180.- This is my personal opinion. If you feel this is a good price for this knife feel free to go buy one.
Click to expand...

So, in short, you have no idea what the costs involved actually are and you're assuming costs of doing small batches are a linear increase despite location differences, make no real allowance for export or marketing of the finished product, have not taken into account that softer steels may be stamped while something like 3V must be lasered, waterjet cut or cut using EDM and the increased wear resistance wil mean a huge increase in the time spent machining the blades, which means increased wear and tear on the machinery itself and a sharp increase in labor costs.

If you want to say, "I wouldn't pay that much for this blade." That's all good. Totally true statement.

When you get into, "This blade shouldn't cost that much," if you're like 99.9% of us you're blowing smoke because you have nowhere near the knowledge required to say that with any authority whatsoever.
 
KenHash said:
Sorry but I disagree. The cost of manufacturing just about anything in China is lower than in the US/EU/Japan. Whether a product is produced in a factory or hand made one by one makes no difference. The labor cost in a factory in China is low because the cost of living is low, not because they are uneducated. One person hand making knives in China also has lower living costs.
A handmade knife made in China will not cost as much to make as if the same knife were made in the U.S.
And premium materials do not cost the same everywhere. Sure a hand made in China wull cost more than a factory made in China because there is no economy of scale. But by how much?
Click to expand...

Costs of manufacturing in China are actually rising. The concept is simple - when many consumers/importers want Chinese-made goods, the increase in demand will result in increased prices. A lot of companies are actually turning towards cheaper imports from other nearby south/southeast Asian countries, however these generally aren't high-tech items, usually textiles and simple household goods.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
So, in short, you have no idea what the costs involved actually are and you're assuming costs of doing small batches are a linear increase despite location differences, make no real allowance for export or marketing of the finished product, have not taken into account that softer steels may be stamped while something like 3V must be lasered, waterjet cut or cut using EDM and the increased wear resistance wil mean a huge increase in the time spent machining the blades, which means increased wear and tear on the machinery itself and a sharp increase in labor costs.

If you want to say, "I wouldn't pay that much for this blade." That's all good. Totally true statement.

When you get into, "This blade shouldn't cost that much," if you're like 99.9% of us you're blowing smoke because you have nowhere near the knowledge required to say that with any authority whatsoever.
Click to expand...

I alread stated from the outset that I wouldn't pay that price. I merely explained why and then got the crowd who appears to have no comprehension of global trade and economics arguing that the countrry of origin has no bearing on manufacturing costs which is obviously untrue.

If Mick Strider sold a knife he made in the US for $400 I doubt anyone would have a problem with that. Now, if Mick Strider introduced a
model that he had made in Pakistan and wanted the same $400, would everyone think that makes sense? No, ONLY because we all know
that the costs involved in making a knife there do not equal that of the U.S.
Are you going to tell everyone who says that the Pakistani made knife should be priced less don't have the knowledge or authority to
say that the knife "shouldn't cost that much"?
 
KenHash said:
I alread stated from the outset that I wouldn't pay that price. I merely explained why and then got the crowd who appears to have no comprehension of global trade and economics arguing that the countrry of origin has no bearing on manufacturing costs which is obviously untrue.

If Mick Strider sold a knife he made in the US for $400 I doubt anyone would have a problem with that. Now, if Mick Strider introduced a
model that he had made in Pakistan and wanted the same $400, would everyone think that makes sense? No, ONLY because we all know
that the costs involved in making a knife there do not equal that of the U.S.
Are you going to tell everyone who says that the Pakistani made knife should be priced less don't have the knowledge or authority to
say that the knife "shouldn't cost that much"?
Click to expand...

I think at this point, you should actually "handle" a G.E.Chen, and decide for yourself if its worth $180 or not. That would be the best outcome of this thread. Worth being a highly personal figure (just like any Mick Strider knife is worthless to me). And if you don't wish to buy a GEChen, please send me your shipping address, and I'll ship one your way - just pay the return shipping back to me. :-)
 
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$180 for a semi-custom, 4" 3V blade, accolades from other forum members, Kydex sheath, and Micarta handles??? Sold!!!

The only thing this post has succeeded in doing is convincing me to make my purchase. Can't find any other new, 3V fixed blades of that size for that price.
 
Not a copy as far as I can see. THey look like nice knives. If you look hard enough any knife can look like a copy of another. As others have said.

retzius said:
I found a knife I liked on the GP Knives website from a maker called G.E. Chen:

http://www.gpknives.com/gechenduty3vblackmicartachoilblackblade.html

I searched for the maker but only found a link to their website at:

http://www.maplegear.com

weird... so I check out the website and it is a direct copy of the Knifeart.com website... just with different pictures!

http://www.knifeart.com

This is why I still can't buy some of these Chinese knives. Some of the designs look great and the materials and F&F look very nice, but if you can't even spend the time to build your own website and just COPY another website you have instantly lost my business.

Its amusing but pretty ridiculous to be honest... doesn't say much for their business ethics
Click to expand...
 
I'm looking to get one of these. A man's work is a man's work. I don't care what country he is from. The knives look good as well as the specs.
 
I don't post much but I do have something to add to this discussion. This Chinese website has stolen and modified some of our custom made images and layout. Our website is not a "template" it is completely custom and designed/programmed in the USA.

Larry Connelley

Co-Owner, KnifeArt.com
 
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