gangsta965084 backs out of trade after committing

[ooitzoo]

Good afternoon folks.

I have a bit of a quandary. I recently entered into a trade with another forum member (I will leave out names for now as I don't want to call anyone out without getting opinions first.) We agreed on the trade terms and shipping method. Since this member has a low feedback count and we were trading some higher value items, I asked that he send first (also, I got a bit of a weird feeling from him as he couldn't properly give me information on his end of the deal); I did this in the first or second email response. This was fine at the outset.

Then he started sending me messages to the effect of "I will send tomorrow and you should too". I didn't fully understand what that meant so I made it clear that I would wait until his end was in my hand to send out my end. I made this clear at least 4 separate times in email (very politely I might add.) This morning I got an email saying something to the effect of "your end is going out today". In order to mitigate delays and to show good faith I started putting his information into USPS.com in order to have everything ready to ship when his end arrived.

About 40 minutes later, I received an email saying "thanks, I'll just keep my end". Note that this was after he wrote to say that his end was going out later that morning.

Now, no trade took place and I am not economically out anything here. I never printed the label as I had to take the dog out and I never sent anything as we agreed that he'd send first. However, I took one of my items down in the sale forum and the trade forum. This isn't a big deal as I can repost them but it does put me out some time and the effort of posting. Personally, if I agree to a trade then I honor that commitment. Up until now, with very very few exceptions (one in fact), this is how folks seem to operate on this forum.

Am I being overly sensitive? Is this something that I should bring up to GBU (e.g. post name, email exchanges, etc.)? What do folks around here think of this situation?

TL; DR

* I agreed on a trade with a forum member
* We agreed that he send first
* After telling me that the item was going out today he backed out about 40 minutes later
* I want to know if this is something I should post on GBU with all relevant information

Thanks in advance guys.

EDIT: given the response that I am getting I've decided to post up the other traders information. I will also post up our email exchanges without comment. I am not doing this to shame the other trader or punish him but rather to get it on record and see if a trend arises with this guy.:thumbdn:

 

[lemmuhj]

I'd just blow it off as a flaky deal.

 

[rycen]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...feedback-on-a-no-sale?p=10400591#post10400591

 

[RevDevil]

There is nothing to post, nothing happened, no one is out anything is that correct? People have the right to cancel a pending deal if they feel comcomfortable enough, especially if it is someone new here. Just be grateful that no one is out any cash or items and move along. Seems like people are concerning themselves far too much with these things, in my opinion anyway.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

I'd just blow it off as a flaky deal.

I agree with this, and I'd probably refuse to deal with him in the future.

 

[ooitzoo]

I'd just blow it off as a flaky deal.

I was looking at it this way too but then I thought it might be an early sign of a scammer or a pattern forming with this guy. I mean, if someone habitually does this sort of thing isn't that something folks should know before dealing with him. The "bad feeling" I got was when he got details of his end wrong and couldn't provide me with very basic information.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...feedback-on-a-no-sale?p=10400591#post10400591

I know that I can. I am wondering if I should.

There is nothing to post, nothing happened, no one is out anything is that correct? People have the right to cancel a pending deal if they feel comcomfortable enough, especially if it is someone new here. Just be grateful that no one is out any cash or items and move along.

In principle, I agree with this. However, as mentioned above, if its a pattern or an early sign of bad conduct, is that something folks should be interested in?

 

[1SHOT1KILL]

That is a bit of information that I'd like in order to avoid situations like yours. I am relatively new to bladeforums with VERY little feedback. This is in part due to the fact that not everyone leaves me feedback when I buy or trade and I don't make a big deal of it. Where I come from (N.E.) a person is only as good as their word. If your word is void then you have nothing. It may sound harsh but I'm an old fashioned, a handshake will seal the deal kinda guy. I appreciate the chances that members here took with me and would never do anything to jeopardize that trust. To that end I feel that members should man/woman up...sack/ovary up and be upfront and honest with their intentions. You trader should have done this before he wasted your time. Being out money sucks, but it can be replaced. (I realize you're not out money, just illustrating a point...) Time can never be replaced. There are far too many honest, willing and upstanding people here to deal with, without having to deal with people that may or may not be unscrupulous. There is a thread floating around here lately that involves just that, and people are out real nice knives and money! Maybe if a post similar to this one was started when that particular poster was starting his shenanigans things wouldn've gotten as far as they have. I'm not looking to crucify anyone, but a stern warning isn't out of place. If you commit to something...follow through with it. Maybe the bottom line is "what is your reputation worth to you"? (not you in particular...just a general "you")

 

[RevDevil]

Ooitzoo! Yes on the patterns Aspect, but unless there is evidence that this is not a one time event the other person should be given the benefit of the doubt. Again, this is how I would treat the matter, I respect that you may have contrary ideas because you just experienced it. In my dealings I always give people the benefit of the doubt, or try to until there is no doubt. I've not been burned yet, but I have had some flakers commit to buy something and then back out last minute. I just try and chalk it up to unforseen expenses or even last minute overwhelming buyers remorse. In either case I can take a little inconvenience, especially from newbies. People make mistakes and I guess I am a bit more forgiving than others, because I can relate.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

Does anyone think it would be OK to post "SoAndSo backed out on the trade, knife is available again" in your own thread? It seems like that would be a good idea in case someone wants to search the username. They'd see that, and if there was several of those posts they'd have info to base a decision on.

 

[Kyui Su Kim]

I would be interested, especially if this is a trend.

 

[ooitzoo]

That is a bit of information that I'd like in order to avoid situations like yours. I am relatively new to bladeforums with VERY little feedback. This is in part due to the fact that not everyone leaves me feedback when I buy or trade and I don't make a big deal of it. Where I come from (N.E.) a person is only as good as their word. If your word is void then you have nothing. It may sound harsh but I'm an old fashioned, a handshake will seal the deal kinda guy. I appreciate the chances that members here took with me and would never do anything to jeopardize that trust. To that end I feel that members should man/woman up...sack/ovary up and be upfront and honest with their intentions. You trader should have done this before he wasted your time. Being out money sucks, but it can be replaced. (I realize you're not out money, just illustrating a point...) Time can never be replaced. There are far too many honest, willing and upstanding people here to deal with, without having to deal with people that may or may not be unscrupulous. There is a thread floating around here lately that involves just that, and people are out real nice knives and money! Maybe if a post similar to this one was started when that particular poster was starting his shenanigans things wouldn've gotten as far as they have. I'm not looking to crucify anyone, but a stern warning isn't out of place. If you commit to something...follow through with it. Maybe the bottom line is "what is your reputation worth to you"? (not you in particular...just a general "you")

I tend to agree with this sentiment. At the end of the day, we are all guys behind computers. So if your word holds no value and you can arbitrarily decide to nullify your obligations then what are we left with? It makes buying/selling/trading on the forum near impossible.

Ooitzoo! Yes on the patterns Aspect, but unless there is evidence that this is not a one time event the other person should be given the benefit of the doubt. Again, this is how I would treat the matter, I respect that you may have contrary ideas because you just experienced it. In my dealings I always give people the benefit of the doubt, or try to until there is no doubt. I've not been burned yet, but I have had some flakers commit to buy something and then back out last minute. I just try and chalk it up to unforseen expenses or even last minute overwhelming buyers remorse. In either case I can take a little inconvenience, especially from newbies. People make mistakes and I guess I am a bit more forgiving than others, because I can relate.

I can see your point; why go thru the hassle and why potentially hurt someone's ability to trade for something that is of no economic loss to me? On the other hand, how do you determine a pattern/trend unless folks stand up and say that it's happening? I can see your point with regard to benefit of the doubt but when someone agrees no less then 4 times to a trade then says he's going to the PO and THEN backs out its hard to see this being anything other then a broken promise.

Does anyone think it would be OK to post "SoAndSo backed out on the trade, knife is available again" in your own thread? It seems like that would be a good idea in case someone wants to search the username. They'd see that, and if there was several of those posts they'd have info to base a decision on.

I thought about that but then I figured I'd rather not have the negative sentiment in my trade/sale threads. GBU is for posts of this sort so I think it should go here if no where else.

I would be interested, especially if this is a trend.

Let's see if more folks agree. I want to be sure that I am not being overly critical/sensitive in this matter.

 

[TOMBSTONE]

makes me wonder if he was going to really ship his end,he was so worried about your end.If he is a newer member,I'd be suspicious if it was more than just a change of his mind.

 

[ooitzoo]

makes me wonder if he was going to really ship his end,he was so worried about your end.If he is a newer member,I'd be suspicious if it was more than just a change of his mind.

Sorry, I don't follow...

There were some "irregularities" in his communication with regard to the knife but he seemed fine with the trade as stated until the very end.

 

[1SHOT1KILL]

Sorry, I don't follow...

There were some "irregularities" in his communication with regard to the knife but he seemed fine with the trade as stated until the very end.

Actually...I do follow...your trader was concerned with you shipping, so he wanted to see if he promised to ship...hoping maybe you would ship at the same time. Even though you clearly stated that this would not happen. If you shipped, anticipating his shipment, he may have not shipped at all. You would then be out a knife. I realize this sounds convoluted and paranoid...but it makes sense to me in my own little paranoid convoluted world...

 

[zrfunited]

Unfortunately this seems to be the price of doing business. No one is out anything so it really is a "no harm, no foul" situation, although I totally sympathize with your situation. The other unfortunate side of this is that if this individual is a scammer, someone will have to get burned before any of this can really be brought to light. I had a noob enter into a trade with me a while back where he was to send first. A week after we had agreed that it was a deal he still hadn't sent anything and after nine or so days I finally got word from him that he didn't want to trade. It was agitating, but that same guy now has several successful trades under his belt. He was just new and probably got a bit overzealous and in over his head.

 

[Lone_Wolfe]

I would be interested, especially if this is a trend.

But how would you know it was a trend if everyone he flaked on was waiting to see if there was a trend before they posted? Catch 22 here.

 

[SavageSmurf]

Its good that you're not out anything. But I understand how the OP feels. Once you make a deal, the terms are set. End of story. An online handshake is just as important to honor as one performed in person. You can't just say "I changed my mind" and forget that you agreed to do something. I guess its just a matter of personal integrity. I put an I'll take it on an item once, then soon after found something Id be a lot happier with, for a better price. But I made a commitment, so I honored it. Turns out I'm pretty happy with the knife I received, and have the peace of mind knowing I did the right thing. But.. I suppose "the right thing" is subject to vary from person to person. lol rant over, Im glad you didnt lose any money on the deal bud.

 

[RevDevil]

Its good that you're not out anything. But I understand how the OP feels. Once you make a deal, the terms are set. End of story. An online handshake is just as important to honor as one performed in person. You can't just say "I changed my mind" and forget that you agreed to do something. I guess its just a matter of personal integrity. I put an I'll take it on an item once, then soon after found something Id be a lot happier with, for a better price. But I made a commitment, so I honored it. Turns out I'm pretty happy with the knife I received, and have the peace of mind knowing I did the right thing. But.. I suppose "the right thing" is subject to vary from person to person. lol rant over, Im glad you didnt lose any money on the deal bud.

So a person is not supposed to be understanding if the other party changes their mind no matter what? Good to know your stance on things.

 

[ooitzoo]

Actually...I do follow...your trader was concerned with you shipping, so he wanted to see if he promised to ship...hoping maybe you would ship at the same time. Even though you clearly stated that this would not happen. If you shipped, anticipating his shipment, he may have not shipped at all. You would then be out a knife. I realize this sounds convoluted and paranoid...but it makes sense to me in my own little paranoid convoluted world...

Haha. Sorry, I didn't even think of that. I guess it kind of makes sense, ask for same time send and then screw the other guy over.

Unfortunately this seems to be the price of doing business. No one is out anything so it really is a "no harm, no foul" situation, although I totally sympathize with your situation. The other unfortunate side of this is that if this individual is a scammer, someone will have to get burned before any of this can really be brought to light. I had a noob enter into a trade with me a while back where he was to send first. A week after we had agreed that it was a deal he still hadn't sent anything and after nine or so days I finally got word from him that he didn't want to trade. It was agitating, but that same guy now has several successful trades under his belt. He was just new and probably got a bit overzealous and in over his head.

Yea, I just think this kind of thing should be discouraged. The place to do that is GBU.

But how would you know it was a trend if everyone he flaked on was waiting to see if there was a trend before they posted? Catch 22 here.

Yep. How else do you determine a trend?

So a person is not supposed to be understanding if the other party changes their mind no matter what? Good to know your stance on things.

Come on man. That's not what he said. He's saying that once someone agrees to a trade/sale they should honor their commitments. Can you really say that you disagree with that?

 

[magnumb]

If it just 'doesn't seem or feel right' is akin (IMHO) to "if it sounds too good to be true", however..........not always. When you're the seller and either feeling takes hold, at least in that position you're in the cat-bird seat (send funds first before the item gets shipped). Not so much as with trading and/or as a buyer.

I agree with 1SHOT, in that, it would be alot nicer if feedback were given in each transaction, but obviously that doesn't and won't occur unless mandated by forum rules. I have also had some 20+ great transactions as a buyer and have a total of 3 very positive feedbacks. Essentially, perusing one's feedback record (unless remarkably horrendous), offers little insight into who we're dealing wih on most occasions. Even when a member has a boat load of positive feedback, as can be clearly seen in many of the "Good, Bad and Ugly" threads, that is obviously not a true and lasting compass of ANY member here on BF.....unfortunately, albeit, it is still the best 'guide' currently available to us, sans knowing that person quite well from previous transactions.............and even then it's a crap-shoot, at times.

In the OP's case........not exactly "no harm, no foul", but neither is it so egregious as to totally discount the subject of this thread as a potential buyer in the future. He wasn't as forthcoming as I'd like to see or deal with in that particular/specific transaction, but his actions didn't rise to that of many others who have also been the subject of negative posts in such threads. 'Course, we may never know if the OP's 'guts' are right in this case, 'cuz the other trader never got the opportunity to prove his worth either way.........which is somewhat telling.....IMHO. I would feel somewhat relieved that I hadn't lost anything but a bit of time and postings in this matter, rather than try to go through with a transaction with someone that I didn't fully trust.....be it real or imagined.

I'd vote to move on and appreciate that our first and last line of defense in such matters may very well be our 'innerds'. Lord knows we can't base our decisions totally on feedback and/or post counts.