Bad Ganzofan

[lieferung]

I was initially skeptical of OP but I think the grind line proves it, it's a fake. It's very fortunate that OP got his money back, Ganzofan I think that cop lied to you maybe that's why he bundled it. At least he didn't rip you off for a full price Civilian.

 

[mb>]

Apologizing here will do nothing to alleviate this.
Reach out to a mod and let him know the situation.
Also, maybe give the rules a quick perusal.

Are you referring to this one? Money did change hands here.

If a deal did not happen, there is no iTrader Feedback to leave. Sorry if you were inconvenienced, but life is full of disappointments. As long as you're not out any items or money hasn't changed hands, move along. Consider improving the terms of your sales threads / read the sellers terms carefully in order to avoid this before buying.

 

[madcap_magician]

I was initially skeptical of OP but I think the grind line proves it, it's a fake. It's very fortunate that OP got his money back, Ganzofan I think that cop lied to you maybe that's why he bundled it. At least he didn't rip you off for a full price Civilian.

I'm not sure I'd go that far. Honestly a lot of fakes make it into the market but low-information knife buyers buying from Amazon or eBay, and lots of cops buy decent knives without actually knowing much about them or being part of the knife community.

 

[mb>]

On the intent subject, he either knew what he was doing or he didn't. You can never prove this one way or the other. This is why I stated in the OP, I hoped to just ensure this knife is never offered for sale again.

And I have a proposal posted to settle the question 100% if the pictures don't do it.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I am not debating fake or real I didn't handle the knife and I definately am not an expert on Spydercos ... so if it seemed I said you were wrong wanting a refund it wasn't intended that way.

The two big issues I see were as it read you said "I'll take it" ... and then even before the knife got there you tried to cancel the deal ... when its always best if you have any questions or doubts ask questions and ask for more pictures or more detailed pictures of issues you may notice BEFORE you type that I'll take it.

And then the other is just a rule on the forums to stop flaming posts when the deal wasn't even completed the knife was returned and money refunded.

So it's not an attack on you or the seller on my part just trying to give another view from how it all looks from the outside without having my emotions in it ... and I've been in deals that took some time and at times I was nervous but those were years ago and communication these days is so easy and saves alot for both sides.

The other is just a reminder to read the forum rules when you join any forum or group.

Hope it all works out good for you both to be honest hate seeing any bad blood or bad intentions on here its a great place with lots of great people.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

And if someone tries to sell fake items of course it's good to let the members know ... but I would reccomend contacting a mod and let them get involved to see if the seller knew or has past issues or how they want it to proceed ...

 

[-Corey-]

I've never returned anything through Paypal, so part of our dialogue was me trying to figure out how to cover the risk on my end. ALL of the risk was on my end. So disputing the transaction was the only way to document the return and cover my risk.

I didn't flip flop on accepting the settlement offer. FOUR DAYS later, and still no money, and more than 24 hours after accepting the offer, and still no money, I called Paypal to ask how long I was supposed to wait. The nice lady took a quick look and closed it out right then and there for the full value per their policy. I mean you could have taken 2 minutes on Monday to be done with this. That's what I would have done. I gave you 2 days with no communication, nothing. I had to continue to initiate here.

The best advice I think I can give you is to familiarize yourself with all the ins and outs of Paypal, buyer protection, seller protection, time frame for disputes, return process, credit card charge backs, etc. As long as you paid the proper way (goods & services), then there was minimal risk for you in this transaction. Seems like you were nervous and impatient throughout the entire transaction.

 

[mb>]

Time to knock out some chores. I'm not ghosting. I'll check back later and respond to questions.

 

[brancron]

I just want to chime in and say I think that some people may be misinterpreting the rule on when feedback can or cannot be left. The rule states:

If a deal did not happen, there is no iTrader Feedback to leave. Sorry if you were inconvenienced, but life is full of disappointments. As long as you're not out any items or money hasn't changed hands, move along.

In this case (without commenting on the merits of either side), a deal did happen. The knife was paid for and shipped. Money has "changed hands." A later reversal of the deal does not alter that.

Note that the rule used to be more ambiguous. The second part used to state "As long as you're not out any items or money, move along," or something to that effect. The problem with this earlier wording was that it could be interpreted to mean that you weren't allowed to leave feedback in a situation where a seller took your money, intentionally never shipped the knife (i.e. defrauded you), and forced you to resort to PayPal for a refund. Since you weren't "out any money" at the end of the day, no negative feedback allowed, even when someone scammed you.

This was pretty quickly understood to be an inadvertent omission in the feedback rules, so the rule was amended to try to clarify that when money changes hands, feedback is allowed, even in situations where the buyer or seller is eventually "made whole."

 

[palonej]

You are not out any money. You got a refund, and he got his knife back. No one is out anything. Hence, there was no deal. Not a perfect tool, but those are the rules.
Again, reach out to a Mod.
Corey brings up a good point, as usual. You were, at no time, at risk of not getting your money back.....IF you paid G&S.

Are you referring to this one? Money did change hands here.

If a deal did not happen, there is no iTrader Feedback to leave. Sorry if you were inconvenienced, but life is full of disappointments. As long as you're not out any items or money hasn't changed hands, move along. Consider improving the terms of your sales threads / read the sellers terms carefully in order to avoid this before buying.

 

[palonej]

I am one of those people Bran!!
Thanks for clearing this up, because I was sure if you walk away with your money and seller walks away with the knife, no feedback can be left.
Ugh
Joe

I just want to chime in and say I think that some people may be misinterpreting the rule on when feedback can or cannot be left. The rule states:

In this case (without commenting on the merits of either side), a deal did happen. The knife was paid for and shipped. A later reversal of the deal does not change that.

Note that the rule used to be more ambiguous. The second part of it stated "As long as you're not out any items or money, move along," or something to that effect. The problem with this earlier wording was that it could be interpreted to mean that you weren't allowed to leave feedback in a situation where a seller took your money, intentionally never shipped the knife (i.e. defrauded you), and forced you to resort to PayPal for a refund. Since you weren't "out any money" at the end of the day, no negative feedback allowed, even when someone scammed you.

This was pretty quickly understood to be an inadvertent omission in the feedback rules, so the rule was amended to try to clarify that when money changes hands, feedback is allowed, even in situations where the buyer or seller is eventually "made whole."

 

[sharp_edge]

let ne see. selling a fake spyderco and try to blame the buyer. what am I mising? BTW, yes - the name matters in this case, I mean GanzoFAN...

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I am one of those people Bran!!
Thanks for clearing this up, because I was sure if you walk away with your money and seller walks away with the knife, no feedback can be left.
Ugh
Joe

If that's been changed in the feedback rule then I guess I'm at fault on that also ...

 

[Gastonknife]

Not sure why the OP just didn't send the knife back for a refund. You can't expect to get your money back until you return it. PayPal has your back on that process so no risk for you. Sorry but you are totally unreasonable to think you should get your money back first. Quite a bit of this drama has been caused by the OP. As far as the knife goes, does the seller have a history of selling fakes? If not, seems like an honest mistake. Both parties are probably good folks (at least based on the facts at hand). Seller - you need to be more careful in th future (assuming it is a fake, which is still not confirmed) OP - just send it back, it's that simple and all the drama ends geez

 

[uxo2]

OP received a refund and still complains about it..

 

[Ganzofan]

I don't think you read my PayPal notes that I posted, it reads I noticed the tip issue I'm not happy about it and issued refund, read the timeline please, I issued refund offer even before I simply verbalized an observation about the tip

 

[Ganzofan]

Your not a store. He already thinks it's possibly a fake. So why trust you to refund.

We generally trust stores to refund.

You even said it was broken to deny his refund, if you got the knife back, why? Look how that looks on you in his perspective.

I issued a refund offer before I made that comment, read my PayPal log, it shows that and it also shows what I said which was "I'm not happy about the tip damage but I won't penalize you and has issued you a refund offer minus $4 shipping per original agreement" read my post before calling me out on something that's untrue please

 

[Ganzofan]

I'm not sure I'd go that far. Honestly a lot of fakes make it into the market but low-information knife buyers buying from Amazon or eBay, and lots of cops buy decent knives without actually knowing much about them or being part of the knife community.

Madcap, Ganzo doesn't sell any knife that are fake or try to pass their knife off as another brand. For you to pass judgement on someone's guilt or innocence simply based on their name is the same as passing judgement based on their color of skin or socioeconomic background, it is full with prejudice

 

[Sergeua]

Madcap, Ganzo doesn't sell any knife that are fake or try to pass their knife off as another brand. For you to pass judgement on someone's guilt or innocence simply based on their name is the same as passing judgement based on their color of skin or socioeconomic background, it is full with prejudice

What if I have a name like Fakeslover and sell you a fake civilian what are you going to think? To some people your name speaks same volume. Who's to blame? You, ganzo? You've been around look alikes too much and can't tell that spyderco is fake? Its 12 bucks and there are better fakes out there. Enjoy your negative feedback its how you learn. Op is in a clear to give you one. Rules have been followed here.

 

[PURPLEDC]

I'd want the refund before shipping the item back. It's almost always the case that if you send the knife back you never get the refund. So you then loose out completely. How is that a strange demand. That on top of the last poster said.

That is 100% untrue. If you pay via paypal and return the item you provide paypal the tracking number after you ship it. The refund comes AFTER you ship the knife back and is received. Also asking for the refund to be sent as a separate payment means the OP could have taken that payment in addition to the money via the paypal claim. I have filed numerous PP claims. And you NEVER get a refund before returning the item. Its not the same as a purchase. If this was F&F that would apply. But paying via Goods and services as long as you provide a tracking number and the knife went back to the address PP has on file you get your money back.