Gaucho knives and cuchillos criollos of South America

[RayseM]

You understand Dan "the further you move away from the equator the shorter your blade gets" is a metaphor. I'm sorry for my Northern Brothers.

 

[kamagong]

Very nice Christian !
What type of knife ( origin/brand) is the longer one ?

Thanks Dan. I didn't want to provide too much info initially because they aren't gaucho knives, but since you asked, that is a Tod Cutler Scottish dirk with a 15" blade. The little one is a bowie with only an 11" blade.

Yes, RayseM has the right idea that it is best to have a selection of criollo knives of varying sizes.
I thrive in the company of enablers

The folks around here are world-class enablers!!!

 

[Prester John]

I am the gaucho on the left with the shorter knife

Those gauchos need to grip a bandana (long one!) in their teeth--first one to let go loses.

 

[Prester John]

 

[hugofeynman]

Today I received my very much anticipated " Verijero" knife.

A work of art, handmade by @maxipescie, a very talented knifemaker in my beloved native country .

I am so very happy with it
It's so authentic, so traditional in every way !

The handle is "Urunday", a native wood to Argentina. The beautiful sheath is made by a partner master artisan using rawhide and the most traditional methods.

It feels just great to hold a little piece of one's native land in the hand !!!

The "Verijero" is a smaller, general purpose "gaucho" knife carried in the front "groin" area or "verijas" as gauchos would refer to this area.

Maxi's passion is in making traditional gaucho knives and it really shows.
It was a pleasure to communicate with him along the way. He kept me updated with photo updates

In the beginning

And then this shows up on my whatsapp

Look at those beautiful and uniform heat treatment colors!!!!

 

[kamagong]

I took another look at this picture and a couple of things stood out to me. First, I noticed the gauchos are barefoot. I'm amused that the gauchos kept their hats, but felt the need to take off their boots. Second, that is dark steel in their hands. THOSE ARE REAL KNIVES THEY'RE USING!!!



I could never make it as a gaucho. I don't know how you do it Dan, but I'd be tripping all over those tassels.

 

[oldmanwilly]

kamagong I think they're wearing "foal boots"

 

[CelloDan]

Those gauchos need to grip a bandana (long one!) in their teeth--first one to let go loses.

lol Vince, those gauchos look like rebels in need of a cause
Hard to believe that movie was released back in 1955.

Look at those beautiful and uniform heat treatment colors!!!!

Thanks for the comment and the likes

I took another look at this picture and a couple of things stood out to me. First, I noticed the gauchos are barefoot. I'm amused that the gauchos kept their hats, but felt the need to take off their boots. Second, that is dark steel in their hands. THOSE ARE REAL KNIVES THEY'RE USING!!!



I could never make it as a gaucho. I don't know how you do it Dan, but I'd be tripping all over those tassels.

kamagong I think they're wearing "foal boots"

View attachment 2165178

Gracias oldmanwilly
Yes they are wearing what is called "botas de potro".
The gauchos made them with the hide from the horse's hind legs. I had always thought of these boots as having the toes exposed however I am finding pictures now where the toes are covered as well.

I also noticed the gaucho on the left stepping over his clothing. It looks like a staged picture of the "esgrima criolla" or "creole fencing" and perhaps they did not noticed it until after the fact.

More on "Botas de Potro"

Practicing "Esgrima Criolla"

Video demonstration in the heart of Buenos Aires about esgrima criolla with " Poncho y Cuchillo"

 

[Jack Black]

On the topic of toughness it makes sense for the gaucho to need a tough knife as he would have used it for everything, from building shelter, eating, killing an animal and yes, perhaps the occasional knife fight as well for some of them.

That's why they use C70 to make Lambsfoot knives Dan!

Great thread

This Tod Cutler Rugger seems to have a similar blade

I had my eye on an old Gaucho knife I spotted in an antique shop in York, labelled as "a ceremonial dagger"! Unfortunately, it did not survive the pandemic. The only one I have is this in stainless

I was thinking of this thread, when I came across this knife, in my collection, the other day. At one time, everyone would have carried a knife, to use primarily for eating, but used for other things too, much the same as the Gauchos. This is a recreation of a Medieval knife of this type, smaller, but similar lines to the knives under discussion, but without their heroic pedigree of course

 

[CelloDan]

Great thread

This Tod Cutler Rugger seems to have a similar blade

Gracias Jack
Looks similar to the one kamagong showed us earlier

I had my eye on an old Gaucho knife I spotted in an antique shop in York, labelled as "a ceremonial dagger"! Unfortunately, it did not survive the pandemic. The only one I have is this in stainless

I am sorry you missed out on that old gaucho knife Jack !
Perhaps a similar one will surface one of these days ( and hopefully they don't label it "ceremonial dagger" lol )

Nice and intricate motif on the one you have.
As per Mr Domenech essay, the round bolster and the bolster cover or "button keeper" on the sheath would indicate it was perhaps destined for or came from Uruguay or Brazil

I was thinking of this thread, when I came across this knife, in my collection, the other day. At one time, everyone would have carried a knife, to use primarily for eating, but used for other things too, much the same as the Gauchos. This is a recreation of a Medieval knife of this type, smaller, but similar lines to the knives under discussion, but without their heroic pedigree of course

Yes, Mr Domenech refers in his essay to the many influences that likely carried over onto the puñal criollo from different countries, cultures and time periods.
I find it fascinating how what at first sight may look like a kitchen knife can be so rich in history.

Mr Domenech theorizes that the bowie and the gaucho knives are somehow related and wrote a book about it. Too bad it is out of print and used copies sell for several hundreds of dollars.

" A trip through the fascinating world of knives"
" From the Facon to the Bowie"

That's why they use C70 to make Lambsfoot knives Dan!

That's right
How did I not think of it !!!

That's it, the time has come to strap my HHB to my "Red Scorpion".

My Verijero will be standing close by for moral support having gone through it already

I'll leave you folks today with this photo that I found quite appealing.
(perhaps I'll need a longer knife one day )

 

[oldmanwilly]

Ok, here's a question to the thread at large:

I went to Argentina with my Dad and some friends when I was 18. While in Buenos Aires everyone chose to get a custom leather jacket. Naturally I chose to get a gaucho knife instead and picked this one out of a case in a shop somewhere downtown. I was drawn to the silver fittings, the black Guayacan handle, and the beautiful rawhide sheath. The blade was kind of awkwardly affixed to the handle and the silver bolster doesn't fit up evenly. Regardless, the blade is some kind of stainless that holds an edge pretty well. How would the collective wisdom in this thread rank this knife? Is it a decent example of modern manufactured criollos or is it nothing more than a tourist trinket? Is it a true Argentine design or is it more Uruguayan or Brazilian? I can't seem to find much information regarding the manufacturer of the blade, but at the very least the sheath is a fine example of craftsmanship (real rawhide with intricately woven stitching).

View attachment 2166526

 

[Jack Black]

Gracias Jack
Looks similar to the one kamagong showed us earlier

They were made by the same cutler, but are different patterns Dan This one was carried by Austrian peasants, used as a daily work knife, but also carried into battle

Like kamagong , I also have one of Tod's Scottish Dirks

I am sorry you missed out on that old gaucho knife Jack !
Perhaps a similar one will surface one of these days ( and hopefully they don't label it "ceremonial dagger" lol )

Considering the seller couldn't be bothered to research it, I found the price-tag excessive Dan, but hope to find a nice one at some point

Nice and intricate motif on the one you have.
As per Mr Domenech essay, the round bolster and the bolster cover or "button keeper" on the sheath would indicate it was perhaps destined for or came from Uruguay or Brazil

screened porch has one by the same maker I think Dan. I picked mine up from an antique shop for £10. I figured it was just a tourist piece at the time, I think it was labelled as a 'letter opener'! I note the handle and sheath have patinaed slightly, as low-grade silver or plating might, so only the blade is stainless. It has the 'bugle' mark of Eberles of Brazil

Yes, Mr Domenech refers in his essay to the many influences that likely carried over onto the puñal criollo from different countries, cultures and time periods.
I find it fascinating how what at first sight may look like a kitchen knife can be so rich in history.

Absolutely Dan, it is such a practical design! The first time I saw knives of this sort was in one of the Sheffield museums, and they were Spanish. They were on display for many decades, but sadly no more

Mr Domenech theorizes that the bowie and the gaucho knives are somehow related and wrote a book about it. Too bad it is out of print and used copies sell for several hundreds of dollars.

The same point was made in relation to the museum knives I mentioned above, which I remember finding quite fascinating.

" A trip through the fascinating world of knives"
" From the Facon to the Bowie"

Looks like a great read my friend

That's right
How did I not think of it !!!

That's it, the time has come to strap my HHB to my "Red Scorpion".

My Verijero will be standing close by for moral support having gone through it already

I'll leave you folks today with this photo that I found quite appealing.
(perhaps I'll need a longer knife one day )

LOL! Brilliant!

 

[kamagong]

I went to Argentina with my Dad and some friends when I was 18. While in Buenos Aires everyone chose to get a custom leather jacket. Naturally I chose to get a gaucho knife instead and picked this one out of a case in a shop somewhere downtown.

Well done. You truly belong here.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Ok, here's a question to the thread at large:

I went to Argentina with my Dad and some friends when I was 18. While in Buenos Aires everyone chose to get a custom leather jacket. Naturally I chose to get a gaucho knife instead and picked this one out of a case in a shop somewhere downtown. I was drawn to the silver fittings, the black Guayacan handle, and the beautiful rawhide sheath. The blade was kind of awkwardly affixed to the handle and the silver bolster doesn't fit up evenly. Regardless, the blade is some kind of stainless that holds an edge pretty well. How would the collective wisdom in this thread rank this knife? Is it a decent example of modern manufactured criollos or is it nothing more than a tourist trinket? Is it a true Argentine design or is it more Uruguayan or Brazilian? I can't seem to find much information regarding the manufacturer of the blade, but at the very least the sheath is a fine example of craftsmanship (real rawhide with intricately woven stitching).

View attachment 2166526
View attachment 2166527

I believe you have already provided the answer to the first question yourself. You mention that the fit and finish is not great, but the blade can hold an edge well, which I suppose allows us to say it's a mid-end, serviceable knife -- certainly more than a mere tourist trinket, as far as I'm concerned. And the sheath looks well made, so that should give it extra points as a package. I think two things can be true at once: a knife can be manufactured primarily for a tourist audience and yet be a well-made piece. As for the typology, though I'm not an expert, I've read several times that faceted, "square" bolsters like that are typical of Argentina.

 

[CelloDan]

went to Argentina with my Dad and some friends when I was 18. While in Buenos Aires everyone chose to get a custom leather jacket. Naturally I chose to get a gaucho knife instead and picked this one out of a case in a shop somewhere downtown.

That is so cool you visited Argentina with your Dad A trip like that at 18 years old is bound to be memorable !
Thank you for sharing the pictures of your criollo

I have not been back to Argentina since I left 33 years ago and as the years go by I find myself thinking and reminiscing more and more about my home country.

I am myself on a journey of discovery regarding gaucho knives and very much a novice about cuchillos criollos and knives in general to be honest.

I truly enjoy the few knives I have however I keep coming here to the porch because of the camaraderie and the opportunity to connect with folks and learn more about traditional sharp and pointy things

I fully agree with kamagong in that you had your priorities straight went you passed on the leather jacket and seeked out a knife instead

You mentioned that the knife holds and edge well so that takes care of the most important thing about it.
It is a useful and serviceable tool and as T Trubetzkoy pointed out "a knife can be manufactured primarily for a tourist audience and yet be a well-made piece"

The bolster is square so that would be typical of Argentina and the sheath is very traditional as well.

The handle is made of Guayacan, a tree that grows in Argentina so that is VERY nice I love wood and do some occasional woodturnings as a hobby.
I specifically requested a native wood as well when ordering my Verijero.

That leave us to the fit and finish of the handle parts. Even though is not very even and could benefit from a more precise fit is far from a trinket imo.
I tried to find out more about the brand and did not have much luck either.
I did find that they sell blade blanks like this one in some type of MOV steel.

Now, when my Mom when to visit Grandma in Argentina a few years ago she brought me an "authentic Argentine trinket" LOL
Check this out
Ready for an asado anyone

Based on what I've learned so far in my journey with cuchillos criollos I would personally look for the following in a knife:

1) Hand forged carbon steel blade by an artisan cutler from South America.
If this were not possible then I would look into a drop forged carbon steel model from local manufacturers traditionally associated with gaucho knives in Argentina such as Boker Arbolito. Bonus points +++ if I find a very old Arbolito blade or one from Herder, Joseph Rodgers and Sons Highly unlikely though as they are very prized.
2) Integrally forged bolster or "button"which reinforces and divides the blade from its tang. Square as in most of Argentina or round as in Uruguay, Brazil and the province of Entre Rios where I was born.
3) A "half-moon cut" or notch in the ricasso.
4) File marks on the spine would add a very nice traditional decorative touch.
5) Traditional sheath, be it leather or the beautiful and intricately decorated metal ones.

6) BONUS: Drink a few mates together with the knife maker while talking about knives

Thanks for sharing your criollo mi amigo, here is a mate
( btw, did you get to try it by any chance while overthere ? )

 

[oldmanwilly]

Thanks for your responses CelloDan and kamagong . I am glad I've got a decent knife that was pulled together from good elements, albeit somewhat haphazardly. I too lust after a handmade criollo fitting the requirements Dan listed.

I am currently drawn to these knives made by a Brazilian fellow named Westerlon:


I like everything about these except that I would prefer squared, Argentine style bolsters, a pinned or peened tang, and a traditional sheath with woven rawhide. I particularly like the shape and contours of the handles. They look like they would be comfortable in prolonged use and less likely to roll in the hand.

So many options with these knives, so little time.

 

[cbach8tw]

I like these I saw in the exchange awhile ago by Kaspary.

 

[cbach8tw]

Thanks for your responses CelloDan and kamagong . I am glad I've got a decent knife that was pulled together from good elements, albeit somewhat haphazardly. I too lust after a handmade criollo fitting the requirements Dan listed.

I am currently drawn to these knives made by a Brazilian fellow named Westerlon:
View attachment 2167545

I like everything about these except that I would prefer squared, Argentine style bolsters, a pinned or peened tang, and a traditional sheath with woven rawhide. I particularly like the shape and contours of the handles. They look like they would be comfortable in prolonged use and less likely to roll in the hand.

So many options with these knives, so little time.

can you tell us more about the maker? Has he ever sold anything here in the exchange? Thanks for showing his work. How long are Westerlon’s blade in the pic?

I am leaning toward the more useful size of about 4.5 to 6 inches would be effective for an all-round utility knife.

 

[RayseM]

I asked Maxi about making a square bolster rather than the round he seems to prefer. His reply was something to the effect - that's the way it is and some thing about the construction method making round preferable. I admit I was a bit confused (doesn't the stock start out square?) but assumed it was a translation issue. In any case, a little disappointedly, I am expecting a round bolster.

I much prefer that the details Maxi and other custom makers incorporate into their knives set them apart from what otherwise would appear to be just another brand of kitchen knife. No matter, the function of any well made knife and the elegant simplicity of the KASAPARAY or the WESTERION examples, I know that no one will ever confuse Maxi's creation with a HENKLES. Pretty is important too.

 

[oldmanwilly]

cbach8tw All I know is that Westerlon appears to be a Brazilian knifemaker who is not a BF member. He has a decently active Instagram account but I did not find a website for him. Unfortunately I don't have any details about the blades except that they are made from 52100.