Gaucho knives and cuchillos criollos of South America

[SwissHeritageCo]

Beautiful edge you put on that bad boy CelloDan , I still can't get over that stitch work on those sheaths!

 

[RayseM]

I will be cheering you guys on from the shores of Maine Dan. I loved our 6 days on the Rideau together.

 

[kamagong]

Dan. The entire package is breaking in nicely.

View attachment 2136024

Those stag Arbolitos look nice. I can't believe they're made with 440A though. I think I would have grabbed the 20cm version otherwise.

 

[CelloDan]

I'm enjoying watching the patina develop on your Verijero.

And those pics are making me very hungry! While tacos aren't a traditional Patagonian dish, my Arbolito "flexed" into taco prep duties with aplomb...

I am doing intermittent fasting today and the pic of those delicious tacos with your Arbolito almost made me break my fast ... seriously

Beautiful edge you put on that bad boy CelloDan , I still can't get over that stitch work on those sheaths!

Gracias amigo
Yes, the stitch work in my traditional sheath is certainly a highlight of the whole package.

I will be cheering you guys on from the shores of Maine Dan. I loved our 6 days on the Rideau together.

Gracias Ray. I enjoyed those 6 days as well ... and the "guide" in me wished we had gone for 7 days instead so as not to rush as much.

Dan. The entire package is breaking in nicely.



Those stag Arbolitos look nice. I can't believe they're made with 440A though. I think I would have grabbed the 20cm version otherwise.

Thank you Christian !

I checked the Boker Arbolito webpage ( from Argentina ).

The criollo knives are all listed as forged in Germany with carbon steel ( acero carbono )
The instructions for the knives go on to say that they coat them with some type of lacquer to prevent rust and that the end user should dissolve this protective layer with solvent and always oil the knife after each use and never store it in its sheath.

I also noticed that they do have another brand manufactured in China called "Boker Magnum" made with stainless steel that offers criollo type knives

A search of their website as to what type of "acero carbono" they use did not help however other sources seem to indicate that boker carbon steel is C75.

I did write to Boker Argentina and asked them what type of steel they use for their criollos and at what hardness
I am hoping they answer me.

 

[Hammer67]

I checked the Boker Arbolito webpage ( from Argentina ).

The criollo knives are all listed as forged in Germany with carbon steel ( acero carbono )
The instructions for the knives go on to say that they coat them with some type of lacquer to prevent rust and that the end user should dissolve this protective layer with solvent and always oil the knife after each use and never store it in its sheath.

I also noticed that they do have another brand manufactured in China called "Boker Magnum" made with stainless steel that offers criollo type knives

A search of their website as to what type of "acero carbono" they use did not help however other sources seem to indicate that boker carbon steel is C75.

I did write to Boker Argentina and asked them what type of steel they use for their criollos and at what hardness
I am hoping they answer me.

I'll be curious to learn how Boker responds, Dan.

Correct that Boker Magnum is Boker's Chinese-made line. But I believe all of their knives that carry the "Arbolito" name are made in Argentina.

I purchased mine from A.G. Russell, and the product description says, "The slim 6" blade is German drop-forged C-60 at 55-57 Rc.....Made in Argentina." I searched high and low for this Arbolito model, and the only place I could find it was AGR. I recall this particular model being more widely available years ago, and now I don't even see it on the Arbolito page on Boker's website anymore (unless you go to www.boker.com/ar.... link you provided) - I wonder if they have phased it out, or if it is a dealer exclusive with A.G. these days, at least in the U.S?

 

[.577NE]

Another beauty by John Cahoon (not mine but for sale https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/gaucho-in-52100-ironwood-and-elk.1923079/#post-21858083)

 

[RayseM]

With the new Dan we would have had more room in the boat for gear - a solar power refrigerator or a storable canopy for that rainy day?


Knife content - sorry - not yet.

 

[herder]

Dan, since you mentioned Boker, here is a nice older Gaucho model from them.

 

[CelloDan]

I'll be curious to learn how Boker responds, Dan.

I'll make sure to share their answer here if they respond

I purchased mine from A.G. Russell, and the product description says, "The slim 6" blade is German drop-forged C-60 at 55-57 Rc.....Made in Argentina."

I went to the A.G Russell website and checked the description on the knife.
I noticed a discrepancy between the main description and the one posted on the "SPecs" tab where it states the steel is 440A

I wrote A.G. Russell the following and got a response today posted below:

"Hello, the description of the knife states the steel is C60 carbon however in the spec page for this knife it says the steel is stainless 440A

At the same time, after doing a bit of research on Boker carbon steel it looks like they like to use C75 steel a lot in their products

Would you please confirm what type of steel and hardness the gaucho knife that Boker makes for you is made off ?

Thank you
Daniel"

Response :

"The steels 440A and C60 are equivalent to each other in composition and hardness.

This information was provided by Boker, so 440A should be correct.

Have a great day!

Sonja
A.G. Russell Knives, Russell’s for Men,
Cutting Edge
Customer Service Returns"

------------------

I am not fully understanding the reply to be honest ( however my knowledge of steels is very basic ).
Is C60 equivalent to 440A to be used interchangeably ?

The knives coming from the Argentine factory look very similar however the prices from the Argentina Arbolito factory as well as several other retailers in Argentina is several hundreds of dollars more than at A.G Russell.

The only obvious difference I can see between the two models is the "notch" shape in the ricasso area

From A.G Russell

From Boker Argentina

I am certainly hoping that Boker Arbolito in Argentina writes back

edit: I also noticed the Boker Arbolito Argentina site states the handle is astas de ciervo patagónico "Patagonian deer antler" while A.G. Russell states theirs is "European" antler from the Red Deer.

 

[CelloDan]

Dan, since you mentioned Boker, here is a nice older Gaucho model from them.

View attachment 2137015

Very nice indeed Neal. I am sure that knife has so many stories to tell.

Very nice how it features the "Escudo Nacional Argentino"

Here is some more work by Argentine maestro Eduardo Salazar that he shared on social media.
Beautiful work on those older blades !

Boker

And this one from Joseph Rodgers & Sons

​

 

[Hammer67]

I'll make sure to share their answer here if they respond



I went to the A.G Russell website and checked the description on the knife.
I noticed a discrepancy between the main description and the one posted on the "SPecs" tab where it states the steel is 440A

I wrote A.G. Russell the following and got a response today posted below:

"Hello, the description of the knife states the steel is C60 carbon however in the spec page for this knife it says the steel is stainless 440A

At the same time, after doing a bit of research on Boker carbon steel it looks like they like to use C75 steel a lot in their products

Would you please confirm what type of steel and hardness the gaucho knife that Boker makes for you is made off ?

Thank you
Daniel"

Response :

"The steels 440A and C60 are equivalent to each other in composition and hardness.

This information was provided by Boker, so 440A should be correct.

Have a great day!

Sonja
A.G. Russell Knives, Russell’s for Men,
Cutting Edge
Customer Service Returns"

------------------

I am not fully understanding the reply to be honest ( however my knowledge of steels is very basic ).
Is C60 equivalent to 440A to be used interchangeably ?

The knives coming from the Argentine factory look very similar however the prices from the Argentina Arbolito factory as well as several other retailers in Argentina is several hundreds of dollars more than at A.G Russell.

The only obvious difference I can see between the two models is the "notch" shape in the ricasso area

From A.G Russell

From Boker Argentina

I am certainly hoping that Boker Arbolito in Argentina writes back

edit: I also noticed the Boker Arbolito Argentina site states the handle is astas de ciervo patagónico "Patagonian deer antler" while A.G. Russell states theirs is "European" antler from the Red Deer.

Thanks for sharing that, Dan. I noticed that discrepancy as well between the what it says in the description vs. the specs. And I'm not fully understanding that reply from A.G. Russel, either. My understanding is that C-60 is essentially German 1060 high carbon steel, not "identical to 440A' in terms of composition.

I guess one way to find out is to see whether my Arbolito develops a patina over time!

Very nice indeed Neal. I am sure that knife has so many stories to tell.

Very nice how it features the "Escudo Nacional Argentino"

Here is some more work by Argentine maestro Eduardo Salazar that he shared on social media.
Beautiful work on those older blades !

Boker

And this one from Joseph Rodgers & Sons

​

Gorgeous work! Thanks for sharing.

 

[knifenheimer]

Erroneous post. Apologies.

 

[CelloDan]

I am amazed at the intricate work on the pommel of my Verijero ... that little bird almost seems to come alive

More here:

Photos - A Walk in Nature

Summer dreams 🎶 💐

www.bladeforums.com

 

[Hammer67]

I am amazed at the intricate work on the pommel of my Verijero ... that little bird almost seems to come alive

More here:

Photos - A Walk in Nature

Summer dreams 🎶 💐

www.bladeforums.com

Indeed - that level of craftsmanship is very difficult to come by these days.

 

[RayseM]

NICE Dan!

 

[CelloDan]

I thought capybaras were vegetarians however this one here just ate half a chicken
Time to clean and oil my Verijero

 

[RayseM]

Oh geez Dan, that blade has gone bad. All those colors - straw and blue and purple - you know the tempering is all gone. Too bad it started out so great and promising. Oh well, I can spare you more grief. Just send it to Maine and I'll put a new blade in that handle and get it back to usable. Will spare you needing to be reminded of its short and glorious life. I'll just use it in the shop. Sorry my Brother. I know you were excited about this one.

 

[cbach8tw]

Oh geez Dan, that blade has gone bad. All those colors - straw and blue and purple - you know the tempering is all gone. Too bad it started out so great and promising. Oh well, I can spare you more grief. Just send it to Maine and I'll put a new blade in that handle and get it back to usable. Will spare you needing to be reminded of its short and glorious life. I'll just use it in the shop. Sorry my Brother. I know you were excited about this one.

Late April fools joke!! I am serious, not a joker like this guy, I would be glad to own it if the patina s getting to you, I don’t mind it. Wait, I have one coming too…. Better I have an extra one too.

 

[CelloDan]

In his short essay about gaucho knives Abel A. Domenech describes some of the typical characteristics of the traditional cuchillo criollo, more specifically the Puñal and its smaller version, the Verijero.

1: The slim, elegant, spear pointed blade.

"Criollo" by Maxie Pescie

2: The presence of an integrally forged bolster or "button" (in Spanish, botón) which reinforces and divides the blade from its tang.

My Verijero being made

These blades have a "rat tail" tang, which remains enclosed within the handle of the knife

Mine

"The bolster had a rounded shape in Uruguayan and Southern Brazilian knives, while in those used in the present day Argentine territories had distinctive square-shape sides."

I found it very interesting to note mentioned on a couple of other Spanish websites that the rounded bolster are also characteristic of the Argentine province of Entre Rios where I was born

Rounded buttons or bolsters

The province of Entre Rios is right across Uruguay perhaps explaining the use of round bolsters in my province as well.

"Typical Uruguayan and Brazilian "buttons" and sheaths provided with a "button keeper"
"Notice the Spanish notch on the ricasso (base) of each blade and also note the semicircular extension from the sheath mouth which covers and protects the blade's bolster while the knife is inside the sheath, a feature usually associated with Brazilian and Uruguayan sheaths."

Square bolsters typical of Argentine "criollos"

3: The use of "cuts" or file marks on the back of the blade
According to Mr Domenech likely used just as decorations.

4: The presence of some kind of "notch" in the ricasso of the blade.
On a picture above the "Spanish notch" is shown present on some puñales from Brazil and Uruguay.

Another common feature in Argentine knives is the "half-moon cut".
"This half-moon cut is especially useful when the owner intends to make a thrust with his knife, by preventing his hand from slipping onto the blade and cutting the fingers"

I must say that I find this feature very comfortable indeed when using my Verijero.

Maxi Pescie tracing the notch in preparation to file it on my verijero

I have observed as well in many pictures and in my own Verijero that the blades of the criollos are indeed robust however they also taper nicely at the tip for finer work.

Sorry I could not resist folks

A comment I've read online is that modern mass produced "criollo knives" are not as robust as they used to be since modern Argentines use them mainly for the asado unlike the much harder use a gaucho would have given these knives a hundred plus years ago.

Cheers folks

Edit: I just noticed that some of the links to specific paragraphs in Mr Domenech’s essay do not work on my phone however they do on my laptop

 

[kamagong]

Thanks for the additional pictures CelloDan . They are not making the wait for my own knife any easier however.