Gaucho knives and cuchillos criollos of South America

[screened porch]

Somehow Instagram has been suggesting posts by various craftsmen making what I assume are traditional leather crafts for Brazilian Gauchos. I'm not sure how this happened, but I'm not exactly complaining. I am puzzled, however, at the function and Genesis of this knife and sheath setup that I keep seeing over and over again:

Looks like good leather work to me and a handy pairing, typically including what appears to be an inexpensive carbon steel butcher/skinning knife. But, why so large? Especially when worn like this:

I have worked cattle on horseback and otherwise many times and the last thing I would think to bring is a canoe paddle to shove into my belt. I can't see that being anything more than a major annoyance; constantly getting caught on ropes and brush and getting smacked by my elbow.

Am I missing something here? Are there some methods used by Brazilian Gauchos that are not used by the Argentines that make this set up desirable? Is it just a tradition that developed and persists simply because it is a tradition? Or is it a new trend?

I suspect the sheathed steel with knife has always been more for poolside than pampas (just a hunch), but I've never seen such a honking big-eared sheath for them. Could it be for the safety of poseurs?

The gaucho who made this rig in the1960s must have had some faith in the skills or sense of the mechanical engineer he made it for.
Unless he was trying to kill him.

 

[oldmanwilly]

I suspect the sheathed steel with knife has always been more for poolside than pampas (just a hunch), but I've never seen such a honking big-eared sheath for them. Could it be for the safety of poseurs?

Yeah, I had that thought too. Maybe the extra large flap of leather would help prevent the knife from coming out of the sheath and soften the blow in the event you fall off your horse. Still, it just seems excessive.

As an aside, I went down a rabbit hole last night and found the manufacturer of the Brazilian gaucho knife featured in my pics. They also make churrasco/meat knives. Many of them feature more "typical," slender gaucho style sheaths. I'm tempted to try one out, but I'm not jazzed about the steel options: either 420 for stainless or 1070 carbon. I reckon 1070 would do well for the purpose.

 

[oldmanwilly]

Maybe BF's resident expert in cowboy knives could shed some light on this. Horsewright have you ever come across something like this Brazilian rig and have any insights as to why it may be popular?

Somehow Instagram has been suggesting posts by various craftsmen making what I assume are traditional leather crafts for Brazilian Gauchos. I'm not sure how this happened, but I'm not exactly complaining. I am puzzled, however, at the function and Genesis of this knife and sheath setup that I keep seeing over and over again:

Looks like good leather work to me and a handy pairing, typically including what appears to be an inexpensive carbon steel butcher/skinning knife. But, why so large? Especially when worn like this:

I have worked cattle on horseback and otherwise many times and the last thing I would think to bring is a canoe paddle to shove into my belt. I can't see that being anything more than a major annoyance; constantly getting caught on ropes and brush and getting smacked by my elbow.

Am I missing something here? Are there some methods used by Brazilian Gauchos that are not used by the Argentines that make this set up desirable? Is it just a tradition that developed and persists simply because it is a tradition? Or is it a new trend?

 

[Horsewright]

Maybe BF's resident expert in cowboy knives could shed some light on this. Horsewright have you ever come across something like this Brazilian rig and have any insights as to why it may be popular?

No sir I have not. No idea why they would make it so big. The ear I get, to catch a belt or sash as its doing in that pic and obviously its automatically right or left handed. But the canoe paddle? No idea.

 

[oldmanwilly]

No sir I have not. No idea why they would make it so big. The ear I get, to catch a belt or sash as its doing in that pic and obviously its automatically right or left handed. But the canoe paddle? No idea.

Ha, thanks for the input. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask. Hopefully someone can chime in later.

 

[Horsewright]

Ha, thanks for the input. I figured it couldn't hurt to ask. Hopefully someone can chime in later.

I wonder if it's a show off skills type of thing, with the craftsmanship? I once saw a lil vid of a premier saddlemaker and he was asked why flower carving was so prevalent on western saddles. He felt that it was because it was difficult to do well and so it was a showing of the skills kinda thing. Queen sabe amigo!

 

[oldmanwilly]

I wonder if it's a show off skills type of thing, with the craftsmanship? I once saw a lil vid of a premier saddlemaker and he was asked why flower carving was so prevalent on western saddles. He felt that it was because it was difficult to do well and so it was a showing of the skills kinda thing. Queen sabe amigo!

I thought that too, and maybe it is a factor. But I have seen videos of men working cattle in pens on horseback with these knife/steel/sheath setup ups tucked into their belts. Maybe they're just doing it for social media, but the knives/sheaths looked to be well used at the time.

I sent a message to the maker asking about it. I'll report back if they respond.

 

[CelloDan]

I spent the night familiarizing myself with my new knife, and comparing her with the 25. Although the boxes, sheaths, and etch are identical, I noticed a couple of differences. First, the etch on the 20 is shallower than the one on the 25. Second, the bolster to blade transition is much more angular.

I wonder if these details are significant and if they might indicate which of these knives is older.

I sent the pics of your knives to a fellow in Argentina whom I've consulted before and who knows his stuff in regards to criollo knives.

I was told that the knives are relatively recent ( last few decades ) as per their stamp and style. As per their differences ( bolsters, stamp depth etc ) he could not comment much with certainty except to say some differences are thought to be due to the fact that at some point Boker replaced the worn out dies used for 100 + years with new ones which produced somewhat different shapes.

He went on to say that his personal "theory" is that Boker no longer makes criollos in their own factory in Solingen but that they contract them out to a third party based in Solingen who makes them for Boker. That is why Boker can state "Made in Solingen" about their criollos. He said this appears to be a highly guarded "secret" however he believes this to be the case based on pieces of info he gathered here and there in the knife world.

I have seen pictures of the person I consulted alongside owners/management of Boker Argentina at their factory and yet he still can not say for for sure so many things about Boker.
Accurate info about Boker and their history seems to pose challenges for experts and historians everywhere

Somehow Instagram has been suggesting posts by various craftsmen making what I assume are traditional leather crafts for Brazilian Gauchos. I'm not sure how this happened, but I'm not exactly complaining. I am puzzled, however, at the function and Genesis of this knife and sheath setup that I keep seeing over and over again:

I am very puzzled as well.
Google is not helping today except for providing a couple more pictures of this set up.

I reckon 1070 would do well for the purpose.

I think so
Maxi I believe makes them with 1070 and uses 1070 in the damascus as well.
For my Verijero I requested 1095 since with for knife that size I wanted slightly better edge retention ( at the expense of some toughness )

 

[kamagong]

I sent the pics of your knives to a fellow in Argentina whom I've consulted before and who knows his stuff in regards to criollo knives.

I was told that the knives are relatively recent ( last few decades ) as per their stamp and style. As per their differences ( bolsters, stamp depth etc ) he could not comment much with certainty except to say some differences are thought to be due to the fact that at some point Boker replaced the worn out dies used for 100 + years with new ones which produced somewhat different shapes.

He went on to say that his personal "theory" is that Boker no longer makes criollos in their own factory in Solingen but that they contract them out to a third party based in Solingen who makes them for Boker. That is why Boker can state "Made in Solingen" about their criollos. He said this appears to be a highly guarded "secret" however he believes this to be the case based on pieces of info he gathered here and there in the knife world.

I have seen pictures of the person I consulted alongside owners/management of Boker Argentina at their factory and yet he still can not say for for sure so many things about Boker.
Accurate info about Boker and their history seems to pose challenges for experts and historians everywhere

Thanks for sharing that info Dan. I figured that the knives were of fairly recent vintage, as T Trubetzkoy noted that the etch indicates the 1983-2001 time frame. Not antiques, but older than the currently offered models. I also observed that my knives have swedges. The cuchillos criollos on the Argentine Boker website no longer have swedging.

Hard to believe that Boker no longer makes the knives themselves. While I can well imagine that they contract out the forging of the blades to another firm, I would think that they still import the blades into Argentina to complete the builds (i.e., add handles and fit sheaths). Otherwise, why would they bother with etching 'ARGENTINA' on the pile side of the blade?

I'm definitely going to put the 25 to use. No point in refraining, it is a factory knife that was made in bunches. The only thing that gives me pause is its size, the 25 does not seem as common as the 20 cm or 15 cm versions.

 

[cbach8tw]

Maybe not really a gaucho knife, but I picked up this one by Maxi has it nice metal bolster I liked. It looks more like stainless.

 

[screened porch]

View attachment 2833921View attachment 2833922View attachment 2833923Maybe not really a gaucho knife, but I picked up this one by Maxi has it nice metal bolster I liked. It looks more like stainless.

That's a beautiful knife.

 

[cbach8tw]

In addition to that one and the gaucho knives I have from Maxi , also have a slightly larger hunter like the one above without a bolster.

 

[CelloDan]

Thanks for sharing that info Dan. I figured that the knives were of fairly recent vintage, as T Trubetzkoy noted that the etch indicates the 1983-2001 time frame. Not antiques, but older than the currently offered models. I also observed that my knives have swedges. The cuchillos criollos on the Argentine Boker website no longer have swedging.

Welcome Christian !

I spent some time this morning looking more closely at your knives vs the current ones . Your knives are indeed different from the currently offered models.

As you stated your knives have a swedge and the current models do not.
I also observed that the current models have the length of the knife in cm stamped on the bolster while yours do not ( I've seen however on Vintage Arbolitos the number stamped on the bolster but the fonts/size is quite different)
The "notch" is a slightly different shape as well.
Most telling is the different stamp used on current models where they reversed the order of the lines.
In yours the word "ARBOLITO" is on the bottom line and in the current ones is at the top.

I watched the video again that I've shared a couple posts back and it indicates that yours are from the 1984/2001 timeframe as you stated.
Starting at the 7:45 mark we can see the pre and post 2001 stamps discussed.

Interesting to note is that this person also comments in regards to the controversy of where exactly the current post 2001 knives are manufactured these days and possible concerns about quality etc. He states he will discuss more in depth the modern Arbolitos in an upcoming video however he never got around to do it seems.

As I understand from reading on the Boker Argentina website the new dies are a relatively recent development.

Here are a couple pics of current criollos taken from Boker Argentina:

Also, in regards to the Boker Arbolito stamps and their corresponding periods, especially on vintage knives I was cautioned to take it only as general guidelines and not as established facts.

While I can well imagine that they contract out the forging of the blades to another firm, I would think that they still import the blades into Argentina to complete the builds (i.e., add handles and fit sheaths).

Yes, that would make sense.

Boker Argentina site only states that their "Arbolito" line of criollos are "Forged in Solingen, Germany" (forjadas en Solingen Alemania).

For their Boker "Defensa Argentina" line of criollos it says "Manufactured in Argentina: (fabricada en Argentina).

Then again, the person I've consulted a few times told me in past conversations he does not think any Boker criollos are "made" in Argentina ( Perhaps he was referring to only forging part)

I'm definitely going to put the 25 to use. No point in refraining, it is a factory knife that was made in bunches. The only thing that gives me pause is its size, the 25 does not seem as common as the 20 cm or 15 cm versions.

Yeah, I would totally use it
It's a big one though.
I personally would have some difficulty finding ways to use it ... unless we invite RayseM for pizza

In addition to that one and the gaucho knives I have from Maxi , also have a slightly larger hunter like the one above without a bolster.

Wow, nice collection of "carpinchos" mi amigo !!!

Christian was right, they do reproduce quite quickly LOL

My 3 amigos

 

[RayseM]

Well you guys are wayyyyyyy out of my league with your GAUCHO KNIVES collections but I'm still quite happy with one my ONE Puñal Criollo from Maxi.

A 10" + blade that does slice pizza very well. I will be happy to join you all anywhere for a pizza and Gaucho Knives party.



Me too - sad to see the CAPYBARA logo retired. It was more iconic than a signature. Perhaps Maxi might consider reintroducing it with the addition of MP accompanying the image.

 

[kamagong]

Well you guys are wayyyyyyy out of my league with your GAUCHO KNIVES collections but I'm still quite happy with one my ONE Puñal Criollo from Maxi.

For now perhaps. You're only 1/3 of the way from completing your kitchen set.

ME TOO - asked for a 10" blade. I'll go backwards if I like this one and have 2 smaller ones - maybe a 7" and a 4", if @maxipescie will go that small - maybe 8" and 6". I would love a somewhat matched set. These will be kitchen knives for me. As much as I love those beautiful sheaths I'm going bare bones on the first one.

 

[RayseM]

We have a historian in our midst Keep an eye on me Christian.

 

[kamagong]

Family picture.

 

[Trubetzkoy]

Family picture.

View attachment 2835035

Kinda regretting not getting that Simbra myself. Such handsome repousse!

 

[kamagong]

Kinda regretting not getting that Simbra myself. Such handsome repousse!

It's the blade I like. Its lines are the most beautifully shaped out of the ones I own.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to remedy the loose handle. I took your advice and gently tried to re-peen the tang, without any success. All I have to show for my efforts are a few more hammer marks at the end of the handle.

Other than removing it, is there any way to solidify the attachment? If the handle is filled with wax, can I leave it point down in a hot car during the summer in the hopes of the wax melting and perhaps re-forming around the tang?

 

[CelloDan]

It's the blade I like. Its lines are the most beautifully shaped out of the ones I own.

Unfortunately I haven't been able to remedy the loose handle. I took your advice and gently tried to re-peen the tang, without any success. All I have to show for my efforts are a few more hammer marks at the end of the handle.

Other than removing it, is there any way to solidify the attachment? If the handle is filled with wax, can I leave it point down in a hot car during the summer in the hopes of the wax melting and perhaps re-forming around the tang?

The handle of my Pampa verijero is a little off center.
I asked a silversmith from Argentina what to do about it.
He told me not to worry about it however if I ever wanted to correct it I could try dipping the handle in boiling water to heat the “”lacre” or cutler resin a little and then try recentering/twisting the handle.

This may work in your case as well. Perhaps there is an air buble close to the pommel or the resin is not fully engaging/grabbing onto the tang.

Heating the resin may redistribute it and allow it to get a better hold.

A couple of videos of how the handles are installed using “lacre”