GEC Farm & Field Tools, what can we expect?

One thing that I do wish to see is a Weaver Jack with the three blades, long pulls and in Ebony,,,but this in't a request thread :D

Honestly, I do not foresee the economy line becoming very big.
 
How about a fixed blade. Maybe something along the lines of a little fin or fixed blade hawk bill.

I have to say though, with a name like farm and field tool, the sodbuster was a no brainer. To me in is the epitome of a good, hard working knife.
 
comoha said:
When I think farm tool, I think of a pruner or hawkbill. There is hardly a more specific knife for crop growing than that one.
Would love to see GEC's interpretation of that model, or even a cotton sampler.
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I've pretty much given up buying production knives, but I'd buy a cotton sampler in a heartbeat.
 
JAlexander said:
I've pretty much given up buying production knives, but I'd buy a cotton sampler in a heartbeat.
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GEC made a cotton sampler for Tuna Valley (Daniels Family) and Krack-A-Jack knives. It was fairly expensive compared to the Bullnose though.

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comoha said:
When I think farm tool, I think of a pruner or hawkbill. There is hardly a more specific knife for crop growing than that one.
Would love to see GEC's interpretation of that model, or even a cotton sampler.
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The style of cotton sampler shown above under the Tuna Valley label doesn't really appeal to me but if they did a sampler like S&M's File & Wire model with the broad straight edged blade I'd love it. A more aggressive pruner style blade than the Weaver would be interesting as well.
 
IMO, for a US made working knife, GEC's competition here is the Case Sodbuster (duh) and the Buck Ecolite 112/110 and Bucklite Max line. The Bucks can be found in the $35 - $20 range pretty regularly. Very hard to argue with the value of those knives.

I would like to see a GEC 72 lockback at the $40 price point. Derlin or Paperstone scales would be fine. Buck is doing it with the Ecolites, so it can be done.
 
Buck and GEC are very different companies and have large differences in their numbers of employees and their production totals. I'm not sure that it's a fair comparison. ...and although I'm a fan of Buck knives (especially the 301/303), the fit and finish is not up to the same standards as GEC.
 
Jake, I agree that GEC is known for a level of fit and finish that Buck doesn't hit with their production knives. But two things... ok, three...

First, I would put Buck's custom shop stuff up against GEC's best.

Second, we're talking about a "farm and field" line aiming at a lower price point. Scale materials need to be cheapened and I think people need to adjust their f&f expectations downwards.... unless of course GEC puts in fully automated, high precision tooling like Victorinox.

Third, I think the target for working level knives has been set before by others besides Buck. Schrade's Old Timer line. Some of Case's knives. Bear and Sons... It *is* possible.

Here's a nice looking American knife that makes a great utility working knife. Can be found for under $40 with regularity. The Buck 112.

IMO, GEC needs to match this, both in quality and price.

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Now that Corey mentioned it, I do agree that a hawkbill/pruner would fit this line very well...

Fausto
:cool:
 
pinnah said:
Jake, I agree that GEC is known for a level of fit and finish that Buck doesn't hit with their production knives. But two things... ok, three...

First, I would put Buck's custom shop stuff up against GEC's best.

Second, we're talking about a "farm and field" line aiming at a lower price point. Scale materials need to be cheapened and I think people need to adjust their f&f expectations downwards.... unless of course GEC puts in fully automated, high precision tooling like Victorinox.

Third, I think the target for working level knives has been set before by others besides Buck. Schrade's Old Timer line. Some of Case's knives. Bear and Sons... It *is* possible.

Here's a nice looking American knife that makes a great utility working knife. Can be found for under $40 with regularity. The Buck 112.

IMO, GEC needs to match this, both in quality and price.

310MB2R6PGL._SS500_.jpg
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I don't have experience with the Buck custom shop but the prices are quite high... similar to the more expensive GEC knives from what I understand. I have no doubt that Buck is capable of producing beautiful knives. It's Buck's regular production knives that I don't think can be fairly compared to GEC's "Farm & Field Tools". I don't think the small start up has the means (or the resources to acquire the means) to produce knives in the same quantity as Buck. The number of 110s produced in a single year is much more than the total of all of the knives GEC has ever produced. The cost of making a knife will always be more expensive for GEC unless they change the way they make knives. They would have to stop doing what they do best and that doesn't usually end well. I don't have insider information or special knowledge about GEC's business practices but this is my opinion.

I think the $50 mark may be a sweet spot for both consumers and GEC. The fit and finish of the Bullnose is quite good.
 
What with the finalized sale of Queen to Ken Daniels with the possible result being Queen Knife quality of old, GEC will be faced with stiffer competition than they are now. As a result, GEC just might not go too far down the economy line road. I know that I, for one, will go back to buying Queen knives if Daniels can get their quality control under control. Of course I'll still buy GEC as I do now but less of them.

As to Buck vs. GEC, I have a couple/three/four/five or more Buck knives that rival anything that has ever come out of GEC. The last Buck 110 I bought had perfect fit and finish and not one scratch etc. etc. etc.. As Richstag (Kevin) pointed out in another thread, his GECs come to him (and mine come to me) with multiple scratches right out of the tube.
 
Ed, that's my experience with Buck too. I think a perception problem that Buck has is that they are big and production oriented. In every collector's world I've been involved in, small boutique shops tend to a have a mystique about them, regardless of actual quality issues. I suspect that if you put a Queen, Canal Street or GEC label on a Buck 112, it would be seen as the best value out there. It is a great value just the same.

One place where I think Buck as badly missed the mark (like can't even hit the broad side of the barn, missed the mark) is blade materials, blade grinds and imported sourcing for their slip joints. To my mind, a big part of the tradition of a traditional is the place of manufacture. An Opinel should be made in France, a traditional Boker in Germany and so forth. I'm fine with Buck importing things like tactical folders and rescue knives, but prefer to see their traditional knives made in the US (more traditional). And doubly would prefer to see flat ground blades and 420HC minimally instead of the concave ground 420J found on some of their low end slip joints.

Since the death of Schrade (US), there's been a lack of production oriented carbon steel slip joints made in the US. There is the Case CV models, especially the yellow ones. Bear and Sons has some. Utica? Or are they made by Bear and Sons? In any event, I think there's been a gap left by the disappearance of 1095 Old Timers.

The two knives I would most be looking for from GEC in this category (to add to the Sodbuster) would be a stockman to compete with the Buck US made 301s and to more or less fill the void of the missing 8OT and a medium-small lockback to somewhat replace the fill the slot between the old 5OT and 6OT. A GEC 72 with saw cut Derlin scales would fit that bill.

I suppose a case could be made for a market for a medium priced 1095 fixed blade with a blade in the 4" range. One of the GEC Canoe pattern fixed blades with a less expensive Derlin style handle might have cross over appeal to the bushcraft crowd.

Buck's problem is that they won't provide 1095 knives.

Case's problem is that they are too focused on small pocket knives (other than the Sodbuster).

I actually think GEC has a market here, but Buck's US made offerings will force a low price point. Buck's 301, 112, Ecolite 112 are great values if you can live with stainless.
 
My experience with the quality of the 110 is rather limited. It's a classic but I sold my one (and only) example of the pattern because of the weight and the size. My experience with Buck is mostly with their 300 series knives. I have owned dozens of 301/3s and even though I think the dymondwood 301 is gorgeous the fit and finish is not even close to GEC. The Buck 110 or 301 aren't sodbusters so I suppose it's sort of an apples and oranges but from what I'm understanding, you'd say the 110 is as good or better than the 72 also. The 110 is much more affordable... I think GEC may lose that battle then... The competition for the Bullnose is probably the $18 Case Sodbuster... or the 30 something $ Queen Country Cousin. The Case is fine for me. The Queen has a fairly thick grind and I didn't like it but lots of others seem to be happy with it. If I were a company buying knives for two dozen employees, I'd buy Case Sodbusters. GEC has a small niche. I do think that Queen could become stiff competition for GEC. Queen already has dies for some very cool patterns and if they improve their blade grinds and Q/C, I think I'll be buying a lot of knives from them.
 
Well....we won't have to wait to long to see the next F&F knife....from this morning

PROJECTS TO PONDER:
(Not necessarily in the order listed)

Benjamin L. Hogan, 1865
#47 Farm & Field Tool, Hayn’ Helper
Indian Girl
Coon Skinner
Vacquero
 
That was quick! Thank you for the heads up, Jim.

...based on the name, i'm guessing it's a single blade hawkbill. Any other guesses?
 
As a craftsman and service provider in the construction industry, I always wonder about where folks want cuts to be made to my product while keeping the highest level of quality. If I am offering an above average product at a slightly above market price, it is because I spend more time building, say.... bathroom cabinets.

I have more time in mine, so I think I deserve more money. And I have been doing this kind of work for almost 40 years, most of it for my own company. My clients have come to expect more.

So where would I cut to get a cheaper product? My time? No, it wouldn't be the same product. My materials? No, plenty of my competitors use Home D*pot plywood and finishes. Hmmmm....
So where do you cut your costs of production and still turn out a better than average product at a lower cost? I don't think you could find a cheaper blade steel or a material easier on your grinding tools than 1095. And the Delrin-ish handled knives don't seem to sell well to the GEC followers. And already here, folks that that have turned this into a "wish list" thread are talking about scale upgrades, steel upgrades, etc.

Where would the cuts be made? If you develop a new design, have new punches and dies made, go through a slew of prototypes to knock out the bugs, then spend the money to market it, how much would that cost in today's economy?

Seems to me there are quite a few nice "work knives" made here in the USA that are quite good users and are very affordable. They may not have the panache of GEC etc., but for those looking for an affordable hard working knife, i.e., a sturdy knife with good steel and construction, durable scales, and a trustworthy warranty there are plenty of knifes available now.

I saw a "redneck" at the last gun show. I have to say, I didn't get the attraction. It is certainly no better than my Country Cousin, feels about the same in the hand, and has a much softer steel and the same scales. And since I could almost buy three Country Cousins for the price of the GEC, I just didn't get it.

Robert
 
Jake,

I think an underlying question here is how much are people willing to see fit and finish drop to see a lower price point from GEC. Closely related to this is the question, is GEC really markedly better than Buck in terms of actual fit and finish? My experience with Buck has been similar to Ed's - they make really good stuff. And judging from comments on this forum, GEC isn't always perfect. My sense is that well run high volume producers often do as good or better than smaller shops that rely more on "by hand" practices.

With respect to the various patterns...

Stockman - GEC would need to compete with Buck's US made offerings and Case.

Sodbuster - GEC would need to compete with Case (certainly), Queen (we hope) and the Buck Ecolite 112 (which isn't a Sodbuster but is in the same size range)

Lockbacks - GEC would need to compete with Buck's 112 and Ecolite 112 and 110 and Ecolite 110.

Note, I'm not pushing the Buck 110 in anyway. I agree it's heavy (would love to try the Ecolite version). But, among working folks, there is a need/market for larger locking folders. I think the GEC 72 and newer Missouri Trader cover the size range correctly and are correctly thinner in profile than the classic Bucks. Put Derlin scales on them and you have a GEC variant of the Schrade 5OT and 6OT and direct competition to the Buck Ecolite 110 and 112. IMO, Buck could use the competition here if it means a 1095 blade.
 
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