GEC - production, dealer practices, availability

[craytab]

This is just like the survive thread. The company's practices are well known. It is not a surprise. Don't like the practices? don't support the company with your dollars. Can you handle their practices with maturity and rationality? Get in line. Undecided? Wait and see how it plays out, however you know exactly what will happen then. No knife. Not everyone can date the pretty girl just because you "want". Sometimes you just lose out. Sorry. That is life. Adjust your expectations accordingly.

 

[marcinek]

Forgive if I'm missing something, since all this is recent news to me, but has there been any indication whatsoever that there won't be another run, SFO, or whatever of these knives? Or variants? If this SFO sold out so quickly, why wouldn't there be another run? A one-off? Where's the logic in that?

There will be more #14's.

Obviously they didn't make enough for everybody....but people got all of the ones they did make...so they were "gettable." No conspiracy going on.

And if they don't make more...well...that's odd since they all sold...but still their call.

I want a magic talking unicorn that poops cinnamon rolls. Cant have one.

Wotta you gonna do? Stomp one's feet and hold one's breath?

Just odd.

 

[KELAMA]

Flatbush is a neighborhood in Brooklyn, a borough in the greatest city in the world. We like to think of ourselves as a city within a city, Brooklyn Strong.

That's where I grew up! I was in East Flatbush in Mill Basin till '97.
Best place in the world to grow up! Not the same now though.
Where are you??
Joe

Wow, it's a small World!

I grew up & lived in Flatbush, until 6 years of age! I was born in, Flatbush St. Joseph Hospital.

On topic:
Can anyone here, score me one of these hard to come by GEC knives? As a departing gift from the forums?

Edit:
Please!

 

[craytab]

Wow, it's a small World!

I grew up & lived in Flatbush, until 6 years of age! I was born in, Flatbush St. Joseph Hospital.

On topic:
Can anyone here, score me one of these hard to come by GEC knives? As a departing gift from the forums?

Edit:
Please!

What does this have to do with the topic?

 

[major_works]

Mike is right, there is no answer that fits everyone.

Collectorknives does a great job of early reserve in the business. It is completely fair and simple. Others do it differently (I don't know how they do it) but they do reserves. We throw ours up and let people buy them.

Ultimately, whether you call and someone says, "They are all reserved" or go to Mike's site and find that they are all spoken for or you go to our site and find they are all sold out--it is all the same. It is just at different times and different methods.

There are X number of knives and many more customers who want them. Every time there is a hot knife like these, it costs us customers because someone thinks that we do it wrong. I know Mike faces the same thing.

As to notifications (and the email that started this thread was from us), we send notices to the people who ask to give them a heads up for when they will go on the site. It is all we know to do. As to the timing--we have sent them out before hours in advance and we have customers who don't like the time, or didn't check their email, or it went into a spam filter. No matter how we approach this, there are always people upset.

As to a brisk interaction with our customer service. I am very sorry about that. We try hard to not be brisk. Understand when we a product like this comes out (and in the week or so before) we get tons and tons of calls of people asking when and complaining about how and wanting to know why and upset that they didn't get it from someone else and just excited to talk about hoping they get it. As hard as we try, sometimes that "here we go again" might come through. I am really sorry about that. We will have a discussion about that in our staff meeting.

All that to say, I am sorry it doesn't work like everyone would like. It doesn't work the way we would like either, but at this point, it is the best we know how to do.

I'm a KSF customer and I am on your mailing list, but I did not receive an email about the #14 TC barlows from KSF. By the time I knew you had them, they were long gone. Am I correct in concluding that in order to get that notification email for something like this SFO, I need to call KSF ahead of time and ask to be a recipient?

Also, with something that's as in demand as TC Barlows, why do dealers not consider limiting purchases to one or two per customer, so that more people have a shot at getting a knife?

 

[okbohn]

I'm a KSF customer and I am on your mailing list, but I did not receive an email about the #14 TC barlows from KSF. By the time I knew you had them, they were long gone. Am I correct in concluding that in order to get that notification email for something like this SFO, I need to call KSF ahead of time and ask to be a recipient?

Also, with something that's as in demand as TC Barlows, why do dealers not consider limiting purchases to one or two per customer, so that more people have a shot at getting a knife?

You should check with tyler to make sure he has your email address and has it correct. If you are on our list, we sent an email (whether it was received is a whole other matter!!).

We are actually going to start limiting them to one per handle material per order. That doesn't do everything you are looking for, but it does slow things down a bit.

 

[AntDog]

I'm no GEC fanboy. I own a grand total of zero of them. I just can't stand all this whining, complaining, spamming horse hockey (without any plans to correct the reason for the butthurt).

This is nothing more than a temper tantrum. Tsar, would you agree there is a consensus now, or not quite yet?

 

[STAINLESS90]

I'm no GEC fanboy. I own a grand total of zero of them. I just can't stand all this whining, complaining, spamming horse hockey (without any plans to correct the reason for the butthurt).

This is nothing more than a temper tantrum. Tsar, would you agree there is a consensus now, or not quite yet?

You should know by now that it's not a consensus because no one is agreeing with him.

 

[KELAMA]

You should check with tyler to make sure he has your email address and has it correct. If you are on our list, we sent an email (whether it was received is a whole other matter!!).

We are actually going to start limiting them to one per handle material per order. That doesn't do everything you are looking for, but it does slow things down a bit.

^ Derrick:

What I most like & respect about your company: the fact that you can simply pick up a phone, call & speak to Tyler...it's that simple.

FWIW: I've called KSF 5 times (yesterday & today), Tyler answered every single time, without exception. Thanks to his, & your companies excellent customer service, I was able to land one of the Zero Tolerances Limited Edition releases early this morning.

Thank you so much! KnivesShipFree, rocks! :thumbup::thumbup:

 

[Jsega51]

Here's a quote from another member regarding the 14 TC. A little work and a simple email is all that it took. Now, while an answer back from the dealer would have been nice, the end result is that he's being rewarded for being proactive.

Well holy crap - An email that I sent to one of Charlie's dealers months ago that went unanswered resulted in a paypal invoice today, so maybe I will get my hands on one of these things!

 

[MrBitters]

I'm no GEC fanboy. I own a grand total of zero of them. I just can't stand all this whining, complaining, spamming horse hockey (without any plans to correct the reason for the butthurt).

This is nothing more than a temper tantrum. Tsar, would you agree there is a consensus now, or not quite yet?

Dude, AntDog, give it a rest. Tsar is in the correct forum to vent his frustrations and is voicing a concern about the sale and distribution of SFOs from GEC. Hammering on the posts as "whining, complaining, spamming horse hockey" isn't contributing to the discussion in any meaningful way and isn't offering up a plan to "correct the reason". At this point, you're just Trolling.

Tsar - I had (and posted) issues with this same thing some time ago (it was during Mikes second run of 77 barlows). I was hammered on, same as you. However, at that time Mike posted in the thread and what he said altered my perspective a bit.
In the end, traditional knives are a very small part of the knife industry & the dealers for this single manufacturer (GEC) are limited and small, especially compared to the big chain 'outdoor' retailers. They are running on thin margins against heavy competition in the market. The systems they have in place to sell these knives online are what works for them and are, usually what they can afford. They are not going to be changing, upgrading or altering their sales systems any time soon - they are doing the best they can with high demand and limited resources.

With high demand and limited resources competition for the knives is fierce. This tends to summon and additional problem... flippers / profiteers. Those that rush to buy the knives to resell on the Bay or forums to turn a profit are now buying these knives as soon as they drop on dealer websites.

However, this is all limited in scope by a single factor (as I see it). The very limited number of knives in question... and all these knives happen to be SFO Barlows.
You want a #15 or #14 barlow? It's one of Charlie's. Want a #77 barlow? It's one of Mike's. Even the latest run of #25s only had barlows that were a SFO for Barry.

SFOs on the #71 frame... I had a couple of days to pick one up. The #18 frame... SFOs for a couple of days on KSF's website and the Oily Creek SFO #18s are still available of the dealer's site today. In general, it's the barlows.

With the barlows, I have to give credit to Charlie for making it happen, this surge in popularity. The Sawyer Barlow brought a fading pattern, in a style that a minority of the knife buying public is interested in, and put it back to the forefront of our collective consciousness. The sleeveboard barlows, the #14, 15 & 77 have exploded in popularity over the last four years. Other manufacturers are putting out barlows now, the pattern is making a comeback, as it were.

And GEC has not made any sleeveboard barlows outside of the SFOs; very limited numbers available vs demand.

This, as far as I can tell, is what Charlie was hoping for - a resurgence in the popularity of the barlow pattern. "A barlow in every pocket" to quote the man himself.
And the barlows are now a victim of their own success. Demand has far outstripped the ability of SFOs (think of them like 'sprint runs) to keep up and, at the same time, pulled the profiteers / flippers into the market.

You want a solution to the issue as I see it?
GEC would need to manufacture a full production run of the barlows in question without the limiting factor of SFOs; the same kind of numbers as the upcoming run of #15 Beer Scouts or the last run of #77 Yankee Jacks at minimum.
Will that happen? I have no idea; but until the supply increases, the mad scramble won't be going away anytime soon.

 

[TsarBomba]

Since you're not taking the answers being given to you, even from the mods who have warned you now about trolling on this subject, maybe you'd like to tell everyone the answer you want to be told. I'm very curious as to what the end game is here.

This thread has not been touched by any mods, nor am I aware of any improprieties.

I can see that people are going to continue to persist in their efforts to make this about me, however, which is disappointing.

As to a brisk interaction with our customer service. I am very sorry about that. We try hard to not be brisk. Understand when we a product like this comes out (and in the week or so before) we get tons and tons of calls of people asking when and complaining about how and wanting to know why and upset that they didn't get it from someone else and just excited to talk about hoping they get it. As hard as we try, sometimes that "here we go again" might come through. I am really sorry about that. We will have a discussion about that in our staff meeting.

It wasn't your service, Derrick. I specifically set out not to name names.

I'm a little unclear with what you are asking, Tsar. Do you want to know how to get more information on the production schedule of GEC knives? Do you want to know, exactly, how the ones who got these knives managed to do it? Are you asking that this thread be a consolidation of information that everyone else has done the legwork on that you somehow cannot manage to do on your own?

At this point you are actively ignoring the things I have said repeatedly in an attempt to paint me as the one in the wrong here. Or, to troll. I'm not sure which, but I am pretty highly disappointed.

Then again, if we've learned anything on GB&U lately, it's that the "premium tier" accounts are hardly a barrier to questionable behavior.

Sure seems like they're leaving a lot of money on the table.

No. They know full well they're handing that money directly to the flippers (and out of the two TCs that have already been sold on the Exchange, neither one was within 130% of the original retail price).

We are actually going to start limiting them to one per handle material per order. That doesn't do everything you are looking for, but it does slow things down a bit.

So am I to assume from this new policy that some of the concerns I brought up might actually have been a) valid, and b) repeated by other customers?

Reading some of the pro-status quo histrionics in this thread, one might think that was simply impossible.

I'm no GEC fanboy. I own a grand total of zero of them. I just can't stand all this whining, complaining, spamming horse hockey (without any plans to correct the reason for the butthurt).

This is nothing more than a temper tantrum. Tsar, would you agree there is a consensus now, or not quite yet?

I'd agree that you're probably upset over overreacting so badly in another thread that you and some of the others who rushed over to this thread got that one shut down by the OP. I'd agree that clearly there were complaints now or in the past that have led to something as drastic as KSF considering the limitation of orders (and I think we know why). I'd agree that this is not the place to troll. But consensus? No, I'd disagree with that, for reasons that should be obvious by now.

You want a #15 or #14 barlow? It's one of Charlie's. Want a #77 barlow? It's one of Mike's. Even the latest run of #25s only had barlows that were a SFO for Barry.

Speaking of which, on the off chance Mike hasn't written this thread and its increasing rhetoric off completely, would you let on if the #77 run later this year is going to include Barlows? Maybe something useful could come of this after all.

 

[esnyx]

At this point you are actively ignoring the things I have said repeatedly in an attempt to paint me as the one in the wrong here. Or, to troll. I'm not sure which, but I am pretty highly disappointed.

Then again, if we've learned anything on GB&U lately, it's that the "premium tier" accounts are hardly a barrier to questionable behavior.

You have clearly ignored what I posted in an attempt to make me look like the one in the wrong here. Could you answer my question?

Also, you obviously ignored the advice I tried to give you, and have continued to be extremely abrasive and overly defensive.

How has my behavior been even REMOTELY questionable? I am simply trying to help you to stop digging your way to China.

What you have basically repeated throughout this thread is, "I'm right, you're wrong" and "agree with me or take your opinion elsewhere". What on earth is the point of making this thread in a feedback forum if all you wanted was opinions that agreed with your own? I am honestly curious.

Don't inflate your head any further by assuming that this thread is what caused Derrick to change his order policy. Your perceived influence has no bearing in real world knife business practice, especially due to your current behavior. As a knife maker, and as a friend to many other knife makers, and people in the knife business, this sort of attitude is highly indicative of a bad customer. MAJOR RED FLAG

Learn to admit when you are wrong. I do not know what you expected the outcome of this thread, or any of the other threads you have polluted with you whining, would be, but you have gone about it all wrong. What I have interpreted your goal of this thread to be is an outlet for you to complain about GECs business practices, but all you have done is alerted people to the kind of person you are to deal with, a very difficult one.

At this point, my only interest in this debacle is the psychological aspect of it. I am honestly curious what your thoughts and intentions are, and where you think this will lead. If you do decide to respond, please consider answering my initial question, and explain to me what you were seeking in starting this thread. If you can manage to do so in a civil manner, I would be more than willing to help you out(as I have repeatedly stated). You still have a chance to dig your way out of this mess you have put yourself in. Do not get angry because others have pointed out the mess you have made.

 

[rdave]

(Note to self - I hope I didn't write anything wrong here and I hope I don't get a demerit from you know who?)

 

[TsarBomba]

You have clearly ignored what I posted in an attempt to make me look like the one in the wrong here.

I'm literally one post away from tossing you into my twitfilter for trying to ruin a perfectly valid thread.

There hasn't been hardly any contention. Frankly not enough - no hate and no one throwing anything and no name calling.

You get that this is Trads and not W&C, right?

 

[rdave]

I'm literally one post away from tossing you into my twitfilter for trying to ruin a perfectly valid thread.



You get that this is Trads and not W&C, right?

LOL - yes, but surely we can a bit better than this...

 

[TsarBomba]

LOL - yes, but surely we can a bit better than this...

That's something you may want to take up with the mods, in that case.

 

[esnyx]

I'm literally one post away from tossing you into my twitfilter for trying to ruin a perfectly valid thread.

Why? because I am asking you questions that you refuse to respond to? In what way have I behaved like a "twit"?

I am being honest with you and giving you my opinion as a knife collector and maker. I do not tend to tiptoe around, and am rather blunt with what I say. I thought that we could have actually had a discussion on this as reasonable human beings, but you refuse to engage(even though you started this thread).

 

[rdave]

OK - no fun here! LOL

That's something you may want to take up with the mods, in that case.

 

[TsarBomba]

Why? because I am asking you questions that you refuse to respond to? In what way have I behaved like a "twit"?

I am being honest with you and giving you my opinion as a knife collector and maker. I do not tend to tiptoe around, and am rather blunt with what I say. I thought that we could have actually had a discussion on this as reasonable human beings, but you refuse to engage(even though you started this thread).

Let's pretend you were in any way attempting to a) have a reasonable discussion, and b) not troll or make personal attacks. I'm interested to see what questions you feel deserve an answer.

Also, you obviously ignored the advice I tried to give you, and have continued to be extremely abrasive and overly defensive.

Not a good start. This almost screams "Pee Wee Herman" to me, i.e. you're essentially projecting back at me what I stated about your overall timbre in your previous posts. Clearly there's no question to be answered here.

How has my behavior been even REMOTELY questionable? I am simply trying to help you to stop digging your way to China.

Definitely not improving here. That's essentially a personal attack.

What you have basically repeated throughout this thread is, "I'm right, you're wrong" and "agree with me or take your opinion elsewhere". What on earth is the point of making this thread in a feedback forum if all you wanted was opinions that agreed with your own? I am honestly curious.

Oh, look. There's a question. Rhetorical, and exceedingly inflammatory. But it's a question. Still not progress, though.

Don't inflate your head any further by assuming that this thread is what caused Derrick to change his order policy. Your perceived influence has no bearing in real world knife business practice, especially due to your current behavior. As a knife maker, and as a friend to many other knife makers, and people in the knife business, this sort of attitude is highly indicative of a bad customer. MAJOR RED FLAG

Aaaand we're back to no questions and multiple personal attacks. Definitely backsliding here.

Learn to admit when you are wrong. I do not know what you expected the outcome of this thread, or any of the other threads you have polluted with you whining, would be, but you have gone about it all wrong. What I have interpreted your goal of this thread to be is an outlet for you to complain about GECs business practices, but all you have done is alerted people to the kind of person you are to deal with, a very difficult one.

Still no questions! The only question you've attempted in this entire post was clearly rhetorical and meant to be insulting, not inquisitive.

At this point, my only interest in this debacle is the psychological aspect of it. I am honestly curious what your thoughts and intentions are, and where you think this will lead. If you do decide to respond, please consider answering my initial question, and explain to me what you were seeking in starting this thread. If you can manage to do so in a civil manner, I would be more than willing to help you out(as I have repeatedly stated).

Well, this isn't exactly a question, but it was already answered. Witness:

The intent of this thread is to discuss selling practices (in the one place that such practices are allowed to be discussed).
...
Regarding the "flippers"/catch-and-release behavior, that would be a decent subject for this thread, though I'd hope it remains restricted to general discussion of concepts and not any particular sellers/transactions.

Point taken. And if you look at GEC's recent history, their dealers are sitting on what I can only imagine are dozens if not hundreds of unwanted Navy knives. Isn't that only going to push dealers to demand even more short runs and SFOs? In five years, where does that leave people wanting to own a GEC for the love of the knife itself? It can't be healthy for any company in the long term when their products almost exclusively end up in a safe. Look at the vast majority of 'boutique' manufacturers in American history if you need more evidence.

I can promise you neither Queen nor Case are hurting for business either, and yet they don't seem to be trending towards this "exclusively short run/SFO" model. They dabble in that model yet still use a normal production model. Spyderco is the same way.
...

...
Valid and fair point. I consider myself going one step further and exhorting others to vote with me. Innit just politics, in the end?
...
The whole reason this thread exists was to consolidate these thoughts in a "proper" place to allow everyone who wants to continue praising GEC to do so.
...
Clearly I'm not the only one noticing, because there were posts from other users and mods indicating that the idea of coming down on sellers for obvious insta-flips on the Exchange was floated. Why would this happen if it was behavior the Exchange hasn't seen?
...
If GEC were to start suffering the fortunes of, say, a Survive! Knives, any inertia keeping them close to this SFO/short run model would likely disappear in a heartbeat.

I'd also like to point out that the dealers we are talking about, in general, sell more than just GEC products. There is no exclusivity unless a dealer chooses to be. I am not aware of any at this time. So clearly the model is not viable without some external assistance (for dealers).
...

You still have a chance to dig your way out of this mess you have put yourself in. Do not get angry because others have pointed out the mess you have made.

Aaaand we're right back to the trolling/personal insults, complete with a fallacious instance of argumentum ad numerum.

So, clearly, your "questions" (actually "demand", singular) were addressed earlier in this thread. You obviously missed it in your fervor to continue focusing upon me for reasons that elude me. It is with that in mind that I welcome you to my ignore list with hopes that your truculence will not permanently derail this thread.