GEC should get back to basics

I agree that they arent making a lot of bread and butter patterns in a good variety of handle materials, but I feel lik that's kinda their niche.

Connor
 
Well yes, there's a lot of things they could do, but let's not forget what they HAVE done in 10 short years: lit the Traditional Fuse that's for sure.

I too would like more stainless 440c, a tip bolstered pattern, a larger Penknife and some repeats of popular patterns. Frankly, I have difficulty in reigning in my enthusiasm when they do a release I like and can buy non SFO.

One of their basics is generating excitement & desire, they're remarkably good at this basic.

Thanks, Will
 
GEC is all about the basics of Traditional Pocket Cutlery. I would suggest the OP do some research on the Basics and discover what they really are. A good place for anybody to find out about why and how GEC came about, and what they represent is the book Great Eastern Cutlery, An American Tradition by David L. Anthony.
 
Positive feedback is good in any form. But it seems Bill learned long before I did that when it comes to what people are asking for; you have to be very careful. Customers get to wanting something a little different, and for good reasons. But when the factory accommodates that and then sits on the stock for months, they quickly learn to use discerning judgement the next time.

Premium steels for GEC has been discussed many times; not only does it not fit their goals of making knives like they did 80 years ago but it is not compatible with much of their equipment. Not to mention that if they have figured out a way to keep 21 employees on the payroll and sell all the knives they can make, why change now?

GEC has ran 440C several times, and in most cases the factory and the dealers noticed that when the factory asks for numbers - not only is the pre-production demand smaller but they sit on the shelves much longer as well. They do eventually move, so there is not a lot on the shelves today, but when you consider how many fewer were made to begin with it is a less than stellar mover.

Most folks that purchase GEC knives seem to use them. They may have several, and rotate them in / out of use - but it does seem as a large portion are utilized. If they were all being put on a shelf, there would be more demand (and follow thru) on SS as it would not take any maintenance in the display case / folder. But as to reproducing the same exact variation year after year, I don't really see the incentive. They have done it with popular slabs, but from my point of view it only complicates stocking / picking an order if you have a 732112 Ebony and a 732113 Ebony. At one time GEC was trying to break into the "Feed Store" market and have a series of knives that were always available; and they could run a couple times a year. But it just never gained any steam in garnering interest.

So, to the OP's point - what would you need to do as a factory to perpetually have a good stock in several variations of every "usable" pattern?? Either GEC would have to make thousands of each variant and stock them hoping that they were eventually requested from dealers to backfill. What company that is working very hard to stay liquid would want hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of knives sitting in their vault? Or, they could make the exact same variations quarterly in the hopes that the dealers would be requesting more during the quarter. Same question, why take the risk that the market will shift and you will have all your capital in inventory? Given that the lead time between scheduling a knife and it actually being produced is closer to 90 days, I don't think an "on demand" production would work. So, for a small knife company trying to make it in a place/time where others could not; you have to find what works for you. Listening to what patterns the customers are asking the dealers for and then making those knives in a quantity as close to what can be moved quickly out of factory vaults seems to be working for them.

GEC is always tweaking their thinking to fit the market for their products. And although I have seen many of these trends, and had a good bit more explained to me; it is impossible to try and discern all the complications and complexities that arise daily from their position.
 
Railsplitter said:
I'll add that we have already lost too many American knife companies. I think GEC should do whatever it is that keeps them in business, regardless of what I think they should do.
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I THINk this pretty much says it ll. GEC is threading the needle between producing what's cost efficient (knives they know are in demand) and producing knives that fulfill their mission of resurrecting a catalogue of patterns from the past. IT SEEms that they're model of letting SFO"S subsidize their general vision is working well so far. THE company's model has also evolved over time to suit this end and presumably will continue to do so, which is very smart. OVER the years they've organically identified the knives that are their cash crops (!5's, 85's, 25's, 71's, 73's, etc) and SFO's for these patterns drive their production. In between they are able to offer new patterns or bring back great but less demanded patterns (hope to see new run of #12 shadow toothpicks soon!)
 
Pipeman said:
GEC is doing just fine thank you. We don't need no "super steel" :D
Click to expand...

Railsplitter said:
I'll add that we have already lost too many American knife companies. I think GEC should do whatever it is that keeps them in business, regardless of what I think they should do.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:

BigBiscuit said:
We've got a long thread about GEC wants, wishes, and what not here;
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1081593-Lets-talk-GEC!
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
For me it appears as though GEC never abandoned the basics in the first place. The amount of consistency that GEC has had over the years is for me, what is driving their success. What other company consistently puts out multiple "new" patterns every year? Sure, they don't have a standard pattern, scale and blade combination to choose from, but if they offered a more constant one, or two products like lets say like Case does with a Yellow scaled trapper, then they are limiting their own ability to grow with other patterns. Having spoken with Bill Howard face to face many times, it's obvious to me that he wants to bring back the old patterns of yesteryear. This is someone who is trying to have a profitable business, as well as an avenue to express his passion for the old time cutlery styles.

With 21 employees how can they accomplish much more then they already do?
Yes, collectors keep cutlery companies alive today, but not every knife is intended for vaults and display cases!
 
From a market point of view GEC is doing it great, I mean they sell almost everything they make in a more or less short time.
From my point of view though I'm very tired of the scarcity, I mean It's brilliant for them. But I only want knives that I like and because I'm always in and out of knife world I never get what I would like to get. I know Is an egoist point of view but a I would like a minimum constant production.
examples of Knives that I didn't get:
- 25 drop and clip point
- 62 whittler (replacement)
- 66 jack
- 15 barlow
- 83 ebony lockback

So I'm done with them, at least until they have a mininum continous catalog where I can buy a replacement of a knife I'm used to use and like.
Sorry for being so harsh but It was really disappointing losing that whittler.
I think they are great knives to use, but no user would buy if cannot buy a replacement.
they orient their marketing and production strategy to collectors(which sadly is the only real knife market alive), which is totally understandable and they have a lot of merit being able to grow in such an hostile enviroment.

Mateo
 
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knifeswapper said:
Positive feedback is good in any form. But it seems Bill learned long before I did that when it comes to what people are asking for; you have to be very careful. Customers get to wanting something a little different, and for good reasons. But when the factory accommodates that and then sits on the stock for months, they quickly learn to use discerning judgement the next time.

Premium steels for GEC has been discussed many times; not only does it not fit their goals of making knives like they did 80 years ago but it is not compatible with much of their equipment. Not to mention that if they have figured out a way to keep 21 employees on the payroll and sell all the knives they can make, why change now?

GEC has ran 440C several times, and in most cases the factory and the dealers noticed that when the factory asks for numbers - not only is the pre-production demand smaller but they sit on the shelves much longer as well. They do eventually move, so there is not a lot on the shelves today, but when you consider how many fewer were made to begin with it is a less than stellar mover.

Most folks that purchase GEC knives seem to use them. They may have several, and rotate them in / out of use - but it does seem as a large portion are utilized. If they were all being put on a shelf, there would be more demand (and follow thru) on SS as it would not take any maintenance in the display case / folder. But as to reproducing the same exact variation year after year, I don't really see the incentive. They have done it with popular slabs, but from my point of view it only complicates stocking / picking an order if you have a 732112 Ebony and a 732113 Ebony. At one time GEC was trying to break into the "Feed Store" market and have a series of knives that were always available; and they could run a couple times a year. But it just never gained any steam in garnering interest.

So, to the OP's point - what would you need to do as a factory to perpetually have a good stock in several variations of every "usable" pattern?? Either GEC would have to make thousands of each variant and stock them hoping that they were eventually requested from dealers to backfill. What company that is working very hard to stay liquid would want hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of knives sitting in their vault? Or, they could make the exact same variations quarterly in the hopes that the dealers would be requesting more during the quarter. Same question, why take the risk that the market will shift and you will have all your capital in inventory? Given that the lead time between scheduling a knife and it actually being produced is closer to 90 days, I don't think an "on demand" production would work. So, for a small knife company trying to make it in a place/time where others could not; you have to find what works for you. Listening to what patterns the customers are asking the dealers for and then making those knives in a quantity as close to what can be moved quickly out of factory vaults seems to be working for them.

GEC is always tweaking their thinking to fit the market for their products. And although I have seen many of these trends, and had a good bit more explained to me; it is impossible to try and discern all the complications and complexities that arise daily from their position.
Click to expand...

Awesome post Mike! I think that spells it out. I generally like what GEC is doing, they have a different business model than say Case.

I do hope they make:

1. Jigged bone covers that look more like some of those cool old Schrade Peach Seed
2. Corn Cob Jigged Bone
3. A clip blade peanut
4. A long pull 15 again
 
They are not sitting on their hands at GEC. They are making knives as fast as they can.
This year is essentially booked up! No matter what they make it sells, so it's a tribute to Bill's experience and judgement - he's doing it right!
Canal street staggered and fell, as did Schrade and Camillus. I understand Queen is struggling to gain their footing. It's not an easy business to thrive in!!
Bill didn't always get a paycheck in the earlier years. It's only his determination and persistence that is making GEC survive. Many could try, but few could survive!!
Do I think they should change things up? Puhleeeze!!!

Frankly, if you put a lot of miles on a knife, using it regularly, then A) you know 1095 steel works really well, taking and keeping an edge easily, and B) a little maintenance goes a long way.

Super steels, are an un-needed complexity and cost, passed on to the consumer - us!!

And 440C is much better than 420HC IMO, if stainless is needed or desired.
 
I'd just like to throw this out there re "super steels".. I use a great many of my GEC knives, Iuse them for eveything, cutting lots of heavy leather, carving wood, peeling potatos, every cutting need. For the past 6 months or more I have been using a lick creek farmers jack that I sharpened wth a diamond steel when it first arrived, since then I have never sharpened it again, just stropped on stopping board I made. No blade loss at all and always razor sharp. That's 1095 for ya. :D

Best regards

Robin
 
Pipeman said:
For the past 6 months or more I have been using a lick creek farmers jack that I sharpened wth a diamond steel when it first arrived, since then I have never sharpened it again, just stropped on stopping board I made. No blade loss at all and always razor sharp. That's 1095 for ya. :D
Click to expand...

Sounds super enough to me Robin! :rolleyes: :thumbup:
 
waynorth said:
Bill didn't always get a paycheck in the earlier years. It's only his determination and persistence that is making GEC survive.
Click to expand...

As a small business owner myself, Charlie makes an apt point here. The owners of GEC get paid last. In start up years, that means you get paid little to nothing. I know, I've been there and done that. The owners of GEC put in the sweat equity to make their company. They have made a company. More importantly, they have made a clientbase. So long as they keep and expand that client base, there will be a GEC. That is business 101. But, for a small business, and it is a small business, to churn out knives to sit on shelves....well, that model doesn't work. Tell me, where are Schrade, Camillus, Imperial, Colonial, and such companies? The only one left is Buck. If you think GEC is a serious competitor to Buck, you're kidding yourself.
 
Railsplitter said:
I'll add that we have already lost too many American knife companies. I think GEC should do whatever it is that keeps them in business, regardless of what I think they should do.
Click to expand...
Our day dreaming over one or two patterns that we'd like to see, will not feed the families of the men and women that work at GEC. Bill's business plan keeps us, the customer, in knives, and his employees fed with a roof over their heads. I agree.


knifeswapper said:
Positive feedback is good in any form. But it seems Bill learned long before I did that when it comes to what people are asking for; you have to be very careful. Customers get to wanting something a little different, and for good reasons. But when the factory accommodates that and then sits on the stock for months, they quickly learn to use discerning judgement the next time.

Premium steels for GEC has been discussed many times; not only does it not fit their goals of making knives like they did 80 years ago but it is not compatible with much of their equipment. Not to mention that if they have figured out a way to keep 21 employees on the payroll and sell all the knives they can make, why change now?

GEC has ran 440C several times, and in most cases the factory and the dealers noticed that when the factory asks for numbers - not only is the pre-production demand smaller but they sit on the shelves much longer as well. They do eventually move, so there is not a lot on the shelves today, but when you consider how many fewer were made to begin with it is a less than stellar mover.

Most folks that purchase GEC knives seem to use them. They may have several, and rotate them in / out of use - but it does seem as a large portion are utilized. If they were all being put on a shelf, there would be more demand (and follow thru) on SS as it would not take any maintenance in the display case / folder. But as to reproducing the same exact variation year after year, I don't really see the incentive. They have done it with popular slabs, but from my point of view it only complicates stocking / picking an order if you have a 732112 Ebony and a 732113 Ebony. At one time GEC was trying to break into the "Feed Store" market and have a series of knives that were always available; and they could run a couple times a year. But it just never gained any steam in garnering interest.

So, to the OP's point - what would you need to do as a factory to perpetually have a good stock in several variations of every "usable" pattern?? Either GEC would have to make thousands of each variant and stock them hoping that they were eventually requested from dealers to backfill. What company that is working very hard to stay liquid would want hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of knives sitting in their vault? Or, they could make the exact same variations quarterly in the hopes that the dealers would be requesting more during the quarter. Same question, why take the risk that the market will shift and you will have all your capital in inventory? Given that the lead time between scheduling a knife and it actually being produced is closer to 90 days, I don't think an "on demand" production would work. So, for a small knife company trying to make it in a place/time where others could not; you have to find what works for you. Listening to what patterns the customers are asking the dealers for and then making those knives in a quantity as close to what can be moved quickly out of factory vaults seems to be working for them.

GEC is always tweaking their thinking to fit the market for their products. And although I have seen many of these trends, and had a good bit more explained to me; it is impossible to try and discern all the complications and complexities that arise daily from their position.
Click to expand...

That is a great explanation Mike. Thanks for sharing.
 
Mike...couldn't be stated any better sir. Well said.

To the people looking for certain knives, hang in there. Check the exchnage, the GEC dealer network and the Bay. I see just about every pattern come across at one point or another. Easy as going to the local store? No. Easy as a simple click to purchase anytime you want? No. Will you appreciate the knife more when you finally do get exactly what you want? Absolutely!

I for one, unequivocally, do not want GEC to go the way of the others and just start pumping knives out like crazy. If you want that kind of availability, buy a Case. They're much cheaper and easier to get. You can have the exact same knife that 10,000 other people have. I don't want that knife.
 
Jake, I totally agree with you on what I feel is a semi custom production knife. I've had Buck, Case, and Schrade( not American made) when I was a teenager and it was a knife. I started watching a few reviews on youtube almost by accident and I decided to call a dealer and try one. I saw pics of a clip point 77 old red and thought it was beautiful. I called a dealer and found they were all gone and were right away. I was bummed when I found out about the process and then I saw the price and thought woah! So was convinced to try a 15 single sheep instead at a fair price- $60.00 but I thought it was high, until I held it used it. As luck would have it, I found my old red clip four months later, and I treasure it!

No factory knife I've bought compares to the quality and craftsmanship of GEC. I have limmited experience but I don't think they need to change strategy or supersteels.

I do wonder however if GEC could make a few 440HC in the Tidioute and Northfield. Perhaps some people don't want patina at first and they like a configuration in Tidioute but don't like how it's changed in GEC version. Example: I like 42 in stag with long pull, GEC 440HC was in elk and had a nail nick. Perhaps if they're identical pairings they would sell better.
 
Seems to me like they are doing OK. I am not really in a position to make recommendations or suggestions on how someone should run their business. I have my own job to worry about doing well.

I get the frustration of having missed out on a GEC knife run and then having to wait a couple of years (or never) before they ever repeat something you might want. That's just how it is.
 
Also I remember when i bought that first knife and was asked how many I wanted. I remember thinking yikes this is expensive I only want one. However the point many of you have made it true and the next time some patterns come around I've waited for I'll definitely be in for a few. Perhaps this is why they sell well.
 
I agree with others that feel that GEC has found a good business model and should stick with it. I have to admit that I am often frustrated that my favorite patterns are in short supply or sold out on the dealer sites. I have also scratched my head a few times, wondering who at GEC thought certain patterns would sell well (lady legs...) and of course I selfishly would like them to only produce my favorite patterns in my favorite handle materials.
 
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