I'm not privy to to the company profit and loss statements so I will refrain from commenting on what the company should or should not do to maximize profits. Based solely on anecdotal evidence it appears there must be substantial revenue produced from special factory orders with no risk to the company which might explain why the company does not produce knives in patterns and quantities sufficient for dealers to inventory and sell to customers thus running the risk of such knives not being purchased by dealers. Why would you take the risk if you know you can get paid up front for SFOs?
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GEC should get back to basics
- Thread starter Memphis Tiger
- Start date
I'm finding this thread somewhat confusing...
The OP says "GEC should get back to basics". From my point of view, GEC is the most "basic" knife manufacturer in the USA. They produce a fairly broad variety of traditional patterns in natural and synthetic handle materials and pretty "basic" steels.
"Traditional" pocket knives are a niche market. Whether we like it or not, or want to admit it or not, collectors (and accumulators) make up the bulk of the customer base. From what I see in "traditional" American cutlery today, GEC has the knife user covered as well as, or better than any.
The OP says "GEC should get back to basics". From my point of view, GEC is the most "basic" knife manufacturer in the USA. They produce a fairly broad variety of traditional patterns in natural and synthetic handle materials and pretty "basic" steels.
"Traditional" pocket knives are a niche market. Whether we like it or not, or want to admit it or not, collectors (and accumulators) make up the bulk of the customer base. From what I see in "traditional" American cutlery today, GEC has the knife user covered as well as, or better than any.
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2013
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- 63
I'm glad my post generated so much commentary. That was the point. I appreciate your thoughts and enthusiasm.
To be clear, I am not being critical of GEC, I'm just saying I wish it were easier to get more "standard" patterns in a variety of scale finishes. Sure they make a variety of earlier patterns, which I am well aware of, but stockmen, trappers, peanuts, single blade lock backs and a few others rose to the top for a reason over the years. Perhaps they could produce a few more runs of these without going into mass production, instead of the sod busters and pruners that are coming out now. I'm not suggesting a radical change to their business model.
As for the blade material, I like 1095, have applied a variety of patinas on it and can get it razor sharp. I do have challenges keeping the rust off, even with regular wipes with a cloth coated in 3 in 1 oil. Any ideas there?
Seriously wanting a stockman in yellow jigged bone.
To be clear, I am not being critical of GEC, I'm just saying I wish it were easier to get more "standard" patterns in a variety of scale finishes. Sure they make a variety of earlier patterns, which I am well aware of, but stockmen, trappers, peanuts, single blade lock backs and a few others rose to the top for a reason over the years. Perhaps they could produce a few more runs of these without going into mass production, instead of the sod busters and pruners that are coming out now. I'm not suggesting a radical change to their business model.
As for the blade material, I like 1095, have applied a variety of patinas on it and can get it razor sharp. I do have challenges keeping the rust off, even with regular wipes with a cloth coated in 3 in 1 oil. Any ideas there?
Seriously wanting a stockman in yellow jigged bone.
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- Nov 11, 2002
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- 1,969
There is no way any knife company is going to be able to make every knife knut happy as you see these exact same type of threads in this forum on GEC, the Buck guys, Spyderco, Benchmade, etc.
As Bob mentioned earlier, this discussion pops up on a pretty regular basis. Makes good fodder for thought though.
GEC seems to be doing well with their business model and I'm pleased for them. Speaking for myself, I haven't purchased too many of their models as their most recent models just don't appeal to me. And I frankly feel their pricing structure is geared more to the collectors than average user/buyers. They aren't using that exotic of materials. But, I acknowledge they are a small company in a large company dominated market so with their smaller production runs, they need to be a bit more expensive than maybe a similar model Case or USA made Buck in order to keep the doors open. So that's ok. I would like to see perhaps a few more separate models run rather than one model offered with so many handle materials or colors. Sometime it seems like a lot. That's just a casual observation though as I don't look that close once I see if it's a model that appeals to me or not.
What I've learned to do with models I like, from anyone, is once I check one out, I'll bite the bullet and buy a couple extras as I figure they'll either be discontinued or may not come around again for a long time.
I too would prefer stainless offerings more often and that is just a personal preference. I don't think anyone is saying they "need" a more premium steel. The Pony Jack in 1095 is one of my very favorites from them. 1095 is a great steel and has been for years and years. I think maybe some of the frustration comes from seeing other makers wares using, what's deemed pretty common nowadays, S30v, CPM154, flavors of 440, etc., in knives that cost half the price of a GEC in some instances. That may be some of the lack of appeal to younger enthusiasts as they didn't grow up with 1095 and 440 being pretty much the only steels there were. Never before has there been such a revolution in the blade steel manufacturing.
But that's an apples and oranges thing that goes back to large companies with large manufacturing abilities, compared to the less than 50 employees of a company like GEC. I'd imagine GEC's margin is fairly thin. I'd really hate for them to fall off the stage as well. So if what they are doing is what's working, full speed ahead.
As Bob mentioned earlier, this discussion pops up on a pretty regular basis. Makes good fodder for thought though.
GEC seems to be doing well with their business model and I'm pleased for them. Speaking for myself, I haven't purchased too many of their models as their most recent models just don't appeal to me. And I frankly feel their pricing structure is geared more to the collectors than average user/buyers. They aren't using that exotic of materials. But, I acknowledge they are a small company in a large company dominated market so with their smaller production runs, they need to be a bit more expensive than maybe a similar model Case or USA made Buck in order to keep the doors open. So that's ok. I would like to see perhaps a few more separate models run rather than one model offered with so many handle materials or colors. Sometime it seems like a lot. That's just a casual observation though as I don't look that close once I see if it's a model that appeals to me or not.
What I've learned to do with models I like, from anyone, is once I check one out, I'll bite the bullet and buy a couple extras as I figure they'll either be discontinued or may not come around again for a long time.
I too would prefer stainless offerings more often and that is just a personal preference. I don't think anyone is saying they "need" a more premium steel. The Pony Jack in 1095 is one of my very favorites from them. 1095 is a great steel and has been for years and years. I think maybe some of the frustration comes from seeing other makers wares using, what's deemed pretty common nowadays, S30v, CPM154, flavors of 440, etc., in knives that cost half the price of a GEC in some instances. That may be some of the lack of appeal to younger enthusiasts as they didn't grow up with 1095 and 440 being pretty much the only steels there were. Never before has there been such a revolution in the blade steel manufacturing.
But that's an apples and oranges thing that goes back to large companies with large manufacturing abilities, compared to the less than 50 employees of a company like GEC. I'd imagine GEC's margin is fairly thin. I'd really hate for them to fall off the stage as well. So if what they are doing is what's working, full speed ahead.
I agree with you and your comment about a niche market. The market for "upscale" folders appears to be driven by collectors some of whom are users. GEC and others who have a product which caters to such a market need to do what they perceive will maximize profit. From the manufacturer's perspective in a niche market the best and most profitable market is one in which dealers commit to purchase all of the inventory, i.e. special factory orders which provide no risk to the manufacturer.
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IMO GEC has managed to make the same product as other companies but still managed to position their products in a different segment of the market.
I'd think it'll keep them viable.
I'd think it'll keep them viable.
What is/was the difference between market segment of Canal Street and GEC? Is market segment the controlling factor or is it something else.
Bigfattyt
Gold Member
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- Jun 23, 2007
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- 19,226
I agree, that they need more stainless, but the stainless they do produce is 440C, which is a better steel than Bucks 420 HC. They just don't release enough of them.
As to colors, and patterns, I think they are pumping them out as fast as they can. They are a small production company.
Yup, 'xactly. I just wish they'd hurry up with that monster camp knife!!
If only there were some way to convince the noble wizards who are attempting to will a '16 forum knife into existence that the Texas scout was the bestest scout...
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This ^^^
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GEC does a wide variety of patterns in short runs often without repeating.
I really think CSC made a great knife, but they made the same thing for years with little variation.
What GEC did was create and maintain excitement through a variety of offerings that would be limited in supply.
It's cheaper to make a knife in 1095 than 440C or a premium steel. That's a good reason to keep making 1095 knives as long as they sell. Keeps the profit margin up. In addition, 1095 gives them a "discriminator" when it comes to comparisons with Case or Buck. That's why Queen went to ATS34 and D2 about 15 years ago.
People get bored, so having a set number of patterns you produce all the time will sooner or later lead to lower sales after boredom sets in. That's why Case discontinues and then brings back various models. GEC is too small to risk boredom in its customers. That's why having a limited number of knives per pattern builds demand among collectors. It's the same marketing concept as any limited edition collectible. You can read in this thread the "GEC-fever" in those who "missed-out". This type of psychological sales technique builds demand for the next GEC that tickles your fancy..."get it now before it's gone." It's a classic marketing strategy, and GEC is continuing what they did at Queen with the S&M File and Wire Series, but with 1095 steel.
Although people may use their GEC knives, per the pictures on this forum and in the for sale area, there are a lot of GEC safe queens. Their market is not "user knives" for the every day guy or gal.
In my estimation, GEC is "back to basics" when it comes to marketing and manufacturing concepts for a small firm making collectibles, particularly in a relatively small market such as collectible traditional pocket knives.
In addition, 1095 gives them a "discriminator" when it comes to comparisons with Case or Buck. That's why Queen went to ATS34 and D2 about 15 years ago. People get bored, so having a set number of patterns you produce all the time will sooner or later lead to lower sales after boredom sets in. That's why Case discontinues and then brings back various models. GEC is too small to risk boredom in its customers. That's why having a limited number of knives per pattern builds demand among collectors. It's the same marketing concept as any limited edition collectible. You can read in this thread the "GEC-fever" in those who "missed-out". This type of psychological sales technique builds demand for the next GEC that tickles your fancy..."get it now before it's gone." It's a classic marketing strategy, and GEC is continuing what they did at Queen with the S&M File and Wire Series, but with 1095 steel.
Although people may use their GEC knives, per the pictures on this forum and in the for sale area, there are a lot of GEC safe queens. Their market is not "user knives" for the every day guy or gal.
In my estimation, GEC is "back to basics" when it comes to marketing and manufacturing concepts for a small firm making collectibles, particularly in a relatively small market such as collectible traditional pocket knives.
meako
Gold Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2006
- Messages
- 9,911
Well said.
Whilst I'm not a fan of every pattern they make ,at the very least GEC has something for everyone.
"GEC-fever" in those who "missed-out". This type of psychological sales technique builds demand for the next GEC that tickles your fancy..."get it now before it's gone."
How true! -try getting hold of a bottle green Viper -they have been out for like a week and I can't find one.:grumpy
id a preorder for Snakewood tho
silenthunterstudios
Slipjoint Addict
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- Feb 2, 2005
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- 20,039
I've only been in a few knife shops and seen dealers wares at shows. Some were very enthusiastic when GEC first produced knives but were turned off by the bear trap springs. I actually bought a trapper at a great price from a shop, you couldn't pinch it open but other than that, it wasn't too bad compared to their first few years (some of their knives, not all). I bought it, and showed them the 15s I had, the 73 etc. They were very interested but were still put off by their previous experiences. Case, Queen and Victorinox were their top slipjoint sellers, but they had a great Canal Street collection, sort of their niche brand, people really liked those. Anyway, I'm going to ask the shop manager if she's going to pick up the GEC contract now that she sold out of CSC. She and her father, the shop owner, had seen them at Blade, maybe some at SHOT, and they were not too impressed. The owner liked the ones I showed him, but no dice yet. I think the small number runs puts brick and mortar shops off a bit, they aren't used to how to deal with it. A shop on the other side of me has a few GEC models. Some have sat for two years, I traded him some of mine, shocker, and he loves the company (carries a 47 I gave him for taking good care of me over the years, and he carries that with a $5000 William Henry). Others seem to fly off the shelves, yes, they make a pit stop at the register first 
.
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traumkommode
Gold Member
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- Dec 3, 2015
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For what it's worth, Memphis Tiger, I have "torture tested" a GEC. I was curious to see how tough they were, what with all the "overbuilt" modern folder marketing that exists. Pried with darn most of my bodyweight. The blade flexed to about 35 degrees, but didn't snap, and straightened back out when I let off. The pivot got loose, but the knife still opened and closed. In the end, after everything I did to it, it took using tools to get the thing to actually break, and what broke was the bone cover. So the 1095 is pretty good, ya know?
When it comes to variety/collecting, waiting and hunting are part of what makes this fun. The excitement of "ooh, what's going to pop up on the exchange today?", or waiting to see what comes up for pre-order at a dealer, or waiting to see what's left. A lot of guys collections are put together over years' time.
When it comes to variety/collecting, waiting and hunting are part of what makes this fun. The excitement of "ooh, what's going to pop up on the exchange today?", or waiting to see what comes up for pre-order at a dealer, or waiting to see what's left. A lot of guys collections are put together over years' time.
bikerector
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
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- Nov 16, 2016
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- 6,785
Besides my desire for 440c or D2, I like what GEC is doing. It seems like the put out a lot of variety for the way their operations works and it seems like they put out a lot of knives people want.
To be honest, one of the parts of why I would like a stainless is because I don't have to worry about it getting pepper spots in storage. It's a small problem, especially since I'm more of a user than a collector, but it would be a convenience. I also find 1095, just okay, and nothing special, but far from awful. Let's face it, you're paying a lot for their F&F, which is pretty outstanding compared to the other traditionals I've purchased, with exception to AG Russell and Boker, both of which have surprised me quite a bit for the value and level of craftmanship. However, neither are made in the US either and thus the cost reduction.
If anything, I wish they had more variety in the covers as there are just so many awesome woods, bone colorations, and micartas (I'm not a stag person at all) that it seems like they could take one patter and make a lot of scale variations to add a little more uniqueness to each pattern as you limit the availability of a specific color. However, scales of manufacturing makes me think ordering many small amounts of materials would add even more to the cost of their already premium price level.
To be honest, one of the parts of why I would like a stainless is because I don't have to worry about it getting pepper spots in storage. It's a small problem, especially since I'm more of a user than a collector, but it would be a convenience. I also find 1095, just okay, and nothing special, but far from awful. Let's face it, you're paying a lot for their F&F, which is pretty outstanding compared to the other traditionals I've purchased, with exception to AG Russell and Boker, both of which have surprised me quite a bit for the value and level of craftmanship. However, neither are made in the US either and thus the cost reduction.
If anything, I wish they had more variety in the covers as there are just so many awesome woods, bone colorations, and micartas (I'm not a stag person at all) that it seems like they could take one patter and make a lot of scale variations to add a little more uniqueness to each pattern as you limit the availability of a specific color. However, scales of manufacturing makes me think ordering many small amounts of materials would add even more to the cost of their already premium price level.
screened porch
Basic Member
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- Feb 19, 2012
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Gave me a turn seeing Big Biscuit's face again.