Get out the tar and feathers...

[A.L.]

I checked the traditionals for sale section here in BF and noticed there's pretty decent offerings for reasonable prices especially when used. Unless you are looking for clean one to show off or specific pattern you could get them fairly well. I'm saying because in few years I think I've seen only one for sale where I live.

 

[Alex.Y.]

Overall, reading this thread made me hope that Mr. Howard doesn't read BF. I can image what mood it might take him into, man.

Also, it really smells like a "hate" kind of thread. The initial tone is a bit trolling-like, you know. "My GEC knife is of a bad quality". Okay, it happens, we understand. Let's discuss the flaw, if you wish. "It was an expensive one and I am really frustrated!". Alright, we feel ya. "I am tired of people praising GEC!". Dude, just don't read those praisings.

And yes, people tend to repeat the same things over and over again. New people come and say "it's so unobtainable", people who can't get them for a long time say "they ain't worth it, there are many other traditional knafs manufacturers around", people who receive those rare bad examples... well, they start threads like this one out of frustration. Nothing changes.

 

[DustinK]

GEC is clearly the best knife factory. Their knives look and feel the best. They faithfully recreate vintage patterns. They make nice full blades. Other brands tend to have shorter blades compared the overall length of the handle. The blades also have beautiful swedges. Some other brands don’t even add swedges. Take a look at the clip-point blade from a GEC 15 pattern and then compare it to one of Case’s or Boker’s clip-point knives. The aesthetics aren’t even close.

Those that feel GEC pulls are too hard are probably not familiar with what a pocket knife should feel like. Please don’t ask for softer pulls and ruin it for the rest of us.

I will agree that GEC’s standard light jigging pattern is not my favorite. I wish they would do more random and rounded jigging. I do wish that they would polish their Northfield polished blades to a higher level. I do wish they would put shields back on most stag knives. I do wish they would not do satin finishes on any of the wood or Micarta knives. I do wish they would stop with the pin—edged light red dyed knives and get some truly deep red dyed bone.

Well we can’t all be knife experts here and know what knives “should be like”. We can end the thread now that the professional is here.

 

[mrknife]

Overall, reading this thread made me hope that Mr. Howard doesn't read BF. I can image what mood it might take him into, man.

Also, it really smells like a "hate" kind of thread. The initial tone is a bit trolling-like, you know. "My GEC knife is of a bad quality". Okay, it happens, we understand. Let's discuss the flaw, if you wish. "It was an expensive one and I am really frustrated!". Alright, we feel ya. "I am tired of people praising GEC!". Dude, just don't read those praisings.

And yes, people tend to repeat the same things over and over again. New people come and say "it's so unobtainable", people who can't get them for a long time say "they ain't worth it, there are many other traditional knafs manufacturers around", people who receive those rare bad examples... well, they start threads like this one out of frustration. Nothing changes.

Oh I tell Bill every time I am there for a rendezvous. Last year's gripe was the amount of cocobolo used on what like 5-6 runs? And a favorite topic always is single blade production. Bill takes my chides with good humor and amusement and replies in kind always. In fact, the other rendezvous, Bill had quipped when he saw me score double 86s for one of my last runs in the shop before departing that id already have them deleted by the time I left. Bill knows.

 

[JD Bear]

They're well made and I like em. Some I'll pay for and some I won't. The only thing I don't always get is the decision on patterns being produced. I don't think it'd be a bad thing if they actually revisited certain patterns more often. If they took one popular pattern, like a 47, 35, 44, etc., and made 10,000 of them in one good cover like ironwood, they would still sell in days. Honestly, how many people really need a cotton sampler??

 

[JD Bear]

There's a GEC model or two I'd love to have, but I'm just not playing the game.
I wish they were something I could buy, but they aren't and that's fine.

I can live with out them, and have found I'm better off just forgetting the ones I can't have and pretty much ignoring GEC all together.
I'm happier not thinking about them, and it keeps me from constantly bringing up my problems with their business model.
I can wish their business model worked for me, but it works for plenty of others and that's their target market so I just need to accept the fact that GEC simply isn't the knife company for me.

Surprise surprise...

 

[birdsbeaks]

After reading through all the replies, I've determined that if anyone believes they could do it better and has the inclination -- they should set up shop and do it. Teach GEC, and us all, a thing or two.

It would most likely be a profitable venture eventually, would make the traditional crowd exceedingly happy (and exceedingly angry at times), would create jobs for skilled Americans, and maybe even help revitalize an impoverished area.

I recently saw a YouTube video in which a man was driving around Gary, Indiana (named after someone influential in the U.S. Steel organization - nice lineage!) showing the collapse of the city since the steel mill's closing. Terrible poverty, crime, and unemployment rates - very sad. I bet a knife manufacturer operating in a historic steel town with some good marketing about the revitalization of the community could sell a bunch of knives. oh - and the real estate is plentiful and dirt cheap with salaries at about half the national average - so, cheap labor too.

It's easy to identify problems -- anyone can do it. What's more interesting is effective solutions to those problems.

Be the change you want to see.

 

[mrknife]

if i recall, Randy did post, GEC is hiring...

 

[CVamberbonehead]

I had a GEC 38 farmer with a pin crack a while back that I called about getting new covers on. It was in a cover that I’m not sure they’ve ever made since then. They told me they couldn’t replace it because then the knife would be a 1 of 1 and would be worth a ton. They get inquiries like that all the time. I totally understand why they wouldn’t do it. Flippers would be taking advantage of them all the time!

Their business model is perfect for collectors. You can go to their website and see just about every knife they’ve ever made and how many were made. It makes the chase fun. The knives really aren’t all that hard to get when they’re new. You just have to be patient and know where to look.

That should have been warranteed. If they tell you that they cant honor their already lame warranty because it would cost them money....thats pretty bad. Not really a warranty at all. I get their point but honoring it selectively when it suits them and it wouldnt be much trouble or cost, they should tell customers that. "Dont use your knife at all because we wont honor our word if it has a problem" is just unacceptable.

They should have replaced your knife with a new one. But they couldnt do that because they only make a tiny number of knives and patterns. So, how is that manufacturing/business model working out for your collecting personally? Lol We are in the same boat though, because if I wanted to get my knife fixed after the bone splinter I would get told to pound sand since I have used it.

They should have given you a new knife of whatever pattern they had on hand at least.

 

[Signalprick]

After reading through all the replies, I've determined that if anyone believes they could do it better and has the inclination -- they should set up shop and do it. Teach GEC, and us all, a thing or two.

It would most likely be a profitable venture eventually, would make the traditional crowd exceedingly happy (and exceedingly angry at times), would create jobs for skilled Americans, and maybe even help revitalize an impoverished area.

I recently saw a YouTube video in which a man was driving around Gary, Indiana (named after someone influential in the U.S. Steel organization - nice lineage!) showing the collapse of the city since the steel mill's closing. Terrible poverty, crime, and unemployment rates - very sad. I bet a knife manufacturer operating in a historic steel town with some good marketing about the revitalization of the community could sell a bunch of knives. oh - and the real estate is plentiful and dirt cheap with salaries at about half the national average - so, cheap labor too.

It's easy to identify problems -- anyone can do it. What's more interesting is effective solutions to those problems.

Be the change you want to see.

I believe you are overestimating the profit margin and payroll size of a company like GEC and their impact on the local community. The reason no one else is doing it is because making pocket knives is terribly labor intensive and very hard to do unlike a modern locking folder. The machines it requires to do some of the processes practically does not even exist anymore. And if it does there are even less talented people who have the knowledge to keep them profitable and in good repair let alone operate them. Bill Howard is a national treasure IMO once you get down to the nuts and bolts of it.

 

[CVamberbonehead]

I checked the traditionals for sale section here in BF and noticed there's pretty decent offerings for reasonable prices especially when used. Unless you are looking for clean one to show off or specific pattern you could get them fairly well. I'm saying because in few years I think I've seen only one for sale where I live.

Like I mentioned here, the exchange is the only way I even have any of their knives.

 

[Heathenhymnal]

Honestly, how many people really need a cotton sampler??

While I agree to an extent, I also think their approach here is a big part of what has made them successful; they offer a lot of patterns other manufacturers don't, especially when it comes to historic patterns... and historic unique patterns cater pretty hard to the long time hardcore traditional community/collectors.

 

[CVamberbonehead]

Well we can’t all be knife experts here and know what knives “should be like”. We can end the thread now that the professional is here.

Thanks, beat me to it. Lol
Also, Case has swedged knives. Look at a Saddlehorn, Panama Trapper, and plenty more. Must not be expert enough I guess. Lol

 

[kamagong]

On their best day, GEC has not made a great knife. Let me explain. To me, a knife can only be great with years and years of steady carry and use. Memories! I'm more apt to drool over a U.S.-made Old Timer that some old dude carried every day for 30 years than any fresh-from-the-box product. Case, Schrade, Boker, German Eye ..... it doesn't matter. Here are a couple videos showing knives that, while "imperfect," have been worn over time into pieces of art:

Is that your criteria for greatness? That a knife be used? If so, here is a great knife that was made by GEC.

It wasn't carried for thirty years because GEC hasn't been around that long, but that knife was carried continuously for 10 years -- the first 5 years as an actual EDC, the rest of the time being a primary carry during the week and sometimes being switched out for another on weekends.

That knife would still be working towards that 30 year goal if I hadn't lost it recently. Still stings, that knife was a trusted tool and was a birthday gift from my daughter. Whoever found it is lucky, he now has himself a great knife.

 

[CVamberbonehead]

After reading through all the replies, I've determined that if anyone believes they could do it better and has the inclination -- they should set up shop and do it. Teach GEC, and us all, a thing or two.

It would most likely be a profitable venture eventually, would make the traditional crowd exceedingly happy (and exceedingly angry at times), would create jobs for skilled Americans, and maybe even help revitalize an impoverished area.

I recently saw a YouTube video in which a man was driving around Gary, Indiana (named after someone influential in the U.S. Steel organization - nice lineage!) showing the collapse of the city since the steel mill's closing. Terrible poverty, crime, and unemployment rates - very sad. I bet a knife manufacturer operating in a historic steel town with some good marketing about the revitalization of the community could sell a bunch of knives. oh - and the real estate is plentiful and dirt cheap with salaries at about half the national average - so, cheap labor too.

It's easy to identify problems -- anyone can do it. What's more interesting is effective solutions to those problems.

Be the change you want to see.

Or, I could just put out my opinion on this public forum like a regular person. Boom. Done. Lol

 

[Heathenhymnal]

Is that your criteria for greatness? That a knife be used? If so, here is a great knife that was made by GEC.

It wasn't carried for thirty years because GEC hasn't been around that long, but that knife was carried continuously for 10 years -- the first 5 years as an actual EDC, the rest of the time being a primary carry during the week and sometimes being switched out for another on weekends.

That knife would still be working towards that 30 year goal if I hadn't lost it recently. Still stings, that knife was a trusted tool and was a birthday gift from my daughter. Whoever found it is lucky, he now has himself a great knife.

I'll add to that, here is my greatest GEC I've been using since 09:

 

[birdsbeaks]

I believe you are overestimating the profit margin and payroll size of a company like GEC and their impact on the local community. The reason no one else is doing it is because making pocket knives is terribly labor intensive and very hard to do unlike a modern locking folder. The machines it requires to do some of the processes practically does not even exist anymore. And if it does there are even less talented people who have the knowledge to keep them profitable and in good repair let alone operate them. Bill Howard is a national treasure IMO once you get down to the nuts and bolts of it.

It seems that the national treasure has demonstrated that, if done correctly, it could be a "profitable venture eventually" -- as I stated.

I didn't imply that anyone would be getting "rich."

With the proper desire, strategy, and funding - anything is possible.

Like most things, community revitalization has to start somewhere but that origin point need not be the entire solution.

I understand that my off-the-cuff business proposal has issues. If you're so inclined, please feel free to offer solutions!

 

[J.Mattson]

Pretty good discussion. I have a few thoughts after reading the thread and thinking about my own GEC knives.

1. Are gec knives easy to buy from a dealer? No, I can't just shop around and buy after I've decided I really want one.
2. Are they impossible without having connections, being on lists, or knowing a secret handshake? No, timing and a little luck helps but buying a GEC is not more burdensome then buying anything with demand that out stripes supply.
3. Are they the "best" production traditional knife? Probably. In my experience the odds of me getting a GEC knife with issues is much lower than any other production traditional knife brand.
4. Are other brands bad? Heck no. Of you just want a good user knife you are spoiled for choice, in addition (from what I've seen) the quality of case knives seem to be trending up in the last year or two.
5. Can GEC do what case does, or can case do what GEC what case does? No, Case makes orders of magnitude more knives then GEC and at a generally lower price point.
6. Do people who buy knives (or anything else for that matter) take the fun out of it. Sure, but if people would stop buying at inflated prices the market would correct. We should make a distinction between a flipper and someone who is just selling a knife they bought because they didn't like it or they want to raise money to buy something else and just wants fair market value for what they are selling.

Knifes are a hobby, we're here because we enjoy them. Buy if you want to and enjoy them. If you don't, don't.

 

[CVamberbonehead]

Im not that I understand the "GEC makes historic patterns" thing here. Plenty of companies do.

Ah yes, the classic Beer and Sausage knife pattern of 1863, a classic! 4 score and 70 years ago, good old honest Abe Lincoln used to comb his beard after meals with a Beer and Sausage pattern. Lol

 

[mnblade]

The only thing I don't always get is the decision on patterns being produced. ... Honestly, how many people really need a cotton sampler??

I've actually done extensive research into this very topic. The precise answer is zero.

-- Mark