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Getting impatient...
- Thread starter Grapevine
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Hi Jeremy, you have valid points here.Jeremy Reynolds said:
I realize that one can adopt the "if you can't beat 'em, then join 'em" appraoch to things.
However, I think this complaint is more profound than just the selfish desire of a collector wanting to acquire a particular knife. This is not a good knife show practice, IMO.
Due to the extremely high demand for certain makers knives, it's not right to have a promoter proudly use those makers' names to draw collectors to the show while these superstar makers are discounting their knives to dealers the night before the show opens.
I'm referring to the stars of a particular show, only.
Secondly, some dealers, IMO, have gotten pretty creative with pricing these knives way too high from these makers I'm referring to. So, I would rather not buy from a lot of them.
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Architect,
I do recall one prominent custom knife dealer boasting on these very forums that the vast majority of the knives he sells never even make it on his site, because he has established such a great network of collectors/customers.
I'm not a part of that exclusive club. Probably never will be.
I do recall one prominent custom knife dealer boasting on these very forums that the vast majority of the knives he sells never even make it on his site, because he has established such a great network of collectors/customers.
I'm not a part of that exclusive club. Probably never will be.
Les Robertson
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Hi Wulf,
If there is a maker who is not interested in talking to you about his/her knives why would you want one?
If this is how they treat you before the sale, imagine what they would be like to work with once they have your money.
If there is a maker who is not interested in talking to you about his/her knives why would you want one?
If this is how they treat you before the sale, imagine what they would be like to work with once they have your money.
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Hey, even a total prick can make a cool knife from time to time 
Nah, I wasn't trying to suggest that a lot of makers were rude or dismissive - most are among the nicest folks you could hope to meet and are a real pleasure to talk to - but let's be honest, some folks' priorities change a bit once they've sold everything they brought to the show. Once that income is secured they might focus their attention on buying new materials, nurturing existing relationships with their better customers (and dealers), or maybe taking a much needed rest. And no matter how friendly and accomodating they might want to be, they also recognize that they're running a business, and need to treat it as such. It's hard to get everything done in three days, and sometimes it's the last guy in line that misses out because of it. What's frustrating is being there when the doors first open and still finding yourself the last guy in line...
Nah, I wasn't trying to suggest that a lot of makers were rude or dismissive - most are among the nicest folks you could hope to meet and are a real pleasure to talk to - but let's be honest, some folks' priorities change a bit once they've sold everything they brought to the show. Once that income is secured they might focus their attention on buying new materials, nurturing existing relationships with their better customers (and dealers), or maybe taking a much needed rest. And no matter how friendly and accomodating they might want to be, they also recognize that they're running a business, and need to treat it as such. It's hard to get everything done in three days, and sometimes it's the last guy in line that misses out because of it. What's frustrating is being there when the doors first open and still finding yourself the last guy in line...
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Wulf,
Thanks for trying to make me out to be a shallow dirtbag only after knives.
The reason I love custom knives IS the friendships of the makers. The knives are just bonus. Make friends with the makers. If you are going to own multiple knives from a maker, would you want him to be just another unknown face? I'm sorrty, but I like to befriend the men behind the knives I collect. If I wasn't friends with Kit, I wouldn't own 9 of his knives. You know what's funny? Most of those were gotten from other people. I don't and never will use my friendship to take advantage of collecting knives.
However, friendships do open other doors. Becuase of my friendship with Kit, he referred another friend of his to me when the friend wanted to sell knives. I was able to get rare knives I could not find anywhere else. Kit made no money off that. All he did was help out a friend.
Go to shows and make friends with makers. I hung out with several makers throughout the show, and don't own knives from the majority of them. We had dinner, talked about knives, and just BSed about life in general.
I never meant to make it sound like you should use the makers. Never would do anything like that. I like the people in the knife world. That is why i love the community.
jr
Thanks for trying to make me out to be a shallow dirtbag only after knives.
The reason I love custom knives IS the friendships of the makers. The knives are just bonus. Make friends with the makers. If you are going to own multiple knives from a maker, would you want him to be just another unknown face? I'm sorrty, but I like to befriend the men behind the knives I collect. If I wasn't friends with Kit, I wouldn't own 9 of his knives. You know what's funny? Most of those were gotten from other people. I don't and never will use my friendship to take advantage of collecting knives.
However, friendships do open other doors. Becuase of my friendship with Kit, he referred another friend of his to me when the friend wanted to sell knives. I was able to get rare knives I could not find anywhere else. Kit made no money off that. All he did was help out a friend.
Go to shows and make friends with makers. I hung out with several makers throughout the show, and don't own knives from the majority of them. We had dinner, talked about knives, and just BSed about life in general.
I never meant to make it sound like you should use the makers. Never would do anything like that. I like the people in the knife world. That is why i love the community.
jr
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Wulf,
Did you get in at Noon with a VIP pass or 2 pm with the regular crowd?
Did you get in at Noon with a VIP pass or 2 pm with the regular crowd?
Les Robertson
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Hi Wulf,
As JR points out this is a very personal hobby. Lets face it if a knife maker or a dealer has the choice to sell someone a knife who is a friend and/or a good customer they are going to do that.
Dealers generally get first pick because of the amount of money they spend with makers. Not just at the show but during the entire year.
I think even you would admit that if you were buying 3-5 knives from a maker a year for a few years that you would expect some kind of special treatment. Perhaps being put on some kind of VIP list.
As for shows, JR has nailed it. Pick up the phone and call the makers, find out what they are bringing.
With the cost of doing a show, you can't honestly expect a maker to hold knives back, especially if they don't know you are coming to see their knives.
The makers have to pay their expenses. What most people don't realize is that after doing shows for years, most of the "be backs" don't come back. When the person is standing there willing to pay for the knife...you sell it.
Since all money spends the same, Im sure if the maker(s) knew you were coming to the show. Knew what you wanted and you were going to be there when the doors opened. They would be happy to give you "right to first refusal". However, you can't expect them to hold the knife until sometime on Saturday.
Sometimes being a collector takes work.
As JR points out this is a very personal hobby. Lets face it if a knife maker or a dealer has the choice to sell someone a knife who is a friend and/or a good customer they are going to do that.
Dealers generally get first pick because of the amount of money they spend with makers. Not just at the show but during the entire year.
I think even you would admit that if you were buying 3-5 knives from a maker a year for a few years that you would expect some kind of special treatment. Perhaps being put on some kind of VIP list.
As for shows, JR has nailed it. Pick up the phone and call the makers, find out what they are bringing.
With the cost of doing a show, you can't honestly expect a maker to hold knives back, especially if they don't know you are coming to see their knives.
The makers have to pay their expenses. What most people don't realize is that after doing shows for years, most of the "be backs" don't come back. When the person is standing there willing to pay for the knife...you sell it.
Since all money spends the same, Im sure if the maker(s) knew you were coming to the show. Knew what you wanted and you were going to be there when the doors opened. They would be happy to give you "right to first refusal". However, you can't expect them to hold the knife until sometime on Saturday.
Sometimes being a collector takes work.
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Jeremy,
Come on. You know I wasn't trying to cast you in that light. All I'm saying is that those who we befriend and those who we buy knives from aren't always the same people. Now I've built some great and lasting relationships with some makers whose knives I also collect but this isn't always the case. There are some foreign makers, for example, whose work I really like, but cultural and language barriers prevent me from getting too chummy with them. There are also some makers whose knives I like but whose personalities I don't much care for (sorry - I can't like everyone) and there are guys I've befriended who simply make a certain type of knife I just don't get excited about at all. No big deal. We can't like eveything our friends make, and we can't like everyone who makes knives we want. That's life. And I should also point out that I can guarantee you there are plenty of makers that probably wouldn't like me very much either. No matter how much I like them or their knives, I'm never going to be their friend if they don't like me. Again - that's life. But if the only way a collector can have a reasonable degree of confidence that he'll be able to acquire a knife from a certain maker is by becoming that maker's buddy, then all of a sudden attendance at shows is going to drop big time. On a related note, if lots of those makers who draw in the biggest crowds sell out to dealers before the doors open, then again, attendance at knife shows is going to plummet.
That would be VERY bad for knife shows. That would be VERY bad for knifemakers.
Now think of the collector that has never gone to a show before and stumbles into here and reads your post. He may well decide that there's no point in even going because he's not friends with any of these guys. So a potential friendship or relationship never even has a chance to be formed.
Once again, this isn't good for knife shows, and it isn't good for knifemakers. And I think most of them know that too.
Kit, I got in with a VIP pass on Friday. I wasn't the first guy in line, but I got in pretty early. Many of my first stops were in the ABS section, where many mastersmiths had already sold out completely, or had sold all but maybe one really high dollar piece.
WoodWorkGhost,
I don't want special treatment from anyone. I don't deserve special treatment from anyone. I'm just a regular guy. I never ask a maker to hold a knife for me, I never ask for right of first refusal, and I never ask for any special rights or priviledges.
Come on. You know I wasn't trying to cast you in that light. All I'm saying is that those who we befriend and those who we buy knives from aren't always the same people. Now I've built some great and lasting relationships with some makers whose knives I also collect but this isn't always the case. There are some foreign makers, for example, whose work I really like, but cultural and language barriers prevent me from getting too chummy with them. There are also some makers whose knives I like but whose personalities I don't much care for (sorry - I can't like everyone) and there are guys I've befriended who simply make a certain type of knife I just don't get excited about at all. No big deal. We can't like eveything our friends make, and we can't like everyone who makes knives we want. That's life. And I should also point out that I can guarantee you there are plenty of makers that probably wouldn't like me very much either. No matter how much I like them or their knives, I'm never going to be their friend if they don't like me. Again - that's life. But if the only way a collector can have a reasonable degree of confidence that he'll be able to acquire a knife from a certain maker is by becoming that maker's buddy, then all of a sudden attendance at shows is going to drop big time. On a related note, if lots of those makers who draw in the biggest crowds sell out to dealers before the doors open, then again, attendance at knife shows is going to plummet.
That would be VERY bad for knife shows. That would be VERY bad for knifemakers.
Now think of the collector that has never gone to a show before and stumbles into here and reads your post. He may well decide that there's no point in even going because he's not friends with any of these guys. So a potential friendship or relationship never even has a chance to be formed.
Once again, this isn't good for knife shows, and it isn't good for knifemakers. And I think most of them know that too.
Kit, I got in with a VIP pass on Friday. I wasn't the first guy in line, but I got in pretty early. Many of my first stops were in the ABS section, where many mastersmiths had already sold out completely, or had sold all but maybe one really high dollar piece.
WoodWorkGhost,
I don't want special treatment from anyone. I don't deserve special treatment from anyone. I'm just a regular guy. I never ask a maker to hold a knife for me, I never ask for right of first refusal, and I never ask for any special rights or priviledges.
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Wulf said:
If they're gone for a while to stock up on supplies and then return to the table - great. If they sell out and then are never seen again - that bothers me more than anything else mentioned here.
And unfortunately there are a few who do exactly that. I won't mention anyone specifically.
Then there are those "names" who sell out 30 seconds after the doors open and still stand by their tables for the rest of the show, greeting old friends and new customers, graciously answering the same questions over and over again with a smile.
I don't really want to centre anyone out, but his initials are "Brian Tighe".
I actually like that there are dealers in the mix. I can't make it to many of the other shows in the country, but at least I can get a sampling from what was there from the dealers' sites, and maybe even buy one that appeals to me. Sure I'd pay a slightly higher price, but it gets more than offset by the fact that I didn't have to spend travel time or money.
And I can totally understand makers preselling to dealers or long standing customers.
I guess I don't really have a problem with how things are going at the shows. I do wish that I could attend more shows. Les is right in that you do learn alot from being able to see and handle so many knives.
And I can totally understand makers preselling to dealers or long standing customers.
I guess I don't really have a problem with how things are going at the shows. I do wish that I could attend more shows. Les is right in that you do learn alot from being able to see and handle so many knives.
Les Robertson
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Hi Wulf and RWS,
Custom knives is a business in which these makers are selling a product that no one needs....except we custom knife junkies.
The service aspect of any business goes along way to acquiring and retaining customers.
I have been attending shows since the early 80's and makers selling to good customers and dealers before the show opens existed then. Ive talked to makers and dealers who did shows in the 70's and even then "special" customers got first pick.
So this is nothing new, it will not hurt the business and you can expect it to continue.
The interpersonal dynamics that exist in custom knives are amazing. Friendships, business alliances, factory partnerships and collectors, just to name a few. All have influence on where the knife goes.
Speaking of business alliances. RWS and Wulf, what about all the prototype knives that go to the factories at shows? I have talked with several makers who bring, sometimes several prototypes, to a show and give them to the factories before the show opens. This creates yet another avenue that denies the collector knives from the makers.
What about show promoters who accept custom knives in lieu of payment from the maker for their table?
What about knives given to magazine writers and editors at shows for evaluation. Many of these knives will never find their way back into circulation.
How about the knives given as door prizes or offered for raffle or auction purposes?
This is like an onion, the more you open it up, the more layers there are.
There are numerous avenues in which a knife can be taken out of the hands of a collector attending a show. I guess we focus on the "smart" collectors like JR and the dealers. As they are the easiest targets to identify.
Custom knives is a business in which these makers are selling a product that no one needs....except we custom knife junkies.
The service aspect of any business goes along way to acquiring and retaining customers.
I have been attending shows since the early 80's and makers selling to good customers and dealers before the show opens existed then. Ive talked to makers and dealers who did shows in the 70's and even then "special" customers got first pick.
So this is nothing new, it will not hurt the business and you can expect it to continue.
The interpersonal dynamics that exist in custom knives are amazing. Friendships, business alliances, factory partnerships and collectors, just to name a few. All have influence on where the knife goes.
Speaking of business alliances. RWS and Wulf, what about all the prototype knives that go to the factories at shows? I have talked with several makers who bring, sometimes several prototypes, to a show and give them to the factories before the show opens. This creates yet another avenue that denies the collector knives from the makers.
What about show promoters who accept custom knives in lieu of payment from the maker for their table?
What about knives given to magazine writers and editors at shows for evaluation. Many of these knives will never find their way back into circulation.
How about the knives given as door prizes or offered for raffle or auction purposes?
This is like an onion, the more you open it up, the more layers there are.
There are numerous avenues in which a knife can be taken out of the hands of a collector attending a show. I guess we focus on the "smart" collectors like JR and the dealers. As they are the easiest targets to identify.
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lots of good points made here
Gene Shadley is a good friend of mine.
He usually delivers a piece each ECCKS for me.He will not put his knives out untill the general public are admitted..if you dont make it to his table with in 2 mintes his knives are gone.I usually dont have time to even see what he brings before they are pocketed.That Fast!
Chances are if you like a few makers and they are top makers by the time you make the rounds..you'll have missed out.Now what I do is place an order for the following year...most makers I collect and am friendly with will make an effort to deliver a piece for me knowing i'll be there ready to purchase.The Maker can bank on a sale and I can spend more time enjoying the show rather than stressing
Gene Shadley is a good friend of mine.
He usually delivers a piece each ECCKS for me.He will not put his knives out untill the general public are admitted..if you dont make it to his table with in 2 mintes his knives are gone.I usually dont have time to even see what he brings before they are pocketed.That Fast!
Chances are if you like a few makers and they are top makers by the time you make the rounds..you'll have missed out.Now what I do is place an order for the following year...most makers I collect and am friendly with will make an effort to deliver a piece for me knowing i'll be there ready to purchase.The Maker can bank on a sale and I can spend more time enjoying the show rather than stressing
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Hi WWG,WoodWorkGhost said:
I'm not sure how much this topic was discussed and brought up in years past.
As custom knife collecting grows and as certain knifemakers' knives become tuffer to get and as this practice continues and as it's brought out more into the open and as more and more people/showgoers start talking about it, the effects of this practice will have an impact on knife show attendance.
It has to have an impact. I'm a showgoer and I know I won't travel very far to go to a show because of it. Am I an aberration in this regard? Maybe for now I am.
A knife show is usually the only market place a collector can go to to see and experience these knives of these special knifemakers. Whatever a knifemakers obligations are at a knifeshow to whomever, I think the patrons of the shows deserve a chance at the maker's inventory at the show.
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I'll toss in my two cents here with some examples from Blade from different makers who, knives aside, are friends and have been for years. I consider myself lucky to be friends with these two since I am a better person for knowing them and their families. Both of these folks sell out at shows within minutes. (less than 6 or 7 after the doors open.)
I was able to spend some time with one of these folks about 7 or 8 months ago. I have never picked up or ordered a knife directly from him, but have a couple of his knives from second hand purchases (one of which he had a big part in with no financial gain.). At that time, I mentioned (in a no big deal way) that if he had anything fancy that he was planning for Blade that was not spoken for to please keep me in mind. Before he left for Blade he dropped me a line saying to see him before the show started. He did not have to do that at all, even if he had not it would not have affected our friendship at all.
Another circumstance. Years ago someone made me a knife from a factory pattern (just as a guide for the type of knife) that was in my collection. I took delivery of it a Blade. His table was right across from a well known dealer.
The dealer offered me a 33% profit on the knife and I turned it down. I had become loose friends with this guy for a while over the internet in another venue (email list), but word got back to him on the offer and my turning it down. I think the fact that I wanted the knife for my collection really made him feel good and maybe the friendship strengthened.
That was the first knife of his that I purchased and now there are 6 in my collection. (One a year at Blade). I do not feel that I have a complete show unless I come home with one of his knives. I make a bee-line to his table each year. He does not sell a knife until the doors open, but if the last 6 years are an example you can bet that I will be standing by the table of this friend when he uncovers his knives. If I do not get there in time some year, our friendship will not suffer at all.
My experience, for what it is worth, is that the most important thing in this little world of ours (custom knives) are the people (makers, dealers, writers and collectors). It took a little while to actually learn and realize that. Leaving the knives behind I have come to realize that they are as a whole the finest folks I have ever associated with and I am by far a better person for knowing as many (or as few) of them as I do. Knives may have brought the friendships together, but the friendships do not exist because of knives.
There were a couple of knives I wanted that I was not able to get. No one is able to get all they can afford from popular makers at one show, but if they focus and make the effort they might be able to get one or two. The chase is part of the fun of collecting.
Over the years friends (makers, dealers and collectors) have had hands with no financial gain in many of the knives in my collection. Those knives have become a representation of those friendships. They have become more than knives and I hope that I will never be in a position of having to sell any of them. I would rather pass that task on to someone else.
I was able to spend some time with one of these folks about 7 or 8 months ago. I have never picked up or ordered a knife directly from him, but have a couple of his knives from second hand purchases (one of which he had a big part in with no financial gain.
). At that time, I mentioned (in a no big deal way) that if he had anything fancy that he was planning for Blade that was not spoken for to please keep me in mind. Before he left for Blade he dropped me a line saying to see him before the show started. He did not have to do that at all, even if he had not it would not have affected our friendship at all.Another circumstance. Years ago someone made me a knife from a factory pattern (just as a guide for the type of knife) that was in my collection. I took delivery of it a Blade. His table was right across from a well known dealer.
The dealer offered me a 33% profit on the knife and I turned it down. I had become loose friends with this guy for a while over the internet in another venue (email list), but word got back to him on the offer and my turning it down. I think the fact that I wanted the knife for my collection really made him feel good and maybe the friendship strengthened.
That was the first knife of his that I purchased and now there are 6 in my collection. (One a year at Blade). I do not feel that I have a complete show unless I come home with one of his knives. I make a bee-line to his table each year. He does not sell a knife until the doors open, but if the last 6 years are an example you can bet that I will be standing by the table of this friend when he uncovers his knives. If I do not get there in time some year, our friendship will not suffer at all.
My experience, for what it is worth, is that the most important thing in this little world of ours (custom knives) are the people (makers, dealers, writers and collectors). It took a little while to actually learn and realize that. Leaving the knives behind I have come to realize that they are as a whole the finest folks I have ever associated with and I am by far a better person for knowing as many (or as few) of them as I do. Knives may have brought the friendships together, but the friendships do not exist because of knives.
There were a couple of knives I wanted that I was not able to get. No one is able to get all they can afford from popular makers at one show, but if they focus and make the effort they might be able to get one or two. The chase is part of the fun of collecting.
Over the years friends (makers, dealers and collectors) have had hands with no financial gain in many of the knives in my collection. Those knives have become a representation of those friendships. They have become more than knives and I hope that I will never be in a position of having to sell any of them. I would rather pass that task on to someone else.
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I honestly don't see pre-selling negatively affecting the attendance of shows. As pointed out earlier, this practice has been in existance as long as shows have been around.
At Blade, I know of several people I talked to that didn't buy any knives. They may have bough a couple of accessories (sharpening stones, tuff clotch, etc...) but didn't buy any blade ware. They were there for the people. They were there to talk with people they met over the internet, as well as meet makers and hang out with old friends.
I only go to one all knife show a year (which will change now that moved to the Orlando area and can drive to Guild in 45 minutes.) I choose Blade because it is the biggest and best show around. I get to see old friends, meet new friends, and view thousands of knives. One of the reasons I like Blade, is the number of makers there. Chances are, the knives I am looking for can be found due to the number of knives, makers, dealers, and collectors attending.
I see two schools of thought emerging in this thread. One is that we need to change the process and the way knives are being sold at shows. I don't think it's a realistic approach, but it does have some upside.
The second school of thought is educating people on the way things are handled, and show them how to get the knives they want.
When people are "sold out" at Blade, many times those knives were never for sale to begin with. They are orders being delivered, sometimes kept on the table so customers/collectors can see and handle the pieces. I know I had a knife delivered I order for delivery last Blade, things happened and the maker couldn't complete it (I told him not to, he could have if he pushed it.) We changed the materials and design some last year, and he delivered it this year. It was the first time for this maker working with some of the materials, as well as the first engraved model (engraved by Kristi Obenauf) he had done. He wanted to show that he could work the material and show off Kristi's engraving, so he kept my knife on his table for the first 2 days. He had many people looking at it and handling it. Hopefully, it helped seal a couple of orders for him. Bottom line, having sold knives on the table let others at least handle the wares.
Makers also like some of the shows. It's a break out of the shop. I atteneded Les R's semminar at Blade, and he put it pretty well: Blade is one of the few places on earth where everyone understands you as a knife knut. No one thinks your crazy for spending hard earned cash on blades. Makers get to talk with each other, talk with old friends, buy materials, work collaboration deals, etc...
Also, the cost of doing a show is pretty expensive. By the time you factor in travel, hotel, food, table prices, and time away from customer orders, I would be willing to bet the minimum for most makers to attend a show like Blade is $2,000. If I had to front that much money, I would damn sure want to make sure I sold every knife I brought. Pre-selling and selling to dealers helps makers do just that. If makers can't cover the costs of shows, they won't continue going. So a maker is going to continue to sell knives anyway they see fit.
So, I see the only way to do things is to call these makers and make sure you get what you want. If you don't know what you want, then go to the show and take your chances something will jump out and grab you. Me, I prefer to do my homework and research and know exactly what I am looking for. So that is why I try and secure it pre-show. I don't see how this practice is unfair, when many times the maker has never even heard my name. Anyone can do it, so how is it an unfair practice?
JR
At Blade, I know of several people I talked to that didn't buy any knives. They may have bough a couple of accessories (sharpening stones, tuff clotch, etc...) but didn't buy any blade ware. They were there for the people. They were there to talk with people they met over the internet, as well as meet makers and hang out with old friends.
I only go to one all knife show a year (which will change now that moved to the Orlando area and can drive to Guild in 45 minutes.) I choose Blade because it is the biggest and best show around. I get to see old friends, meet new friends, and view thousands of knives. One of the reasons I like Blade, is the number of makers there. Chances are, the knives I am looking for can be found due to the number of knives, makers, dealers, and collectors attending.
I see two schools of thought emerging in this thread. One is that we need to change the process and the way knives are being sold at shows. I don't think it's a realistic approach, but it does have some upside.
The second school of thought is educating people on the way things are handled, and show them how to get the knives they want.
When people are "sold out" at Blade, many times those knives were never for sale to begin with. They are orders being delivered, sometimes kept on the table so customers/collectors can see and handle the pieces. I know I had a knife delivered I order for delivery last Blade, things happened and the maker couldn't complete it (I told him not to, he could have if he pushed it.) We changed the materials and design some last year, and he delivered it this year. It was the first time for this maker working with some of the materials, as well as the first engraved model (engraved by Kristi Obenauf) he had done. He wanted to show that he could work the material and show off Kristi's engraving, so he kept my knife on his table for the first 2 days. He had many people looking at it and handling it. Hopefully, it helped seal a couple of orders for him. Bottom line, having sold knives on the table let others at least handle the wares.
Makers also like some of the shows. It's a break out of the shop. I atteneded Les R's semminar at Blade, and he put it pretty well: Blade is one of the few places on earth where everyone understands you as a knife knut. No one thinks your crazy for spending hard earned cash on blades. Makers get to talk with each other, talk with old friends, buy materials, work collaboration deals, etc...
Also, the cost of doing a show is pretty expensive. By the time you factor in travel, hotel, food, table prices, and time away from customer orders, I would be willing to bet the minimum for most makers to attend a show like Blade is $2,000. If I had to front that much money, I would damn sure want to make sure I sold every knife I brought. Pre-selling and selling to dealers helps makers do just that. If makers can't cover the costs of shows, they won't continue going. So a maker is going to continue to sell knives anyway they see fit.
So, I see the only way to do things is to call these makers and make sure you get what you want. If you don't know what you want, then go to the show and take your chances something will jump out and grab you. Me, I prefer to do my homework and research and know exactly what I am looking for. So that is why I try and secure it pre-show. I don't see how this practice is unfair, when many times the maker has never even heard my name. Anyone can do it, so how is it an unfair practice?
JR
Les Robertson
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- Oct 10, 1998
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Hi RWS,
I don't know how much you spend on custom knives per year or who you buy from. The truth of the matter is the custom knife business is a multi, multi million dollar business.
Consequently, those of us (to include myself) who spend less than 3 or 4 thousand dollars a year on custom knives. Really don't make much of an impact on the overall market.
Yes, it would be great if show promoters could keep makers from selling any knives before the show. Just like it would be great if the could keep those "special customers" and dealers without tables out of the show before it opens.
The reality is that most shows are having fewer and fewer people attend each year. This is due in large part to the availablity of knives on the Internet. I know I travel to fewer shows and take the travel money and spend it on knives. For me this is a win win situation.
Perhaps you should take the opportunity at shows to look at new makers who do have knives on the table. Remember even Loveless and Moran were unknowns at one time.
I don't know how much you spend on custom knives per year or who you buy from. The truth of the matter is the custom knife business is a multi, multi million dollar business.
Consequently, those of us (to include myself) who spend less than 3 or 4 thousand dollars a year on custom knives. Really don't make much of an impact on the overall market.
Yes, it would be great if show promoters could keep makers from selling any knives before the show. Just like it would be great if the could keep those "special customers" and dealers without tables out of the show before it opens.
The reality is that most shows are having fewer and fewer people attend each year. This is due in large part to the availablity of knives on the Internet. I know I travel to fewer shows and take the travel money and spend it on knives. For me this is a win win situation.
Perhaps you should take the opportunity at shows to look at new makers who do have knives on the table. Remember even Loveless and Moran were unknowns at one time.