Getting impatient...

[RWS]

(and for what it's worth, I've yet to buy a knife from a maker at a lower price than what the dealer was charging)

That's wierd. I can order or buy available knives anytime from the top makers for less than the dealers charge.

 

[cockroachfarm]

That's wierd. I can order or buy available knives anytime from the top makers for less than the dealers charge.

I guess "available" is the operative word. Please get me a Mayo "M.O.A." for next weekend and I'll have a check in the mail to you on Monday morning.

 

[RWS]

I guess "available" is the operative word. Please get me a Mayo "M.O.A." for next weekend and I'll have a check in the mail to you on Monday morning.

I'm neither a dealer nor a maker of those beautiful Mayo knives.

Most of the knives I have gotten for my collection did not require an immediate delivery to me. However, most of the knives I have gotten from what I consider the best of the best makers were delivered within several months and I was quoted and/or paid a lot less than what dealers charge.

Edited to add: On a number of occasions I have gotten lucky while calling these same makers and have been offered a knife for immediate delivery that they happen to have just created . Yes, at a price much less than the dealer price.

 

[fasteddie]

And people say there's never anything interesting going on at BF.

Building the personal relationships, getting to know makers, dealers, and collectors who rotate their stuff occasionally, getting into the shows early... that's all part of what makes knife collecting interesting to me.

I just wonder if the people who pay admission on Saturday afternoon or Sunday feel cheated. So far, it doesn't sound like it based on this thread. And are those ticket sales important to the financial health of the show? What it comes down to in my mind is that the shows have to continue to be of value to attendees and financially viable so that we can continue to have great shows like Blade.

 

[pff]

What Gus said.

Shows are about people. We go to knife shows because thats where knife people gather. DUH!

Those who think shows are about shiny objects are like magpies, always looking for something shiny but not understanding what it really is.

 

[RWS]

What Gus said.

Shows are about people. We go to knife shows because thats where knife people gather. DUH!

Those who think shows are about shiny objects are like magpies, always looking for something shiny but not understanding what it really is.

I agree with most of your statement however for me you left out a couple key words.
Shows are about people. We go to knife shows because thats where knife people gather to see, shop for and buy knives for their collection.

 

[cockroachfarm]

....what I consider the best of the best makers were delivered within several months.....

That's excellent! Wish I was that fortunate.

And that's what makes our hobby so fulfilling - we all have different tastes and needs. The makers whom _I_ consider to be "the best of the best" all have waiting times measured in YEARS. When I've then been able to *immediately* purchase one of their knives from a dealer who has EARNED my trust - the price has always been the same as that quoted by the maker. (because the "wholesale" pricing the maker and the dealer arrive at is something they negotiate in private.)

And before I go out for coffee: what about the remaining 99% of our fellow collectors who don't have the funds or the opportunity to attend a knife show? They might appreciate the fact that they can still buy the knife of THEIR dreams - from a dealer.

(Disclaimer: I AM NOT A KNIFE DEALER NOR DO I PLAY ONE ON TELEVISION )

 

[pff]

I agree with most of your statement however for me you left out a couple key words.
Shows are about people. We go to knife shows because thats where knife people gather to see, shop for and buy knives for their collection

You go for shiny objects. I go for the people. My way is better. I'll still have the friends long after the shiny objects are balls of oxide.

FWIW, I have NO trouble spending money even on Sunday afternoon.

 

[RWS]

Hi CRF,
Dealers are very, very important to this industry.
I know that and most of us would be bummed out if we couldn't look at and shop their great inventory on line.

However, that said, I think a knife show should be for non-dealer buyers or at least dealers should have to pay retail like any other showgoer at the show after the doors open.

 

[RWS]

Hi pff,
Going for the people is probably more important in the long run than the shiny object. Your right about that.
As I grow older I hope these material things I desire have less of an influence on my choices, no doubt.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi RWS,

Im curious, what "in demand" makers are you buying from that can get you a knife in a couple of months. Also, specifically what dealers are you referring to and which knives are they selling that have a premium.

Your statements at time are a little vague and without specifics.

 

[RogerP]

Shows are about people. We go to knife shows because thats where knife people gather. DUH!

Those who think shows are about shiny objects are like magpies, always looking for something shiny but not understanding what it really is.

Try hosting a knife show where makers show up with no knives. See how many people you get to attend. Heck - see how many makers you get to attend. Surely you'll agree it's "about" both - the people - makers, collectors. dealers - who share a common interest in and enthusiasm for those "shiny objects".

Roger

 

[RWS]

Hi RWS,

Im curious, what "in demand" makers are you buying from that can get you a knife in a couple of months. Also, specifically what dealers are you referring to and which knives are they selling that have a premium.

Your statements at time are a little vague and without specifics.

Hello WWG,
My statements are purposely vague as they should be in a discussion like this, IMO.

I'm not going to name dealers specifically and then see this thread turn into a detailed worshiping, or even worse, a major bashing of that particular dealer's practices and reputation.

My statements are not intended to tarnish the reputation of any dealer. To pull the exact names of any dealers into this dicussion isn't necessary, especially in light of the fact that the tone of this debate does accidentally appear negative toward dealers at times and could lead someone to believe that what dealers are doing is evil while what the dealers and makers are doing at shows has been an exceptable practice for decades, eventhough some of us collectors disapprove.

If you believe that for the most part what dealers charge for a knife is what you would pay to a maker at a show or on order, then I can only disagree using my own buying experience as a basis for making my assertion. And I do disagree. Does this make the dealer the bad guy? NO!

However, taken out of context, my assertions could very easily be made to look like I'm trying to make them out as the bad guy which is not the intention of this argument and using specific dealers' names would only make matters worse and is unnecessary.
I just think that makers should not pre-sell to dealers at a knife show.

The content of this thread by those of us defending a notion of fair play at a knife show has brought dealers into this discussion and identified them as part of the blame for a problem that we percieve exists at knife shows with respect to pre-sells and nothing more.

With respect to getting knives within a "couple months", my statement specifically said "several months" which on average is more like 6-9 months probably, but usually never over 12.

I have yet to be put in a position by any top maker where I couldn't get a knife within that time frame on average, except by 3 or 4 makers and I hate their guts!
JUST KIDDING!!!

I collect Bowies. As for the names of those makers I've dealt with with respect to the quotes they have given me over price and time of delivery this is mine and the maker's business. Again names are not important in this discussion.

Who are the top makers for me? Just pull out the Mastersmith list. Also a couple stock removal makers are in the mix.

If your reason for asking me to name names of dealers and makers is to put my assertions to test and put me on the spot like in some court of law, then your actually questioning the honesty of my statements which isn't real cool , but OK . If my statements were far fetched and inconsistent I could understand you calling me on them.

In any event, we know there are those people who believe that this knife show practice is harmless and others who think it isn't.

The debate continues.....

Edited grammar, spelling, etc.

 

[RogerP]

If you believe that for the most part what dealers charge for a knife is what you would pay to a maker at a show or on order, then I can only disagree using my own buying experience as a basis for making my assertion.

For what it's worth, this pretty much accords with my buying experience as well. I now get pretty much get the majority of my knives directly from makers. I have, however, bought SEVERAL knives from a number of different dealers. While it is possible to get a knife at the maker's price from a dealer, in my experience, this is very much the exception to the rule.

That is no criticism of dealers. I have often gladly paid a premium for a "must have" knife. Bearing in mind that the only person that decided it was "must have" was me. To my knowledge, no dealer has ever forced anybody to buy a knife.

As for delivery times, they vary. There are quite a few first rate makers that can get you such a knife in under a year. A lot more can get you one in under two. I have learned patience, and it has paid off. I no longer consider a three year delivery time to be exceptionally long.

Another great source of knives is the group of fellow collectors. I have no small amount of "markers" out there - you know, the "if you ever decide to sell this knife, let me know" type. Nearly every knife I own has a similar "marker" placed against it by fellow collectors with similar tastes. I have purchased quite a few knives this way. It has also made it a lot easier to sell my knives should the desire / need arise.

Cheers,

Roger

 

[Jeremy Reynolds]

The price dealers charge is a good topic, but it has nothing to do with pre-selling.

For what it's worth, most reputable dealers will sell knives at, or as close to the makers price as possible. This helps the dealer and maker. There are exceptions for rare knives in super high demand where demand far far exceeds the supply. Two examples are Ken Onion and Ernest Emerson.

JR

 

[cockroachfarm]

....we know there are those people who believe that this knife show practice is harmless and others who think it isn't.....

Start a poll. Let's get some numbers and we could actually have some idea of whether *most* people here think it's "fair" or "unfair".

 

[RWS]

Start a poll. Let's get some numbers and we could actually have some idea of whether *most* people here think it's "fair" or "unfair".

Outstanding idea!
Now, how do you start a poll? Isn't their a polling mechanism in the system?
Let me research.

 

[RWS]

A Poll about pre-selling has begun here.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=303464

 

[RogerP]

The price dealers charge is a good topic, but it has nothing to do with pre-selling.

Pre-selling is a good topic, but it has nothing to do with our collective impatience to see the Blade knives posted . This thread has gone in many directions. Discussion is good.

Roger

 

[Keith Montgomery]

Since I don't go to Blade , I like to check out the dealer sites to see some of what I missed. It is not something that I get impatient about however. As long as they are posted in a reasonable time I am happy.

As far as knives being pre-sold is concerned, I am of a mixed mind. I go to shows to see knives, meet people and see friends. The last two of those reasons are very important, but without the knives it is not a knife show.

Makers have reasons for doing business the way they do. Many sell their knives early to dealers to make sure that they have a guarantied income from the show. It takes a lot of the presure off of the bill paying and removes a lot of stress. Others sell knives early because they fell that the ones that they are selling these knives to have earned this privilege with their previous support. Others do it as favour for friends. It is done as a way to shore up old relationships and make new ones. It is a way of doing business that is neither unethical nor wrong.

I understand completely the frustration that is felt by those that see empty table in front of the makers that they hoped to get a knife from; or even just wanted to get to check out these makers knives. That frustration is something that I would feel as well, but I would not hold it against anyone. Knifemaking is a business and knifemakers have to do business in the way that they feel will be successful for them.

So in a nutshell, here are my thoughts on the pre-selling thing: I believe that it is perfectly ok for makers to pre-sell their knives and for dealers and collectors to take advantage of this practice. I do however believe that makers should be required to have some knives on their tables at the beginning of a show. They should also be required to man their tables until they leave on Sunday (yes they should be allowed to visit and purchase materials, but someone should always be at their table to answer questions). A pet peeve of mine is makers that sell out and then disappear for the rest of the show. That is showing disrespect for the people that attend these shows and in my opinion is totally unacceptable.