Getting the most out of your Norton Crystolon fine stone

[Jason B.]

I like it! I'm going to order one when I get home.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I've had other companies claim the wrong abrasive before even when pressed for detail when I know for a fact they're wrong, so that doesn't necessarily clear it up, but good to know it's just a weird lighting/white balance issue with the photography.

 

[BluntCut MetalWorks]

Here is my dusty grits... Also this 1K SiC is much harder than my higher density 800 SiC.

I've had other companies claim the wrong abrasive before even when pressed for detail when I know for a fact they're wrong, so that doesn't necessarily clear it up, but good to know it's just a weird lighting/white balance issue with the photography.

 

[samuraistuart]

I wonder what the flattening stone that comes with the SiC stone is made from? I sent them a message as well, as there was more info I wanted to get from them.

 

[maximus83]

^Good question. I likely won't use that flattening stone that came with it as it's really small, I have an 8x3 cheapo diamond plate (150/600) that I've been using to flatten my SiC and AlOx stones.

Also: I will update the thread when I learn what grit rating system they used on these stones. Best guess: probably JIS. Why? Because the stone was designed in the US by a US company, made in China, but sold/distributed/imported from Japan.

 

[jc57]

You have piqued my interest in the Sharp Pebble stones. I don't really need any new stones at the moment, though that doesn't always stop me from buying them. I saw a comparison of that stone to a Shapton Glass 320 and 1000 done by Ryky Tran on one of his Youtube channels, and while he concluded that the results were better from the Shapton Glass stones, he thought it was a decent stone for the $20 price tag at the time.

Let us know how they work in real use. It may be cheap, but a $30 stone I don't use because I have better options is still $30 wasted. But if it's really a SiC stone that goes up to 1000 grit, I could use something like that for my D2 knives.

Also - I have had good results using an Ice Bear artifical nagura stone for dressing my higher grit Shapton Pro water stones. Interesting that they include such a large nagura with theirs. I too wonder what exactly that nagura is.

 

[microtech85]

I am able to get a very nice utility edge using the combination sic stone that will shave arm hair and cut paper towel and phone book. i think it is a nice agressive edge. However, it not a fine edge that can be acheived on finer stones. As someone who likes very keen edges, sic is just not for me. It is however a great economy stone that will put a very usable edge on a knife that will satisfy many users. I think it is a great edge for cutting cardboard.

 

[microtech85]

^Good question. I likely won't use that flattening stone that came with it as it's really small, I have an 8x3 cheapo diamond plate (150/600) that I've been using to flatten my SiC and AlOx stones.

Also: I will update the thread when I learn what grit rating system they used on these stones. Best guess: probably JIS. Why? Because the stone was designed in the US by a US company, made in China, but sold/distributed/imported from Japan.

I think its great that you are experimenting with different stones and techniques. I think you are brining very good and useful first hand observations to the forum. I think it is a good and worthwhile endeavor to find an economical sharpening solution to acheive fine edges on high alloy steels.

 

[maximus83]

I am able to get a very nice utility edge using the combination sic stone that will shave arm hair and cut paper towel and phone book. i think it is a nice agressive edge. However, it not a fine edge that can be acheived on finer stones. As someone who likes very keen edges, sic is just not for me. It is however a great economy stone that will put a very usable edge on a knife that will satisfy many users. I think it is a great edge for cutting cardboard.

I think there are 2 levels of "sharp" under consideration, both of which one could in theory use SiC stones as your coarse starting point:

1. Utility sharp. Good enough for EDU. I think this is the case for get it sharp off Crystolon or maybe Sharp pebble, strop, and done.
2. Refined sharp. Sharpen off SiC, then finish on something like diamonds, say EF, EEF, etc, and then strop. As in the other thread that's going right now.

It basically depends what you're looking for. Most of my EDU and utility knives around the house I aim for (1). Sometimes, with my nicer knives and just because I want to, I aim for (2). In the other thread, Bluntcut and, I think, HeavyHanded as well, are suggesting one could do your coarse work on SiC stones, then hop to say a something like DMT EF or some equivalent 2K to 3K diamond option, and that would give you that extra level of refinement.

 

[HeavyHanded]

On my wife's kitchen utility knife I most often use a Crystalon and then just 'steel' it on the glazed rim of a bowl or cup. When I can no longer get the edge back is time for the stone or (on that knife) unglazed bottom of a mixing bowl.

You could use the fine Crystalon and just a few passes on DMT EF or other finer stone. It will only require a few passes each touchup. Edge not as refined as some, but a solid maintenance strategy.

 

[maximus83]

OK, I got a response from SP support, sounds like they are using a JIS rating on all their stones including the 400/1000, except they qualify the 1000 grit as below.

ETA: Looking at latest version of our Unified Grit Chart, I assume this 14 micron grit rating puts the 1K side of the SP somewhere in the ballpark of JIS 600-800. So let's say as an estimate, the SP is really like a 400/800 JIS stone, which in ANSI terms, makes it about 320/500.

support@sharppebble.com
Sat 12/2/2017, 8:15 AM

Hi Tim,
We constantly strive to make our products better by researching & testing different combination of materials & various processes incorporated during manufacturing to get the best quality of products.
Based on these R&D process we have rated all of our sharpening stones as per JIS standard except grit 1000 which is 14±1 Micron.
Also kindly note, these grit rating system may change in future based on results from our Research & Development as we constantly thrive to improve our products.
Please let us know if you have any other questions.
Thanks,
Sharp Pebble Support

 

[maximus83]

Pondering on a possible role for the SharpPebble in my stone lineup. I should add (because a couple folks have pinged me in PM), I can't 'recommend' the SharpPebble yet, have only sharpened 2 knives. Don't know how it'll hold up over time, how it sharpens other knife steels, etc. But so far it did great on M390 and a 420HC blade. Looks promising.

Thoughts:

• The 2 grits--let's say in ANSI terms, 320/500--are convenient general purpose SiC grits in a single stone. The 320 is a BIT finer than the Crystolon fine, the 500 is a bit finer than the Norton India fine. Basically the Sharp Pebble could fill the role of these 2 Norton fine grits.
• It's a water stone. Like my 2 Crystolons especially the coarse one for profiling, but man I hate messing with oil stones. In fact when I use my coarse Norton for heavy grinding, I just soak it in water and use it wet, I don't even bother with oil. But the point is, I would like to get away from oil stones. If the Sharp pebble works and gives you grits roughly equivalent to Crystolon fine and India fine, it could be a good solution.
  
• Because it's SiC, it's a valid option for working with super steels in the coarse range. I could see potentially sharpening kitchen and utility edges on the '320' side, strop and done. And for refined edges like nicer folders, maybe a progression of the 320 side, the 500 side (which does add a more refined edge, it's quite a noticeable jump as bluntcut noted), and a high-grit diamond stone (DMT EF/EEF) to micro and finish.
• This stone just feels better than working with diamonds. The feel/feedback/control you get when using this stone, and the Baryonyx Arctic Fox, IMO are way nicer than I get with any coarse diamond plate. If it turns out after testing that I can use this stone for all super steels, and the AF for everything else (plus diamonds at the high grits to refine super steels, and Baryonyx Ptarmigan to refine others), that's a pretty cost-effective solution, gets me out of the oil stone business, and lets me use stones that I like at the start of every sharpening sequence.

 

[jc57]

Have you used the included nagura yet for anything? It is intended for flattening the stone?

 

[maximus83]

Haven't used it yet, but yes that's what it's for. I'll just use my diamond plate when I need to flatten it tho.

 

[maximus83]

After resetting bevels, then sharpening this soft stainless cheapo folder on the SP, and strop, it will: shave arm hair, and with receipt paper, slice cross-grain chunks, and push/pull cut with/cross grain.

One tip I had to use from BluntCut MetalWorks to get this thing really sharp off the 500 (ANSI) side: rinse the stone clean, finish with a few light edge trailing strokes.

Note too, this is just a utility edge, no refining such as Spydie UF or higher grit stones beyond the SP. So at this point, SP does great on M390, 420hc, and this 8crmM123xyz789whatever stainless that Schrade uses in their $6.99 folders.

 

[David Martin]

My Carborundum fine SiC stone I 'estimate' to be near 500 grit based on scratch pattern and feel. It's binders are good as the grit does not
easily release. Just a few passes on this stone steps the edge up to near the same level as a Norton fine India. And the material is capable
of cutting better steels. So, I'm glad I have it. DM

 

[maximus83]

^Good tip (the comparison of your 500 ANSI SiC stone with the India finish). Somebody pinged in PM about comparison of this stone with India finish, but I didn't have an India right now to compare it to. However I have the Arctic Fox, which is AlOx too and about 400 ANSI grit, so it's similar.

FortyTwoBlades posted related to this before in another thread, but obviously when comparing these stones it's the grit, and the materials, that impact edge finish. So for instance maybe 400 grit India or AF gives a "finer" finish than 500 grit something else, because the something else uses different materials. I'm guessing that could be in play here, would like to hear thoughts on that. Could a hard AlOx stone at a lower grit, like India or AF, in theory give a "finer" finish than say a 500 grit SiC stone, since the SiC stone here though pretty hard, is definitely more friable. Another item to add to my to-do list of stuff to check out. My hunch is that AF probably will give a finer finish, so it'll remain my primary stone for the over 90% of my knives that are not super steels.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

^Good tip (the comparison of your 500 ANSI SiC stone with the India finish). Somebody pinged in PM about comparison of this stone with India finish, but I didn't have an India right now to compare it to. However I have the Arctic Fox, which is AlOx too and about 400 ANSI grit, so it's similar.

FortyTwoBlades posted related to this before in another thread, but obviously when comparing these stones it's the grit, and the materials, that impact edge finish. So for instance maybe 400 grit India or AF gives a "finer" finish than 500 grit something else, because the something else uses different materials. I'm guessing that could be in play here, would like to hear thoughts on that. Could a hard AlOx stone at a lower grit, like India or AF, in theory give a "finer" finish than say a 500 grit SiC stone, since the SiC stone here though pretty hard, is definitely more friable. Another item to add to my to-do list of stuff to check out. My hunch is that AF probably will give a finer finish, so it'll remain my primary stone for the over 90% of my knives that are not super steels.

Abrasive grain size is only one of several factors that impact the finish produced. Grit protrusion (how high above the stone surface the particles stand), abrasive grain shape, friability of the grains, bond type, bond strength, and lubrication type all play a role, let alone factors like applied pressure and steel type/heat treatment.

 

[David Martin]

I think the India could give a finer finish. It's the way it breaks in. The SiC seems like it will always shed more grit as it sharpens and those particles will grind finer. But the SiC will cut tougher steels. DM

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

SiC abrasive grains are overall sharper in shape than AlOx, and so ceteris paribus it will result in a coarser finish than AlOx.