Getting Tired of This

[Nordic Viking]

I think we should change tactics and do unto Osama what he is trying to do to us. He wants to wreck the U.S. economy with another incident(s) and judging from what happened to the stock market after 9/11 this is not a fantasy goal.

So, how about if we put some John F. Kennedy "Man on the Moon" emphasis on making engines etc. that burn something other than gas and put "petroleum" into the same nostalgia category as black powder? All of Osama's money came from oil, and about 70% of Iran's GNP is from crude oil (they don't even refine gas there).

That would be honorably pulling out the financial rug from under those folks and it seems to me it is pretty hard to conduct international terrorism when you are broke.

It's not about the physical black stuff, it's more about how the black stuff is traded.

Here's a simplified example:

The USA pays Saudi Arabia $1 million for 700,000 barrels of oil.
Saudi Arabia buys weapons from the US for $500,000 (cost price $250,000)
Saudi Arabia buys commodities from the US for $500,000 (cost price $100,000)

Saudi Arabia now has weapons and commodities for $1 million
The USA has oil for $1 million and a $750,000 trade surplus from selling weapons and commodities.

The USA just has to print dollars when they need them. In recession years it prints more and lowers the prices - and in good times, it prints less and raises the prices. If Saudi Arabia decides to trade oil in Euros instead of dollars, then the USA has to trade dollars for Euros first. This would require more collateral.

Saddam had started to demand Euros for his oil (in 2000?) and then he became a "threat" and had to be removed.

 

[GUN SNOB]

I thought 'Heck' was were you could hear the ice cream truck, watch it come around the corner and then it didn't stop.

 

[cliff355]

It's not about the physical black stuff, it's more about how the black stuff is traded.

NV:

I think I'm following you, but how about this scenario:

Saudi Arabia has 700,000 barrels of oil, but nobody really wants to pay the shipping on it because oil is in very limited use for production of fertilizer and some manufacturing. Therefore, they do not have $500,000 for weapons or $500,000 for commodities.

The bad news is nobody makes a buck in trade surplus. The good news is Saudi Arabia and whoever else is hawking oil over there are basically out of ammo. Not only that, but the OPEC ministers are out of their Mercedes Benzs and saddling up their camels again.

It sounds from one angle like the U.S. would lose money on that deal, but what is all this constant military action costing?

By all means correct me if I'm wrong because my opinions are always subject to change.

 

[Nordic Viking]

A good plan, but unfortunately China and India need Saudi oil, even if America has an alterantive fuel source. If China and India move to Euros ...

 

[lizzardbone]

Hey Dano4017,
I for one, am very thankfull and happy that the world does NOT know of even a fraction of the successful missions the U.S. Spec Ops comunity have executed around the world. You think Americans are hated and despised now??????
.

 

[cliff355]

unfortunately China and India need Saudi oil, QUOTE]

That is true, but part of the plan is for this piece of mechanical ingenuity to minimize or eliminate anyone's pressing need for oil. Nobody wanted the stuff until our forebearers dumped the internal combustion engine on us. It is now time for a new motor.

 

[creightonfcb]

Hey Linton,

Nice sharp shooting, Tex!!

I kind of think you missed the redundancy of my "questions" though.

(Hint, I wasn't asking because I didn't know, but because I wanted people to think about the answers on their own...... Next time I will put a "Redundant Question Follows" so everyone know! )

Oh, and for the record, there was a period of history when what we now call Iraq was considered (and still is by some extreme groups) a "Holy Land" by the Muslims, and no non-muslim people were allowed into the area.....

Also, my reference to the Hashaheens and Old Man of the Mountain was meant to clarify the roots of what we now call suicide bombers, and where their training comes from. His (Old Man of the Mountain) training of what the world would come to know as "assassins" has been brought through to modern times and is now used to train the suicide bombers of today. This is one of the reasons why all of the service men wanna go back to the good 'ol 45 caliber pistol, because a 9 mm doesn’t put a drug induced martyr down on the first shot!

For more info, take a look at "Tactics of the Crescent Moon", by H. John Poole, a retired Marine Major and among other things, a Military Historian.

He does a great job of helping his readers understand the "Eastern" mind set, as well as the whole history of why they fight the way they do today.

Just thought I would clear that up!

Grimalkin
Camp Habbaniyah, Iraq

 

[Andrew Colglazier]

unfortunately China and India need Saudi oil, QUOTE]

That is true, but part of the plan is for this piece of mechanical ingenuity to minimize or eliminate anyone's pressing need for oil. Nobody wanted the stuff until our forebearers dumped the internal combustion engine on us. It is now time for a new motor.

Amen to that, brother.

:thumbup: :thumbup:

Andy

 

[Nordic Viking]

Free education to anybody who wants to study mechanical engineering

 

[sams]

Nordic Viking, you have close to 4,900 posts. You talk allot.

I enjoy it.

 

[Thomas Linton]

As for your examples, I guess I'll have to read into that. Although I dont get how one could really win such a 'war'.

Different approaches were used. The UK in southern Africa used overwelming force and concentration camps. The resistance fighters decided the game wasn't worth the cost, but they had "western" values.

In Malaya, the UK knew that the objective was security for the population, not body count. They won. (Abrams figured that out in Viet Nam, but it was too late. Public support was gone.)

As for the war on terror(ists), when pipe bombs are now labeled as WMD, one will have to arrest/kill many terrorists 'til that war is over. [/quoye]
Didn't know they were. See what you can learn here?

 

[Thomas Linton]

I think we should change tactics and do unto Osama what he is trying to do to us. He wants to wreck the U.S. economy with another incident(s) and judging from what happened to the stock market after 9/11 this is not a fantasy goal.

So, how about if we put some John F. Kennedy "Man on the Moon" emphasis on making engines etc. that burn something other than gas and put "petroleum" into the same nostalgia category as black powder? All of Osama's money came from oil, and about 70% of Iran's GNP is from crude oil (they don't even refine gas there).

That would be honorably pulling out the financial rug from under those folks and it seems to me it is pretty hard to conduct international terrorism when you are broke.

He also seems to make money on "conflict diamonds" and opium, or so it is claimed.

 

[Thomas Linton]

You give us far too much credit (although we are the Illuminati and rule the world.)

It's not about the physical black stuff, it's more about how the black stuff is traded.

Here's a simplified example:

The USA pays Saudi Arabia $1 million for 700,000 barrels of oil.

Actually, the USA pays Saudi Arabia more like $42 million for 700,000 barrels of oil, cost price ??? A lot less than $ 42 million. Big balance of trade win for Saudis.

Saudi Arabia buys weapons from the US for $500,000 (cost price $250,000)

That would be a few spare parts. We sell REALLY expensive weapons to the Saudis. $$ billions worth.

Saudi Arabia buys commodities from the US for $500,000 (cost price $100,000)

Saudi Arabia now has weapons and commodities for $1 million
The USA has oil for $1 million and a $750,000 trade surplus from selling weapons and commodities.

Really, Saudi Arabia has spare parts and some beef for $1 million and, conservatively, $$ 20 million in foreign exchange in a bank -- until they invest it in the U.S.

The USA just has to print dollars when they need them. In recession years it prints more and lowers the prices - and in good times, it prints less and raises the prices. If Saudi Arabia decides to trade oil in Euros instead of dollars, then the USA has to trade dollars for Euros first. This would require more collateral.

We trade Dollars for Euros all the time - $$ billions/day. Even more, we trade Dollars for Yen. (Do the Euro nations run "in the red" and print currency backed only by the full faith and credit of those governments? Sure they do. Just like the U.S. The "gold standard" went away decades ago. It's all just paper -- a confidence game.)

Saddam had started to demand Euros for his oil (in 2000?) and then he became a "threat" and had to be removed.

The official U.S. policy that Saddam had to be removed dates to 1997 when the government asked Congress to vote a resolution calling for "regime change." Nothing much was done to effectuate that policy until almost a year after 09/11/01 (11/09/01 in European terms). Timing is a bit off for conspiracy theory (but we are the Immuminati and rule the world).

 

[Nasty]

Thomas is the example of what I always *hope* to see in political discussions...

Thank you Sir.

 

[Thomas Linton]

Hey Linton,

Nice sharp shooting, Tex!!

Thank you. But you may offend the Texans who come here by using that honored term on a Californian living in Ohio.

I kind of think you missed the redundancy of my "questions" though.

(Hint, I wasn't asking because I didn't know, but because I wanted people to think about the answers on their own...... Next time I will put a "Redundant Question Follows" so everyone know! )

From the Department of Redundancy Dept.: Try "rhetorical" instead. We need all the help we can get. We need all the help we can get.

Oh, and for the record, there was a period of history when what we now call Iraq was considered (and still is by some extreme groups) a "Holy Land" by the Muslims, and no non-muslim people were allowed into the area.....

There have been ups and downs in how faiths treat other faiths -- everywhere in the world. If I said otherwise, I would be clearly wrong. Outbreaks of violence agains non-Muslims have been almost as frequent in primarily Muslim areas as outbreaks of violence against non-Christians in Christian countries.

Also, my reference to the Hashaheens and Old Man of the Mountain was meant to clarify the roots of what we now call suicide bombers, and where their training comes from. His (Old Man of the Mountain) training of what the world would come to know as "assassins" has been brought through to modern times and is now used to train the suicide bombers of today. This is one of the reasons why all of the service men wanna go back to the good 'ol 45 caliber pistol, because a 9 mm doesn’t put a drug induced martyr down on the first shot!

The "training" back then, as you doubtless know, was primarily centered on drugging the "candidate" assassin and, while he was in that drugged state, showing him the "paradise" that awaited, nubile "virgins" and all. (The original "Good Trip.") While "brain-washing" and, specifically, the promise of paradise, is a shared tactic, linking the Hashshashins to modern-day Muslim radicals is a reach. But to each his own opinion.

As you know, the .357 vs. .45 debate goes back generations before our present involvement with Muslim radicals. (And we put down that guerilla war. See "Civilize him with a Kraig and let's return to our beloved homes.")

 

[munk]

I'm an individual concerned with sixpence and mutt's head, choloroform and sheep's end. I don't give giddley squat for what most call laws.
It appears to my deranged eye, that Nasty is offering us a superb possibility: speak of concepts, speak of ideas, speak not of who swat Tom
When the Ghost Got Dawn.



Talk as if you really gave a golly gosh darn arnd wanted to be heard. Don't drag fags or drags into it.

Instead of a punitive 'master'; Nasty, that ridiculous poisen, offers light.

Gotta light?


The thread is going OK



munk

 

[GUN SNOB]

It seems strange that we are talking about cutting the flow of money to a region thats money (a lot of) came from us in the first place.

I don't know if this will work though. Seems that when Afghanistan had troubles with Russia the US suppled 'the enemy of our enemy', the Afghani's, and kept the fighting going.

I also remember the US supplying Iraq and Saddam during the Iran-Iraq war. But didn't we also supply Iran as a Negotiation for something at the same time? Seem to remember Ollie North getting sweated over all that mess. Some thing about Cocaine from S. America and arms to the middle east. (I must admit I was trying real hard not to pay attention at the time.)

We are worried about our Stinger missiles being used against our helicopters.(suppled to Iran by us and filtered to the terrs.)

So if we try and starve them out they will still have the deep pockets of several royal families to fall back on. If that source drys up there are several countries that may well back the movement. We will be come the enemy of the enemy. Just take Thomas' financial report and change the names. (Remember we fought the Chinese in Korea and Viet Nam.)

My other thought is what effect will it have on the rest of the population in the region. I can't think like a Afghani but it can't be good PR. On top of our past history in the region we bomb them, invade them, do a half way (caught my self there Nasty) job of fixing the place back up and then starve them out? Seems like a good way to make more people hate us to me.

It may not be our responsibility to fix the place but is it in our best interest? I know we wanted a pipe line threw Afghanistan before the invasion and building an economy that isn't based on opium would seem to be a worthy cause. It's not like we haven't created labor pools in other countries.

Just a thought.

 

[Nordic Viking]

You give us far too much credit (although we are the Illuminati and rule the world.)

The tinfoil makes my head itchy.

Actually, the USA pays Saudi Arabia more like $42 million for 700,000 barrels of oil, cost price ??? A lot less than $ 42 million. Big balance of trade win for Saudis.

Yes, and if the Russians start to sell 700,000 barrels for €35 million to China and the Saudi's figure out €35 million buys more than $42 million - what happens when everybody starts using Euros.

That would be a few spare parts. We sell REALLY expensive weapons to the Saudis. $$ billions worth.

Like I said, it was a simplified example.

Really, Saudi Arabia has spare parts and some beef for $1 million and, conservatively, $$ 20 million in foreign exchange in a bank -- until they invest it in the U.S.

Exactly, if they don't have dollars maybe they invest in Europe or Asia

We trade Dollars for Euros all the time - $$ billions/day. Even more, we trade Dollars for Yen. (Do the Euro nations run "in the red" and print currency backed only by the full faith and credit of those governments? Sure they do. Just like the U.S. The "gold standard" went away decades ago. It's all just paper -- a confidence game.)

That's what I was trying to say. When the money gets low you just print more (self-loan to bolster the economy). If the predominant currency was Euro, you would have to have more collateral than just a note to yourselves to print less when times get better.

The official U.S. policy that Saddam had to be removed dates to 1997 when the government asked Congress to vote a resolution calling for "regime change." Nothing much was done to effectuate that policy until almost a year after 09/11/01 (11/09/01 in European terms). Timing is a bit off for conspiracy theory (but we are the Immuminati and rule the world). [/

That's my thoery and I'm sticking to it.

 

[creightonfcb]

I am curious as to why you say linking the hashahseens with modern suicide bombers is a reach.

The ones that we have captured alive (due to bad wiring in their vests and such) have almost all reported the type of training used by the hashasheens, i.e. drugs and a promise of a one way ticket to heaven....

One stemed from the other. Looks pretty plain to me...

Oh, that reminds me of a joke.....

A suicide bomber completes his "mission" and finds himself standing before St. Peter and the Pearly Gates. Much to his surprise, there are no young virgins waiting for him, but what looks like a bunch of old with axe handles, clubs, and such. As the old start toward the bomber, he asks St. Peter where the 70 virgins that he was promised by Allah. St Peter responded "Sorry, there was a type-o in the Koran, it was supposed to say '70 Virginians' and if I were you son, I would start running!!


Grimalkin
Camp Habbaniyah, Iraq

 

[alittle_edgy]

Some of the mainstream media continue to compare the situation in Iraq to Vietnam. Shockingly in one way they may be right. We are tying our troops hands in this war as we did then. If we would let our troops do what they are capable of, we could have won this war 10 times over. The detractors and nay sayers have a right to be heard but do more harm to morale and give more aid & comfort to the enemy than anything else. If we lose, you have democrats & the media to thank.