You don't have to "raise your asking price" to offset PP fee's, 98% of the time I lose money on the deal and I accept that in the resell of my knife. Members are mostly going to buy only if it's a good deal for them (what the market will bear) if I can keep it to within about a $15.00-$20.00 loss window, that's fine for me.
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"Gift" option, etc. etc. sucks Vol. VII
- Thread starter akula83
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I even consider sellers passing on the fee to buyers as being dishonest - PayPal fees is seller's responsibility (just like insurance is), as he/she is contracting PayPal for receiving payment. Adding fees to the asking price is dishonest, if not violation of PayPal TOS.
In addition to following the rules, it's also being honest to oneself. IMHO.
In addition to following the rules, it's also being honest to oneself. IMHO.
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I think this thread has run it's course, I tried to make a point and it seems most agree with me. What ever the seller want's to ask for does not matter if they try to factor in a "cover" of the PP fee's or not, if the price isn't reasonable nobody's going to bite. I can only speak for myself as the seller, I cover the PP fee, shipping and insurance come off the top of "profit" and the buyer's money sits in the account until they tell me they are satisfied with the deal...and then I sleep good that night. Thanks for all the replies everyone
If a seller offers PayPal as a payment option, the seller cannot discount for cash without violating the PayPal TOS. So if someone offers to sell you something "to your door" and provides PayPal as a payment option, the logical assumption is that they've already raised their selling price to cover their fees regardless of whether or not you use PayPal to pay for the item. That doesn't mean that every seller who sells "to your door" raises their prices to cover their fees and shipping costs, but I suspect more do than don't. For most folks, the buying and selling of knives is a business transaction, not an exercise in altruism. And that, of course, brings me right back to "net to me" pricing. It's the ONLY way to price goods that lets prospective buyers know up front exactly how much the seller needs to put in their pocket to make the deal happen. The rest (payment options, shipping methods, fees, insurance, etc.) is negotiable between the buyer and the seller as it should be in my opinion. Again, I like to pay only for what I actually use. YMMV.
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That is true in some cases, but there are quite a few long term members here, with a lot of positive feedback, that still do it. I saw a couple yesterday, and was surprised. That is their choice I guess, because there are plenty of people who will still buy from them.
I do the same thing...
Lately I haven't even been putting anything in my listings about fees... I actually don't think about having to pay fees. Whenever I list a knife for sale, I do research and try to price it so it is fair for both parties..
I just list the price shipped. I also state in the listing, Please use Goods option only. I do not accept payments made using the Gift option
reapinItUP
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IMO 'net to me' does make sense when you as the seller offer to take paypal or money order as payment option. If someone wants to send a money order do they have to pay the same price as the person who is using paypal with the fees added to the price. "Net to me" lets the buyer choose what payment method and if they want an upgraded shipping method they can just factor in whatever cost on top of the price.
How much negotiation is there with "net to me", really? I've seen you make that statement before. Seems to me, "net to me" doesn't mean "negotiation". It means "you can pay anything you want, just as long as it's my price plus whatever Paypal will charge. So, in essence, $200 doesn't mean $200, it means "you'd better send me $206, or no deal." That's what "net to me" means. I mean, what's the negotiation "I'll buy your knife if YOU (rightfully) pay the fees." If you will accept that, then why bother with the "net to me" trickery?
So, I can't speak for others, but when I personally see "net to me", I think it's lazy and so I just don't do business with that person. Same for the "Use gift!" people (folks I don't know).
I have a very short list of folks here who I will accept gift payments from, and I do that because they know they can trust me to make good on any transaction we do. That list is VERY small (amusingly, two of 'em have posted in this thread.
)Net to me is a cowardly way of saying "You pay the Paypal fees, please." Why not just say that up front?
As an aside, I've shifted to covering Paypal fees, shipping, and full insurance on any knife I sell. So, I lose a few bucks, that's fine. But people know they aren't going to get some "Do the math" trickery from me, either. :thumbup:
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How much negotiation is there with "net to me", really? I've seen you make that statement before. Seems to me, "net to me" doesn't mean "negotiation". It means "you can pay anything you want, just as long as it's my price plus whatever Paypal will charge. So, in essence, $200 doesn't mean $200, it means "you'd better send me $206, or no deal." That's what "net to me" means. I mean, what's the negotiation "I'll buy your knife if YOU (rightfully) pay the fees." If you will accept that, then why bother with the "net to me" trickery?
So, I can't speak for others, but when I personally see "net to me", I think it's lazy and so I just don't do business with that person. Same for the "Use gift!" people (folks I don't know).
I have a very short list of folks here who I will accept gift payments from, and I do that because they know they can trust me to make good on any transaction we do. That list is VERY small (amusingly, two of 'em have posted in this thread.
Net to me is a cowardly way of saying "You pay the Paypal fees, please." Why not just say that up front?
As an aside, I've shifted to covering Paypal fees, shipping, and full insurance on any knife I sell. So, I lose a few bucks, that's fine. But people know they aren't going to get some "Do the math" trickery from me, either. :thumbup:
The amount of negotiation depends on the other party to the transaction. What I would say is that I've been involved in just about every kind of transaction you can imagine. And the ability to negotiate in an unconstrained and fully-disclosed way has led to more than one successful if not unconventional conclusion.
Once again, I like to be able to make choices and I like to give my customers the opportunity to do the same thing. I also like to know what I'm being charged for and I like my customers to know the same thing. YMMV.
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Let me ask this. If your auction says "I'll need $200 net to me." and I reply with "I'll send you $200, will that cover everything and you say no, then "net to me" means "I need you to pay shipping and Paypal fees." So, why not just say that then? Again I ask, what negotiations are there? Are you going to agree to eat the Paypal fees? Or the shipping? Or the cost of insurance? If not, then...?
I know you feel that your way gets you customers, and if it works for you, that's awesome. For many of us, however, the "net to me" shens are a turn-off. I am a direct person, and so "I want you to contact me so we can dicker around about what parts of this transaction I'll make you pay for, even though my initial statement is that I expect you to pay for all of them, to include Paypal fees I should be paying as the seller" is the fastest way to get me to pass "net to me" auctions by.
As I said, if it works for you, that's fine. But many folks aren't "let me haggle over a six dollar charge" kind of folks. I know I'm certainly not. That's why I just eat shipping, PP, insurance. Let's just get it done. No math involved.
To each their own, I guess. But let's at least be clear that there aren't any real negotiations, unless you are prepared to take a lower "net to me" number.
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"Net to me " is the amount of money that I need to be able put in my pocket when the smoke has cleared and the dust has settled to make the deal happen. In my transactions, that amount (and the fact that you have to be at least 18 years old to purchase a knife from me) are the only things that aren't negotiable. But if it makes you feel better to buy from someone who hides their fees and costs in their "to your door" price rather than discloses them and gives you an opportunity to negotiate them (and other aspects of the sale as well, I might add), please be my guest. Some people need to be led.
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You are answering my question, thank you for that. That answer being "there is no negotiation." If you are saying that you flat out need $200 then it is clear that no, there is no negotiation, thus my point is answered. Why "net to me" is stated instead of "I am charging $200 for this knife, but you will pay all fees associated with shipping, insurance, and any Paypal fees." is beyond me. There is no negotiation there.
reapinItUP
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$200 net is the price of my knife. That includes standard shipping. Now if you want to pay by paypal yes you'll need to add the 3.5% or gift. If you want to pay by Money order than send $200. If you want an overnight shipping thats cool too. Just add the extra cost. To me that seems straight up and easy to understand. For the people that want to send a money order, they don't have to incur the fee for paypal because they aren't using that service. When its a high priced item that amount can be substantial. I just don't get the animosity by some because some use 'net to me.'
The basic, inherent and unavoidable problem is that you actually agreed that you wouldn't add a surcharge to make the buyer pay YOUR fees when you chose to accept Paypal as a form of payment. YOU agreed to the conditions of using Paypal and you're not honoring that agreement but now you want to try to talk your way around that fact by saying that you're giving your customer a "Choice" in how they pay.
You agreed to Paypal's terms but you're not honoring those agreements when you tell a customer to cover your fees or use the gift option (something you also agreed to avoid using for the purchase of goods)....
Now a customer is supposed to trust that you'll honor any agreement that you make with them. It just doesn't follow. Why would someone trust you to honor your agreement when you've already shown that you have no problem not honoring the agreements you made with Paypal?
I tried an experiment here when I sold a couple of knives in the past....I said that Paypal fees were included in my price unless the buyer expects THEIR buyers to pay the Paypal fees when they sell items. Guess what, not one of the three buyers admitted to charging their buyers fees even when two of those buyers were running current ads that required buyers to pay the fees.....the simple truth is that you can't trust someone that demonstrates to you that agreements and honesty mean nothing to them.
I agree with him....I use NET so I can allow people with MO to actually buy my knife....the same way I ship worldwide as well so others can enjoy these knives too....there is a BIG difference between GIFT and NET. Nobody is asking you to pay GIFT when asked NET. If you don't feel paying for PayPal fees on top of the NET price then you are welcome go send MO and wait.
Again, NET does not mean GIFT
Also, if you really want to rip someone off it doesn't matter how the buyer pays, GOODS or GIFT the seller can get away thru Paypal loopholes. Check out eBay scammers they use whatever they want and still get away with Paypal.
People get way too wrapped up on gift discussions, there are other majorly influential ways of determining if someone is a scammer or not.....aka search button at the top. If either the seller or the buyer wants to rip the other side off there is nothing that will prevent that ....not even Paypal Goods.
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reapinItUP
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Saying that a seller who uses net to me or add 3.5% is more likely a dishonest person is a little bit of a stretch. Half the sellers here have done this before in their sales adds. How about if instead I said $200 net is the price of my knife. That includes PP. But shipping is an extra $8. Either way the seller is calculating the amount he receives is $200. And I never tell the buyer to use "gift." Its his choice if he wants to use it or not. But I'm not going to tell him he has to pay goods or he can't buy my knife.
I'm not saying anything.....the actions of sellers that refuse to honor their agreement with Paypal is what's doing the talking. It's a simple truth. They've agreed to something and now they're showing that they're comfortable not honoring an agreement.
Just imagine how simple this would all be if we just did what we agreed to do....
"Net to me" sounds all official and business like. My dealings with non-retailers are for fun, not business. Also, I see the use of "my customers" here a lot. That implies one is buying and selling for profit and should have a dealer's membership. When I sold off my entire collection piece by piece to pay bills several years ago even that became fun, buying selling and trading with members here. I am retired now and thinking about cutting way back on "things" so my current collection may soon be sold. I would have started by now if not for the negatives I see going on. I just don't need the drama.
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Paypal fees and appropriate shipping should be on the seller... if you want to force people to not use paypal, then you'll miss out on a chunk of potential buyers, so in essence, that fee is enabling you to reach a broader market who are more apt to do business with you because they feel protected in the transaction. Asking for extra fees outside of your asking price is asking the buyer to either pay your fees or remove their buyer protection in order to spend less.
"Net to me" is the brief way of saying, "You do the math on what my price really is, and I am trying to catch more people with a lower displayed price than is true"
I especially have a problem with the price +4% lists... everyone knows paypals fee and the 1% extra may not seem like much but it's the principle of it.
"Net to me" is the brief way of saying, "You do the math on what my price really is, and I am trying to catch more people with a lower displayed price than is true"
I especially have a problem with the price +4% lists... everyone knows paypals fee and the 1% extra may not seem like much but it's the principle of it.
When I sell something I own I decide what I'd like to get out of it, I guess or get an estimate for shipping costs and I already know if someone uses Paypal I'll need to pay that fee. Then I post the item at or maybe a little more than what I'd take for it. I tell any potential buyers that shipping is included as are Paypal or other fees. If someone wants it, they'll either buy it or make an offer, which I'm free to accept or decline. Telling someone what my "net" has to be or trying to charge them more for using Paypal is just raw opportunism and not something I'm willing to get into, nor do I bother trying to buy from those who do. This isn't supposed to be a retail outlet as I understand it, potential or real buyers are not "my customers".
If I want to buy retail, I don't come to an enthusiasts forum to do so.
If I want to buy retail, I don't come to an enthusiasts forum to do so.
I never ask for fee's when selling and if a customer sends a gift payment. I don't refund the money and ask to re-send
I will ask for a gift payment if the customer refuses to pay for tracking and insurance on a higher priced order and is new to me. It just protects me in case of problems. Paypal's only answer to a complaint is send us the tracking number. No number, customers payment is refunded.
Paypal just doesn't seem to understand that international sales with tracking are not possible on small orders due to cost, but they don't care. No tracking number. Customer gets his refund
Gift just protects me
DON
I will ask for a gift payment if the customer refuses to pay for tracking and insurance on a higher priced order and is new to me. It just protects me in case of problems. Paypal's only answer to a complaint is send us the tracking number. No number, customers payment is refunded.
Paypal just doesn't seem to understand that international sales with tracking are not possible on small orders due to cost, but they don't care. No tracking number. Customer gets his refund
Gift just protects me
DON
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