Gift option in paypal

dericdesmond said:
I have things backwards, I used the term click n ship wrong. I thought it was a general term but after googling it got sent straight to usps. I meant I cant print labels from paypal when I get a payment as gift. Will edit my above post and look into click n ship for future shipments :)

As for the rest, I hear ya man, not disputing it, just sounds kinda bad I guess. If thats paypals explanation then I apologize for making it out to be your own.
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No worries bud. These things happen.

Also, I trust USPS click n ship way more then I trust PP's. That's probably not rational but I like knowing that I am buying the service directly from the source.
 
ooitzoo said:
With all due respect. I disagree. Paypal makes a ton of money and is now the primary earnings driver for Ebay (their parent). They know that the gift option is used this way at times and are ok with it up to a certain amount. It's not dissimilar to a bar comping you a drink after you've purchased 4-5.

That said, I generally quote two prices in my sales one for regular PP and one for PP gift. As far as the buyer is concerned they have the choice as to what they pay. Obviously if the sale costs me more then it will be reflected in the price (not dissimilar from asking for express shipping, for example.) Its at the sellers discretion how they want to proceed.
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I had a PayPal rep tell me it's OK to ship to a different address than the one on the payment after the buyer called PayPal and requested it. That turned out to be total BS, there are no verbal exceptions to the user agreement.
You can believe what you like, and you might not get caught, but here is the section from the user agreement pertaining to Personal Payments (which, by the way, are only fee-free if the buyer is paying you with funds already in their PayPal account):

"(section)4. Receiving Money.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments."

If PayPal wanted to "comp" you, they wouldn't do it by instructing their reps to advise you to skirt the rules laid out in the user agreement.
 
FLymon said:
I had a PayPal rep tell me it's OK to ship to a different address than the one on the payment after the buyer called PayPal and requested it. That turned out to be total BS, there are no verbal exceptions to the user agreement.
You can believe what you like, and you might not get caught, but here is the section from the user agreement pertaining to Personal Payments (which, by the way, are only fee-free if the buyer is paying you with funds already in their PayPal account):

"(section)4. Receiving Money.

4.1 Receiving Personal Payments. If you are selling goods or services, you may not ask the buyer to send you a Personal Payment for the purchase. If you do so, PayPal may remove your ability to accept Personal Payments."

If PayPal wanted to "comp" you, they wouldn't do it by instructing their reps to advise you to skirt the rules laid out in the user agreement.
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Dude, do you really believe that all business operate to the letter of the rules that they set forth? Have you read the Ebay user agreement? I am sure it says that a bid is a binding agreement but folks deadbeat their obligations all the time. This happens a lot on auctions I have on Ebay and Ebay does nothing about it. To leverage the analogy further, its implicit that you pay for your food at a restaurant or your drinks at a bar but folks get comps all of the time. Are they breaking some rule? Are they, in fact, robbing the establishment? It's silly to think that they are.

Is it in the user agreement? Yes. Does paypal necessarily care? Probably not. Obviously, if they were unhappy with this activity then they'd bar folks from using it. They don't do that for a reason.

Its not a function of "getting caught." PP obviously know who's receiving "gifts" and who isn't. Its not a mystery to them. I'd be willing to bet that your ability to accept gifts is directly dependent upon how much business you give them.
 
Many sites that involve classified ads (antiques, music instruments, cars, knives, or anything else) are very strict about not allowing sellers who either want to charge for Paypal or ask for the gift option. All across the internet it means the seller is untrustworthy and is asking for the power to keep the money and never honor the deal.

Bladeforums has a great reputation for many things, which is why it is so odd that Bladforums continues to turn a blind eye to this despicable practice.

If you use the service, use it properly or not at all.

K
 
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Gatogordo said:
It's simple, you can be a liar and a thief or you can't, your choice.
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ooitzoo said:
I guess arguing ad hominum is a lot easier then arguing based on actual facts.



.....putz
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Whether you're stealing a car or a candy bar,a thief is a thief.

I've used the gift option as a buyer.I didn't like it,but I really wanted that knife.Honestly,whenever I see add 3% or "Gift" in a for sale ad,it's a bit of a turnoff,& I see it A LOT.
 
Los Angeles said:
Many sites that involve classified ads (antiques, music instruments, cars, knives, or anything else) are very strict about not allowing sellers who either want to charge for Paypal or ask for the gift option. All across the internet it means the seller is distrustworthy and is asking for the power to keep the money and never honor the deal.

Bladeforums has a great reputation for many things, which is why it is so dischordant and confusing that Bladforums continues to turn a blind eye to this despicable practice.

If you use the service, use it properly or not at all.

K
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JTR357 said:
Whether you're stealing a car or a candy bar,a thief is a thief.

I've used the gift option as a buyer.I didn't like it,but I really wanted that knife.Honestly,whenever I see add 3% or "Gift" in a for sale ad,it's a bit of a turnoff,& I see it A LOT.
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So you're actually against giving the buyer an option to pay less vs. more? Am I reading this correctly? Notice, I never said "I use the option and that's it"; I simply use language similar to "you can pay $x or $y" where x>y and y is the PP gift amount. How is this at all despicable?

This is all not to mention that PP doesn't actually care if you do this (provided that its limited and you're giving them other business.)
 
ooitzoo said:
Dude, do you really believe that all business operate to the letter of the rules that they set forth? Have you read the Ebay user agreement? I am sure it says that a bid is a binding agreement but folks deadbeat their obligations all the time. This happens a lot on auctions I have on Ebay and Ebay does nothing about it. To leverage the analogy further, its implicit that you pay for your food at a restaurant or your drinks at a bar but folks get comps all of the time. Are they breaking some rule? Are they, in fact, robbing the establishment? It's silly to think that they are.

Is it in the user agreement? Yes. Does paypal necessarily care? Probably not. Obviously, if they were unhappy with this activity then they'd bar folks from using it. They don't do that for a reason.

Its not a function of "getting caught." PP obviously know who's receiving "gifts" and who isn't. Its not a mystery to them. I'd be willing to bet that your ability to accept gifts is directly dependent upon how much business you give them.
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The median household income in the county I live in is about $45,000, and roughly 10% of the households are below the poverty line. The number of kids receiving free lunches in our schools however just eclipsed 80%. Is anything being done about it, no. Is it against the rules (law actually) to under-report your income to qualify for government programs? I thought so.
Just because they are getting away with it doesn't make them right.

And before you go repeating how PayPal wants you to accept personal payments for items you sell since they haven't stopped you, or your rationalization that it's some kind of "comp" program (wink wink, nudge nudge). I heard you, I just don't agree with you and am perfectly willing to agree to disagree.

FWIW, I don't think you are being dishonest in your sales to list the payment options. You aren't hiding anything from your potential buyers, and they are free to decide what they are comfortable with. Paying price "A", "B", or not buying at all.
I DO think that soliciting personal payments when selling an object absolutely reduces the number of potential customers. And I know it reduces the field by at least one, me.
 
FLymon said:
The median household income in the county I live in is about $45,000, and roughly 10% of the households are below the poverty line. The number of kids receiving free lunches in our schools however just eclipsed 80%. Is anything being done about it, no. Is it against the rules (law actually) to under-report your income to qualify for government programs? I thought so.
Just because they are getting away with it doesn't make them right.

And before you go repeating how PayPal wants you to accept personal payments for items you sell since they haven't stopped you, or your rationalization that it's some kind of "comp" program (wink wink, nudge nudge). I heard you, I just don't agree with you and am perfectly willing to agree to disagree.

FWIW, I don't think you are being dishonest in your sales to list the payment options. You aren't hiding anything from your potential buyers, and they are free to decide what they are comfortable with. Paying price "A", "B", or not buying at all.
I DO think that soliciting personal payments when selling an object absolutely reduces the number of potential customers. And I know it reduces the field by at least one, me.
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Ok, what does the median household income have to do with anything? Random fact: the top 1% own 95% of the wealth in this country. Germaine to the topic at hand? Nope. Just thought I'd throw that in for good measure.

As far as skirting the law (or whatever), that is illegal is based on deception; the folks doing that are banking on not getting caught. In this case Ebay/Paypal know exactly who is sending and receiving PP gifts and they are letting it go on. You have to wonder why they'd do that. Why even have the option to begin with? If the word of two different representatives isn't sufficient for you then fine that's your call. Personally, my feeling is that the reps generally know what they are talking about.

Think about this for a minute: if this was a controversial point then a rep would keep his mouth shut and spout off the CSA as written. They are being recorded after all and could find themselves without a job if they are misleading customers or encouraging something non-kosher.

Just to be clear, you're saying that given the choice between paying two amounts, one less then the other based on using PP gift, your choice would either be pay more or not buy on sheer principle?
 
The rules are clear. They are right there for you to read. You're like the guy that thinks he can cheat at sports as long as the ref isn't looking in your direction.

Cheating is cheating, and congratulations, you've just made it really obvious that you are not a good person to deal with in any manner.

Welcome to the "do not deal with" list, hope it works out great for you.
 
Personally- It's the cost of doing business in an ethical manner.

And if you're willing to cheat in any way for that 3% I don't want to do business with you. You have selective morals- "Paypal makes a ton of money" so it's OK to take your share?

What's funny is- the Sellers ask for the 3% then drops the price $25.


Keep it simple- 1 price Delivered inclusive of all Fees, Shipping and Insurance.
 
braillediver said:
Keep it simple- 1 price Delivered inclusive of all Fees, Shipping and Insurance.
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Without wading into the minutiae, finger pointing or personal attacks already posted above...I happen to agree with braillediver

If necessary, add a note that any additional services (or overseas shipping costs if applicable) are extra. End of story. Everyone's happy. :thumbup:
 
Los Angeles said:
The rules are clear. They are right there for you to read. You're like the guy that thinks he can cheat at sports as long as the ref isn't looking in your direction.
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I guess reading comprehension isn't your strong suit. I never said anything of the sort. This would be more like the ref actually telling to do whatever it is that he's otherwise frown upon (AND the other team benefitting from it as well as you.) A better analogy is the walking over to the ref and politely asking where he stands on some gray area in the rules and getting his blessing. But again, if you can only argue ad hominem then I guess making badly crafted strawmen to beat up isn't too far off for you.

Los Angeles said:
Cheating is cheating, and congratulations, you've just made it really obvious that you are not a good person to deal with in any manner.

Welcome to the "do not deal with" list, hope it works out great for you.
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I think I'll survive without your patronage. :rolleyes:


braillediver said:
Personally- It's the cost of doing business in an ethical manner.

And if you're willing to cheat in any way for that 3% I don't want to do business with you. You have selective morals- "Paypal makes a ton of money" so it's OK to take your share?
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Again, when did I say that? If you ask PP (which I have) they will tell you exactly what I said. For a guy that trades/buys/sells maybe once a quarter you seem to have a lot to say about how others comport themselves. Can I ask what business it is of yours? None? Great, that's what I thought.

Blues said:
Without wading into the minutiae, finger pointing or personal attacks already posted above...I happen to agree with braillediver

If necessary, add a note that any additional services (or overseas shipping costs if applicable) are extra. End of story. Everyone's happy. :thumbup:
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So you would be against giving the buyer an option?

BTW, not sure why this needs to be said but how is this different from asking for the purchase to be paid in cash/check/MO? All of these methods cost nothing (or in the case of the MO it costs 0.85 to the buyer) and they provide the exact same protections as PP gift with the added hassle of having to goto the mailbox/PO.
 
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I never pay with gift option unless im giving a gift.If the seller requests it,ill add the 3% even though it seems like kind of a rip.What really bugs me is when i post an "ill take it" and then the seller requests gift payment with no mention of it in the sale listing.When im the one selling i feel its worth the minimal fee to get the cash in my account right now.Nothing is free guys.
 
Seals said:
I never pay with gift option unless im giving a gift.If the seller requests it,ill add the 3% even though it seems like kind of a rip.What really bugs me is when i post an "ill take it" and then the seller requests gift payment with no mention of it in the sale listing.When im the one selling i feel its worth the minimal fee to get the cash in my account right now.Nothing is free guys.
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I agree with this. One should make his method of payment clear from the start.
 
ooitzoo said:
So you would be against giving the buyer an option?

BTW, not sure why this needs to be said but how is this different from asking for the purchase to be paid in cash/check/MO? All of these methods cost nothing (or in the case of the MO it costs 0.85 to the buyer) and they provide the exact same protections as PP gift with the added hassle of having to goto the mailbox/PO.
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As I said, without getting into the whole megillah, I think it's best to keep it simple. You name a price, someone decides if it's worth it to them or not. No calculator, no fractions, no major headaches.

And though I can see your point of view regarding the differing costs...everyone's situation is different. I've got to drive about 5 miles each way to get to the local post office, spend time and gas doing so, get the M.O. etc etc etc. What's worth it to one guy is a hassle to another.

This is why I think that it makes sense to just post a price where you have already calculated the costs into it above your own "bottom line". If you make a few bucks more (or less) so be it.
There are more important things to worry about imho...To each his own.
 
If someone asks for the gift option, i dont even say, "hey, i'm going to pay the regular way", I just pull up the paypal calculator(google it), and pay(send) the extra 3% or whatever it is. I just round up and send it. I always make a comment to them that i went ahead and sent an extra 3-4% bla blah blah....

The extra money to pay(on both sides) is a joke for everyone to be arguing for or against. I'm usually buying a 400+ knife, so the extra 3-4% isn't going to break me if it adds some type of protection to both sides.

As for selling an item, just add the cost in the overall price, and get over it. At least your not paying ebay fees;)
 
Seals said:
I never pay with gift option unless im giving a gift.If the seller requests it,ill add the 3% even though it seems like kind of a rip.What really bugs me is when i post an "ill take it" and then the seller requests gift payment with no mention of it in the sale listing.When im the one selling i feel its worth the minimal fee to get the cash in my account right now.Nothing is free guys.
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I've never had that happen, but would consider it to be changing the terms after tha fact and might cause me to rescind my "I'll take it".
 
Some people would be surprised to know how many people will look right over a listing that wants someone to pay fees or do PP gift. I've passed over good deals because of this and know several others that will also. It's a measure of integrity IMO.
 
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