Gift option in paypal

[bld522]

EXACTLY, if a seller tells you that you can pay one of two prices; one for PP and another for MO its no different then if they quoted you a PP gift price (with the exception that you need to waste your time and money going to the PO to get a money order.) If you trust your seller then this shouldn't be an issue. Obviously, one needs to tread lightly when it comes to newer sellers, those with spotty records, or those that give you a bad feeling in your gut. From a buyers perspective, its a matter of trust.

Right. As always, caveat emptor.

 

[ooitzoo]

Facts:
The buyer never pays a fee (to PayPal) when using PayPal. It costs nothing to send money using PayPal, only to receive money.
Sellers are violating the terms of service when they ask buyers to pay PayPal fees.
The personal payment or "gift" option is not available unless the giver has the funds in their PayPal account.
The personal payment option is not supposed to be used to pay for, or receive payment for a sale.

Opinion:
If you accept personal payments when selling for the purpose of avoiding the PayPal fees, weather you share those fees with the buyer or not, you're cheating. That doesn't mean I think you would try to steal my wallet if given the opportunity, or that I think less of you in any meaningful way, but it is cheating. Just own it.

I made a deal with the state that (among many other things) I would not exceed the posted speed limit when driving on their roads, but I do! I drive about 9 - 10 miles per hour over almost everywhere I go, always have. I know it's "wrong" but I do it because I gain time, and in my almost 28 years of driving I have been caught doing it exactly 1 time. I think the time gained was worth the penalty.

If you get caught (and it would seem that PayPal looks the other way most of the time just like the hundreds of police I have passed while speeding did, until that one time), the prescribed punishment is that your ability to use the personal payment feature "may" be removed. In the meantime you will be gaining money.
Maybe I am the dummy for not "using" the gift option while I can?

I don't think we made a deal with the state with regard to the speeding limit. The state arbitrarily decided to make the limit what it is and can arbitrarily change it to whatever it deems is "safe". But I get your point.

In this case though, PP has actually said that they don't care to an extent. Its no different then a cop telling you that they won't stop you if you're exceeding the limit by some reasonable amount (typically 5-10mph).

Fact: Most sellers calculate PayPal fees when establishing their selling price or add the fees to their selling price if the buyer chooses to pay via PayPal. It's called pass-through. Although the seller cuts the check to PayPal, the buyer invariably pays the fees one way or the other.

Yep. So how is it better for the buyer (assuming they trust their seller) to pay more?

Also, it does not say anything about my integrity if I allow some to gift the money because they wanted too. I don't ask them to do it. I really don't see what is so hard to understand here...

So just so that I am clear, your stance is that its only wrong if you ask for it?

"No judge, see its ok that I took a stolen car as payment; I didn't ask for it. He volunteered..."

 

[FLymon]

Wrong and wrong. If I send a gift using my CC Paypal charges me. Otherwise they would pay for it and lose money. You can gift money from a CC. I do it all the time. Someone has to pay the CC transaction fee.

OK, didn't know you could send a gift with a credit card. That makes sense, just didn't know it was an option.
I was referring to paying for a purchase.

 

[FLymon]

In this case though, PP has actually said that they don't care to an extent. Its no different then a cop telling you that they won't stop you if you're exceeding the limit by some reasonable amount (typically 5-10mph).

Just like your stolen car analogy, see how well "so and so told me it was ok" goes over if it ever becomes an issue.

 

[ooitzoo]

Just like your stolen car analogy, see how well "so and so told me it was ok" goes over if it ever becomes an issue.

If it becomes an issue, and that's a big if btw, then PP has already made clear what their recourse is; they stop letting you send/receive gifts for some period of time.

 

[CWL]

This one is still being discussed?

Believe what you will but the simple fact is that you willfully entered into a business agreement when signing up with PayPal. They provide a valuable service and you agreed to pay them a certain percentage for this service.

This is a contractual obligation.

Doesn't matter if you can get around this or not, you have broken your word in a business deal.

 

[bld522]

That about sums it up. Of course, getting in a car and driving over the posted speed limit is a violation of your obligation to obey the law. But just about everybody does that anyway.

In the final analysis, it's up to each individual to decide whether it's acceptable to use the PP gift option to transact business, contractual obligations notwithstanding.

Let the good times roll!

 

[allyourblood]

Again, I've said this before and I think it bears repeating; if you actually ask a PP rep on policy towards PP gift they will tell you that they are perfectly fine with it assuming that you're a good/steady customer of theirs.

Sorry for bumping this thread, but this was a "hot button" issue on another large forum I frequent, and I have some firsthand experience with what's being discussed.

I was tired of seeing folks charging for fees, usually some random percentage (2.5%-4% or thereabouts) and it also seemed to me a matter of integrity. I initially discussed the matter with site moderators but none seemed too concerned with the issue and no one pursued it. I opened a thread to discuss it and was quite surprised at the amount of ire that was stirred on the behalf of those in favor of the gift option. Honestly, it was a multi-page flogging that resulted in my PM box filling quickly with angry missives and some nasty insults, all over the matter of that small service fee!

Anyway, to address this point, oitzoo, which you keep bringing up: yes, I have contacted Paypal regarding this issue. In fact, I've discussed it with them over the phone on several occasions and spoken with numerous representatives at various levels of seniority. My point at the time was to determine precisely their stance on the matter and how exactly their policy is enforced, if at all. Every last one of Paypal's representatives I spoke with told me the exact same thing, every time: it is against Paypal's terms of service to circumvent sellers' fees for any transaction, and if any seller is found doing so, they will not only consider removing the gift option from one's account, but may even suspend the account while under evaluation, in some cases indefinitely. They conceded that Paypal isn't always able to determine whether or not any particular gift/personal payment is genuine, but all efforts are made to discourage abuse of the feature.

After offering this information to the forum (as well as weathering another torrent of insults, speculation and rage -- although with folks on both sides of the issue this time), things died down for a few days. Interestingly, shortly thereafter a forum moderator added a post that stated that going forward, the practice was now against forum rules and would no longer be tolerated. From what I gathered at the time, the mod team was concerned that if word reached Paypal that fee circumvention was taking place on such a large scale within the forum's membership, it may bring undue attention or somehow affect the site's standing with advertisers and other various partnerships. As to whether or not that was indeed the case is anyone's guess.

So yeah, I've spoken with Paypal about it, and no, they are definitely not "fine" with it. Whoever you spoke to was absolutely misinformed or simply lying to you. As a Paypal member since nearly its inception and an Ebay seller since 1999, I can attest to the fact that Paypal is quite a no-nonsense company that simply does not take a relaxed attitude toward this sort of behavior.

Now, as silly as it sounds, Paypal will tell you that you always have the option to increase your prices to whatever makes you comfortable and to freely factor in your final costs when setting them. If you want $200, charge $208 (or whatever). But according to the TOS, you may not charge "$200 plus $8 for fees". Sure, for most people it may boil down to a simple matter of semantics, but if that's the case, why argue? As others have already mentioned, simply fold the fee into your advertised price and off you go. Someone will buy the item eventually, and if not, your price is too high: it's hard to imagine the 3-4% fees are what's holding things back.

I will say that at one time, years ago, I myself charged Paypal's fees here on BF before I gave any consideration to what was really taking place, and I have long since changed my stance. Paypal allows you to accept payment for goods and services quickly and conveniently. In exchange, you pay fees for the privilege. The gift, or personal payment is in place as a courtesy and convenience, and for the most part, it is based on the honor system. Should you decide to use it for some other purpose, while that is your choice, consider that it may have bigger repercussions in the future: Paypal was quick to point out to me several times that should the option become excessively abused, they may consider terminating it from the service altogether.

 

[ooitzoo]

Firstly, allow me to clarify the statement above. I never (not once that I can remember) charged someone $x + 3% fees (or any permutation thereof.) My stance is simple, I can charge one price with PP fees included or another (lower price) if the buyer is willing to use PP gift. My prices are always CONUS shipping included (int'l is a different story for a couple of reasons.) My personal belief is that the buyer has a choice as to what option they select. Its their call. However, if a transaction costs me more shouldn't that be reflected in the price? If you think your local grocery store doesn't do the same then you're highly deluded.

I won't question that you spoke to PP as there is no reason to but I will ask when you spoke to them. The reason being that my experience was relatively recent (~3mos or so.) I too have been an Ebay seller for over a decade and have used PP (and its predecessor companies) for quite some time. As I mentioned earlier, their strategy is quite well defined and closely followed (I won't bother re-explaining it as its mentioned in my previous posts.) Either way, to each his/her own. If you want to take a moral stand against using the gift option then do so but I have to question anyone who insists that they follow all rules at all times.

 

[Bigfattyt]

Just to be clear, you're saying that given the choice between paying two amounts, one less then the other based on using PP gift, your choice would either be pay more or not buy on sheer principle?

My position, is I DON'T want to loose my money, and never receive the item I paid for, and have no recourse through PayPal recovery.

I would rather pay the fee my self, than worry that my knife is not going to make to me, and PayPal won't protect me.


The feedback GoodBadUgly is full of people who pay by gift option and get screwed.


When I sell, I will take either paypal or Postal MO or personal check if I know you.

I just price the knife accordingly. I don't sell a ton, or buy a ton.

 

[ooitzoo]

My position, is I DON'T want to loose my money, and never receive the item I paid for, and have no recourse through PayPal recovery.

I would rather pay the fee my self, than worry that my knife is not going to make to me, and PayPal won't protect me.


The feedback GoodBadUgly is full of people who pay by gift option and get screwed.


When I sell, I will take either paypal or Postal MO or personal check if I know you.

I just price the knife accordingly. I don't sell a ton, or buy a ton.

This is a different matter. As far as buyer security goes, and I think I touched on it earlier as well, its a matter of trust. If you trade with someone and agree to send first or same time send there is the risk of getting swindled. This is why GBU and the feedback system is in place. Its simply a matter of trusting the other side to deliver on their end. If the seller has low/no feedback then one should proceed with caution. If however the seller has quite a bit of feedback and there is no reason to doubt them then its fair to proceed as you would in a trade.

Also, Money order/check offer no real protections either (relative to PP gift.)

 

[Ken44]

The gift or personnel option is not for purchasing. PP makes that clear. I feel it is dishonest to use gift/personnel for a purchase, and will not.
If someone gives me a gift price I just go ahead and add 3.5%, and pay the right way.