Give a break for a DUI? What do you think?

[JB12]

Not only did you probably save his life, you probably saved another innocent person as well.

 

[not2sharp]

Originally posted by N2S:

Although, on a practical level, it is unwise and dangerous to point a gun at anything you don't intend to shoot. It should not be unlawful, as long as it is neither an assault, nor an attack on that individual. Especially, when you believe said individual may constitute a serious physical threat towards you or yours. It is better to be prepared and judged then dead and carried by six. BTW, where would your gun be pointed when you needed it?

Well, if you think that walking down the sidewalk pointing guns at people is okay, then I guess DUI should be okay in your book as well.

Was that the scenario?

n2s

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

If you have had a drink or two and are worried about being pulled over you do not drive more than double the speed limit in a residential area. That guy was obviously soused and there was no excuse for his behavior. You did the right thing. He needed to lose his license over this.

Now, DWI arrests back in NY are often another thing altogether.

One thing they'll do is charge and convict someone for DWI who is not driving a car, even if the car has been parked all night and the keys are not in the ignition. If you are at the pub, decide you are too drunk to drive and sleep it off in the back seat they will beat on the window until you open the door. If you refuse to open the door they will smash the window and Mace you. My Dad knew a guy who was arrested for being over the legal limit while asleep in the back of an RV that was in a parking lot. If you have the key in your possession you are "in control of" the vehicle and will be convicted for DWI even if you had not been driving.

Then there is the game that goes, "Let's fly up on this guy's rear bumper at 80 mph and slam on the brakes at the last minute, tailgate him for a couple fof miles, fall back, do it again, then see what he does" or "Let's follow this guy with no headlights for 5 miles, then SURPRISE him with siren, spotlights and flashers." The reason they pulled you over? "Weaving within lane" which is not a citable offense.

Another game that NYSP likes to play is "let's make every single driver on this street go through an obstacle course then submit to a breathalyzer test." That's right. They set up a roadblock, direct every car into a parking lot where dozens of orange cones are set up, then ask you to consent to a breathalyzer test. If you refuse they make you get out of the car and take a field sobriety test.

DWAI (lesser charge than DWI) is something like one beer within the past 2 hours. Or a shot of NyQuil.

I fully support getting drunk drivers off the street, but games like that made me lose a lot of respect for law enforcement in NY.

 

[eyeeatingfish]

I wanted to add that I had decided there were times I would be ok with letting DUI drivers off with a warning. The instance would be when work is very busy, we are short handed, and arresting the suspect would cause my partners danger as they would have no back up if they got into trouble.

 

[eyeeatingfish]

Arresting people to meet a one-per-week quota (even if self-imposed)? Arresting people to impress/please your boss? Arresting people because you want the extra spending money that comes from court overtime?

The citizens have not given officers the authority to arrest people to ammuse themselves, please their bosses, or pick up q little extra spending money for themselves.

Is any ever "pretty for you?" Again, that is not why citizens have given officers the authority to arrest people. Just the officer's choice of words here is very telling, IMHO.

I don't know why you focus on those other aspects while ignoring the one where I talk about getting a drunk driver off the street and serve justice. I also don't see what is wrong with a personal quota as it is more of a work ethic that a government money scheme or a meaningless data requirement.

I am not going to lie and say that there are no benefits from arresting drunk drivers. I am telling you the whole truth that along with a DUI arrest comes various consequences and that some of those consequences are beneficial. I don't think this is inherently a bad thing.

Like I have said I don't do it for the money, the money is just a bonus.
I don't think acknowledging that there are in fact other benefits need imply that I was doing it for some other benefit. The scorn I have gotten from my beat partners sure isn't worth the benefit of the brass liking me because I found a DUI.

 

[Gollnick]

I don't know why you focus on those other aspects while ignoring the one where I talk about getting a drunk driver off the street...

As I said, I have -- depending on who you ask -- either a remarkable ability or an annoying habit of seeing the forest when pointed to one tree. Sorry.

As for the arrest, from what you have shared, it was the right thing to do if the man was clearly significantly drunk and going twice the speed limit. That was good for him and for the public.

But, I really do think you do need to consider your future options. Do you want to drink this koolaide or not?

 

[philwar]

Arresting people to meet a one-per-week quota (even if self-imposed)? Arresting people to impress/please your boss? Arresting people because you want the extra spending money that comes from court overtime?

The citizens have not given officers the authority to arrest people to ammuse themselves, please their bosses, or pick up q little extra spending money for themselves.



Is any ever "pretty for you?" Again, that is not why citizens have given officers the authority to arrest people. Just the officer's choice of words here is very telling, IMHO.

I thought it was kinda hilarious too, but not newsworthy. In fact I appreciate the candor of the OP. I didn't comment on these statements because they're not even 'public' secrets, they're basically common knowledge.

 

[axtalan0]

He was going 52 in a 25 zone and not just borderline drunk. This makes him as potentially dangerous as any armed criminal. You did right, don't let the peer-pressure wear you down!

 

[UffDa]

Arresting people to meet a one-per-week quota (even if self-imposed)? Arresting people to impress/please your boss? Arresting people because you want the extra spending money that comes from court overtime?

In my business, I deal with LEOs quite a bit. We even have some retired LAPD cops who work part. They tell me that there is no quota. They are allowed to arrest as many people as they want.

For those arguing or debating with Mr. Gollnick.....give it up. One thing that I learned here is that you are peeing in the wind. You can't win.

 

[Edgyone]

Discounted food for police protection?? It's hard to buck the trend when you count on your colleagues for your safety and career progression... that's one of the key reasons why I genuinely admire and respect good cops. :thumbup:

I'm not sure of of the department's view of my pragmatic suggestion; book the moron but then have a quick whip around of your cap at the station and help him pay his fine (since you will be simply giving him back money he should have charged you in the first place).

Stay safe!

 

[scotchleaf]

I had a friend in high school killed by a DUI driver. The last time I saw him was a week before when he stopped out of the blue to help me and my dad out when we had run out of gas.

 

[oldschool45]

Your are responsible for your own actions. Courts really haven't been giving this much thought when they hand out sentences. If they'd "string a few up" it might actually be a deterrent to the rest. If a drunk driver kills my family they are only safe till they get out of jail If they have a record of DWI's I'm using the insurance money to make the prosecutors and judges responsible legally miserable. Not bravado not BS just cold hard math.
To the OP if the peer pressure is that great, over this, there is something to be said for waiting till this blows over and looking for a new Department.

 

[Striderco]

Tough one. i think i would ve cut him a break, with a very stern warning. But the right thing to do is what you did. What if you didnt take him in and he hit and killed someone? You were just doing your job. Peoples lives are worth alot more than a half price meal!!

 

[rweeks]

Of course you did the right thing. There is no way to argue that you didn't. Fade the heat with your buddys and you might just earn some respect, at least with the real cops (not the ones more concerned with 1/2 off dinner than doing their friggin jobs). Hang in there! Soon enough somebody else will wreck a squad or piss off the admins and this will be old news.

 

[eyeeatingfish]

I do have to admit that I never fought the half off discount at the restaurant. I should probably start asking to pay full price, though that probably wont get me a vote of confidence either.

 

[JGON]

I do have to admit that I never fought the half off discount at the restaurant. I should probably start asking to pay full price, though that probably wont get me a vote of confidence either.

I attempted to throw a free meal to a few LEO's the other day in the restaurant that I run. They turned it down, saying that they can't accept freebies for one reason or another...

When it comes to DUI's, I've been down that road. After I got mine, I took a close look at my choices and realized that this was not worth the trouble, I had a lot going for me, and that choosing to behave like that was costing me both personally and professionally. I made the choice to quit drinking entirely almost three years ago, not just drinking and driving, and it was a decision that has benefited me in more ways than I can count. I am thankful that I was given a DUI from my local LEO's, because I am one of the few that actually learned from it and made myself a better person.

At one point almost a year ago, I was on my way home from a concert when I noticed a car swerving dangerously all over the road, speeding, dodging in and out of traffic, completely wreckless and unable to stay in their lane. I knew it was a drunk driver, and it was a very dangerous situation on the freeway. I called it in, and ended up following the guy for 15 miles and he nearly lost it at over 75 miles an hour several times. The cops pulled him over, and arrested him for his 4th DUI. I felt weird about doing it, but in the end, I just hope that the guy could learn from it and possibly make some positive changes like I did. I know this is the goal for many LEO's, to make positive changes in the world and get bad people off the street, but more often than not, after they serve their sentence they are right back at it.

 

[Command45]

I am a firm believer that things happen for a reason, although sometimes the reason is hard to see. For me I can tell you that by you arresting that man and now the backlash occuring hopefully the greater noise created the more people will think twice before driving under the influence in our community.

 

[PropThePolecat]

The .08 limit is absurdly low; 2 glasses of wine in
an hour is enough to put most folks over the line.

There is a reason, as to why the limit is so low. That because impairment begins at 0.04. Driving skills are affected at 0.08.

Where i live, the limit is 0.05

 

[ttoney83]

A recent experience at work has made the people I work with not real happy with me at the time. For those who don't know I work in law enforcement at night.
DUIs are pretty common and I try to get one arrest a week. It is good all around because I take a dangerous person off the road, the bosses are happy showing that we get stuff done, and the court overtime money helps give me spending money.

I had one the other night and I knew that it probably was not going to be pretty for me because he works at a restaurant where I work. The restaurant is the only place to sit down and eat at night and they give us 1/2 off. Per policy we are not supposed to accept discounts and gifts but most take the discount anyway.

So I make the decision to arrest him anyway because he was driving drunk and speeding 52 in a 25 zome. He was not borderline drunk either. He was cooperative and polite. Well since cops have to be the worst gossipers everyone knows pretty darn fast and the reactions range from loud anger to people muttering comment such as a sarcastic "thanks"

They all reason that I could have given him a warning and made him call someone to come get him, that there are other fish in the sea, etc. But to me it is more than that, or at least that is how I reason it. I will give a speeder a warning but I don't like to let a DUI driver off with a warning. How do I justify me letting this guy go while the next guy gets no such chance because he doesn't work somewhere that givs us discount? How does this guy learn his lesson? What if he drives drunk the next day and kills someone?
I accept not being able to eat certain places as part of my job and a discount is a priveledge, if it stops then I should be grateful that I had it this long not complain that it ended.

Yeah I could have let him go but it does not feel just. It is probably not the type of thing you think of when you hear about governent corruption but realistically how is it not? This guy gets away with a crime because he gives us a discount. On the other hand everyone is affraid that someone will spit in their food and they feel we should give the worker a favor since we got the cheap food.

I even explained to the sgt and he told me that maybe this area is not for me. Yeah I am young and still idealistic but to me it just is not right. But if it came to a cop's wife I almost garuntee would not arrest unless I had to. I admit that somewhere I end up drawing the line with a double standard but I don't think I have the balls to arrest a coworkers wife.

So what do you guys think?

EDIT: I wanted to add that I had decided there were times I would be ok with letting DUI drivers off with a warning. The instance would be when work is very busy, we are short handed, and arresting the suspect would cause my partners danger as they would have no back up if they got into trouble.

I think you did the right thing eyeeatingfish. Letting someone off who's been speeding or, maybe made an improper lane change are totally different. Both persons pulled over and getting a warning for these are likely to drive a bit more carefully, at least for a while. The DUI is still intoxicated and still a risk. I don't care if it's my mother or the Pope, I would arrest them and put them in jail to sober up.

If the guy from the restaraunt is a real man he will not hold the grudge after he sobers up. He messed up, he got caught, man up and take the consequences.

 

[tyr_shadowblade]

If the guy from the restaraunt is a real man he will not hold the grudge after he sobers up. He messed up, he got caught, man up and take the consequences.

He obviously messed up and anyone who says different is an idiot . . . but I would stop eating there. He be makin sweet luvvvv to your sammich before putting it on the plate.

Back in VA cops would get arrested for DUI fairly regularly, whereas back in NY it was SOP to let a fellow officer, or anyone with a FOP card, go home with a warning.

There was a judge in upstate NY whose son got cited for DUI for being triple the legal limit after driving down an embankment into a creek. The judge told the deputy he needed to quash the citation and he refused. Deputy was subsequently fired. A few months later he was hired by a PD in a neighboring county.