Glock vs ZT, my edc combo

[jill jackson]

0450cf

 

[XtianAus]

0450cf

Thank you

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

If that were the case Glock would not have:
A....

The "piece" is called "slide STOP" lever. There is a difference between the old G manuals and new-ones, in the new manuals G advises to release the slide by pulling it slightly backwards.
The difference between operating the slide STOP lever in Glock and Slide RELEASE lever in Sig weapons is even noted in some old courses, I can name one by J.Yeager for example.
Glock got away with the "release" suggestion before gen3, after they introduced the second gen3 model with the longer rails, it is safe to do it, but they continue to recommend to release the slide by puling it back,
which is better technique than releasing it from the SS lever.
There is also difference between EU and US manuals. I would assume you have one of the old US manuals. It should be dated, I'm curious to find out what year it was printed.
The extended slide stop lever exist since mid 80s when Glock manufactured the model 17 Pro for the Finland Military, it is associated with sport only about 10-15 years back, when G35 started to gain ground in IPSC.

There are lots of guesses in your A. B. and so on list, lets stick with the subject of the thread, otherwise mods will shut it down and it'll be a shame, there are so many beautiful ugly Glocks and ZTs out there...

 

[PuddleMonkey]

I can name one by J.Yeager for example.

Really? James Yeager is your go to for this stuff? The guy who threatened to kill innocent people on youtube? Seriously? The guy whose class nearly killed someone recently because of idiot instructors? C'mon.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

James Yeager is your go to for this stuff?...

No, it's not. But before the events that made him unpopular in yours and my eyes ( and it's not really the threats video I'm referring to ),
he ran some courses and I'm referring to the facts he mentioned in those courses. It's not who the person is, it's what his technical statements worth and he is very proficient in the technical part.
It's obvious that you are not very familiar with the stuff you're commenting on, otherwise you would not change the subject with Yeager,
and probably ask what are the inconsistencies with your own statements that I'm talking about, like this-one:

B. Wasted time texturing the part for better grip.

Well, the texturing on the Slide STOP lever is not so much for disengaging the slide as you are implying if I got you correctly from the exchange with mqqn.
Here is a little hint for you...

 

[PuddleMonkey]

No, it's not. But before the events that made him unpopular in yours and my eyes ( and it's not really the threats video I'm referring to ),
he ran some courses and I'm referring to the facts he mentioned in those courses. It's not who the person is, it's what his technical statements worth and he is very proficient in the technical part.
It's obvious that you are not very familiar with the stuff you're commenting on, otherwise you would not change the subject with Yeager,
and probably ask what are the inconsistencies with your own statements that I'm talking about, like this-one:

B. Wasted time texturing the part for better grip.

Well, the texturing on the Slide STOP lever is not so much for disengaging the slide as you are implying if I got you correctly from the exchange with mqqn.
Here is a little hint for you...

Are you even understanding my argument or are you trying to create an argument for me that isn't even there? Lets rewind, a page ago I listed why I don't like Glocks:

"Horrific trigger, cheap plastic sights, poor ergonomics, useless slide release & a plastic guide rod."

A comment was posted that said,

"it is a slide stop and is not supposed to be used to release the slide and chamber a round."

You understand my point is the "slide stop" had two functions when designed and I'm not arguing what Glock wants to call it, correct? Those two functions, as found on most handguns, are locking the slide back once the magazine is empty and having the option to chamber a round which can also be accomplished by pulling back on the slide with your other hand. I don't care that umpteen years later Glock or James "I'm Gonna Start Killing People" Yeager stopped telling you to use it to release the slide, its original design on the Glock was one I found poorly executed and thus my "useless" comment. "Slide Stop vs Slide Release" was never the argument, my point is the way it is designed there was intention to use it to release the slide.

You wanted to call my points flimsy yet you didn't do anything to refute them. You even posted a photo that did nothing to explain why the texturing was added but called me wrong. Nonetheless, I'll explain each of my points in further detail and give you another chance.

"A. Made it so the piece drapes over the side of the frame."

It's common sense, if this piece was never meant to be used to disengage the slide they would have made it an internal part and not external on the gun. You wouldn't need it to show on the outside of the gun if its only purpose was to lock the slide back.

"B. Wasted time texturing the part for better grip."

Any time you add a part or step to the production process you increase your overall cost of production. They didn't texture the part because they thought it looked pretty. I'd love to hear why you think they put those cuts in it.

"C. Sell an extended version that they also make stock on their competition guns."

I feel like this one shouldn't need explaining. "Don't use it to release the slide, but here's an extended version of the part that's easier to use to release the slide." herp derp.

"D. Tell you to use it as such in the user manual."

I posted a photo of a Glock manual that told you to release the slide with your thumb and it showed a picture of someone doing so as an example. You say the manual is older, which it is, but it only further illustrates the reason the part is designed the way it is and proves all of my points.

 

[mqqn]

Why is there 3/4" of additional rearward slide travel available when the slide is locked in the open position?

Based on your assumptions of the design of the slide-stop, you would also have to weigh the designer's intention when designing the slide operation and spring weights etc, and that the intention was for the slide to follow it's full path of travel in order to reliably chamber a round.

Just following your logic there.

At most USPSA matches I have been at, most of the people use the slide stop to release the slide and functionally there is no problem.

However, after thousands of rounds and using that slide stop, the stop can round off the slide groove and cause failures to lock back on empty magazine. It happens on guns that are well used. (Don't ask how I know...)

So - feel free to operate your handguns however you choose. Advice is just that, take it or leave it.

best

mqqn

 

[Amoo]

UM, who cares? More pictures.

 

[mqqn]

UM, who cares? More pictures.

UM, and uh like what exactly was, um, YOUR contribution to, like, this thread, dude man?

best

mqqn

 

[Amoo]

UM, and uh like what exactly was, um, YOUR contribution to, like, this thread, dude man?

best

mqqn

Not cluttering it up with pages of useless drivel about why I do or don't like something. If I had a glock I would post a photo, I don't, I like the feel and style of my Rugers so that's what I choose to own. Still enjoy looking at the pictures much more then watching a few birds chirp back and forth about a bunch of junk that has no relevance to the OP and should be taken to a PM if you guys care that much about it.

 

[mqqn]

Not cluttering it up with pages of useless drivel about why I do or don't like something. If I had a glock I would post a photo, I don't, I like the feel and style of my Rugers so that's what I choose to own. Still enjoy looking at the pictures much more then watching a few birds chirp back and forth about a bunch of junk that has no relevance to the OP and should be taken to a PM if you guys care that much about it.

Useless drivel cluttering up thread just above this line.

best

mqqn

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

Are you even understanding my argument or are you trying to create an argument for me that isn't even there? Lets rewind, a page ago I listed why I don't like Glocks:
"Horrific trigger, cheap plastic sights, poor ergonomics, useless slide release & a plastic guide rod."
A comment was posted that said,
"it is a slide stop and is not supposed to be used to release the slide and chamber a round."

You understand my point is the "slide stop" had two functions when designed and I'm not arguing what Glock wants to call it, correct? Those two functions, as found on most handguns, are locking the slide back once the magazine is empty and having the option to chamber a round which can also be accomplished by pulling back on the slide with your other hand... my point is the way it is designed there was intention to use it to release the slide.
You wanted to call my points flimsy yet you didn't do anything to refute them. You even posted a photo that did nothing to explain why the texturing was added but called me wrong. Nonetheless, I'll explain each of my points in further detail and give you another chance.

My friend, you are wrong again and I'll try to do this quick because it's getting annoying.
The action you are describing above is performed by the mag follower, not by you WHEN THE MAG IS EMPTY. Do you understand this ? Your argument was that G went the extra mile putting serrations on the SS lever because they intended also to use it for releasing the slide. OK, who is arguing with you not to do it ? We are explaining why Glock removed this from it's manuals, not telling you to use your Glock any differently than your other guns...
The serrations are there because the SS lever is the only way to LOCK THE SLIDE BACK in case you got for any reason FULL MAG in the weapon, you want to remove it and lock the slide back. This is the only time you MUST USE THE SLIDE STOP LEVER because you have no mag follower to push the SS, regardless if it's extended version or the "original" one. You are stopping the slide back and do whatever you intended to do... Everything else is a matter of choice as mqqn is trying to tell you... Why G made the extended SS lever is completely different story that I'm not going to touch here. The issue with should you release the slide by using the slide stop lever is for you to decide and again - mqqn explained to you what you're risking, nothing else. In non-critical, sport for example environment, when you trying to beat the timer, you can release it any way you want, in critical, life threatening env. as LE, Military or Self Defense, they teach you to use different technique because of fine motor skills specifics and because Glock is targeting primarily those categories purchasers they removed the "release" function after the earlier manuals. That's why I asked you to date your manual. There is difference between G manuals published for US, EU and other parts of the world. There are other contributing issues tho the removal of the "release" option from G manuals that are related to the time Glock was introduced to the public and because of some technical issues but this is far from what we are talking about.
So the serrations are there for you to have some purchase on the skimpy SS original lever when you want to lock the slide back, if you want to release it - more power to you, I never said you shouldn't do it, I said - you don't really understand the concept, nothing else. If you would know what you're commenting you would recognize what the locked slide on my previous picture means, here, one more time:

 

[PuddleMonkey]

Your argument was that G went the extra mile putting serrations on the SS lever because they intended also to use it for releasing the slide.

Yeah, and was proven with a photo of Glock telling and showing it being done. My argument was never what is does to the gun after prolonged used or if Glock removed it from newer manuals. My argument also never had anything to do with Military vs Self Defense or US vs EU which you appear to be stuck on. At this point I'm not even sure what you're arguing anymore.

OK, who is arguing with you not to do it ?

James Yeager, apparently. Speaking of Yeager, did he tell you not to use paragraphs when you post?

We are explaining why Glock removed this from it's manuals

I don't care that Glock removed it from their manuals. Again, that has never been the point. You can PM me if you wish to discuss this further, but it sounds like you just want to chase unicorns.

 

[mqqn]

Some great pieces there - and it really makes me miss my Ruger GP100 with the Goncalo Alves handles.

I opted for the Magnum 500 instead of the .460 - both are a hoot to fire with hotter loads, and with the other caliber options the .460 might have been a better choice, but I still love the 500.

I have an Ultra RCP II - one of my favorite carry pieces -

Wilson Combat - maybe someday - leaning Les Baer at the moment though.

best

mqqn

 

[SW-EDC]

Sweet 500 Mag mqqn!
How's the recoil?

 

[Max Archer]

Now here's a question for the ages: Wilson Combat with a matching Sebenza, or SIG Legion with matching Hinderer?

I'm almost tempted to get the second combo once I move to a CCW-friendly state or if laws here change.

 

[mqqn]

Sweet 500 Mag mqqn!
How's the recoil?

Not bad with my own 380 grain reloads; it's a heavy piece and absorbs a good amount of recoil and the wraparound grips help cushion.

Following is one of my friends firing one of my handloads.

http://www.illinoisfirearmsafetyacademy.com/albums/NRA Class 10182015/#VIDEO0264.mp4

And a picture with a Glock -

best

mqqn

 

[PuddleMonkey]

Some great pieces there - and it really makes me miss my Ruger GP100 with the Goncalo Alves handles.

I opted for the Magnum 500 instead of the .460 - both are a hoot to fire with hotter loads, and with the other caliber options the .460 might have been a better choice, but I still love the 500.

I have an Ultra RCP II - one of my favorite carry pieces -

Wilson Combat - maybe someday - leaning Les Baer at the moment though.

Definitely get the Baer.

I'd take my GP100 over any of my S&W revolvers. Had a stainless one that the forcing cone wore out it got shot so much, pic below.

Nice lineup of ZT's and Performance Center Smith!

 

[SW-EDC]

She did great. Yeah, not too bad on recoil.

 

[POCEH KOCEB]

...but it sounds like you just want to chase unicorns.

No, unicorns or you would be the last two things I want to chase... You said this and speaks volumes why you don't like Glocks:

Originally Posted by PuddleMonkey
...why I don't like Glocks:
"Horrific trigger, cheap plastic sights, poor ergonomics, useless slide release..."

It's not unicorn, you just don't understand why G did it that way.
I really don't want to talk about it, I don't care why you don't like Glocks, Yeager was just a time stamp, I don't like him either, only for different reason than the one you mentioned.
Here he is, wondering around Ernie's isle, trying to get some attention...

I share basically the same opinion about Glocks up till gen 4 and with exception of the SS lever, but all of the negative mentioned is fixable and you're getting a very decent and reliable gun, this was my point.
You didn't have to trash something you don't really understand or care about, nothing personal...

All those pictures doesn't prove much in my eyes, they sounds more like a d!#k measuring competition but I'll give you that you have very nice Sigs and I like also your H&K.
I got rid of most of my guns long time ago, when my son was growing up, otherwise I'd probably beat your picture stream easily, but this is not the point, right... ?