Glocks vs others

Rex G said:
My $0.02 on the XD: I am concerned about not being about to work the slide unless the grip safety is fully depressed. I can see that being a problem if one or both hands are incapacitated due to injury during a gunfight. The XD is a toy for pistol matches.
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Tell me, then, how you would be holding it, if not with a proper grip?

I've heard this mentioned before as a negative for the XD, but I just can't think of any plausible scenario where you'd need to rack the slide without holding the gun properly.

If both hands are useless, how would you shoot it?

Why didn't the slide lock open? Why do you still have something to shoot at 9/13/16/17 rds later?

If there IS something to shoot at and your slide went home on an empty chamber and ONE of your hands is useless, but you still manage to insert a fresh mag, then the way you cycle the slide means you have to hold the gun in a firing grip anyway!!

Now, if I'm missing something here, please enlighten me.


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Absintheur said:
When it comes to the 40 S&W, I still am not sold on the cartridge. It was a answer to a problem that didn't exist....
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It was realized that a niche existed that needed to be filled. When the FBI wanted their 10mm to drive a 180 grain bullet @ 950, it was realized that they could achieve that velocity in a shorter case of 9mm length.

The goal wasn't to outperform the .45 acp, but to put a .40 caliber bullet in a 9mm sized platform. In this, they succeeded tremendously.

The S&W M&P and Glock 22 in .40 holds 15+1, while the 9mm versions hold only two more.

Kick is not an issue with training and proper technique.

I have found it to be a very verstatile auto cartridge.

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There is a big difference between niche and need. There is a niche between the 40S&W and the 45 asp, but do we need the .43NAB (newer and better)? No, we don't, but it wouldn't surprise me to see it made so a company can attach their name to it and it wouldn't surprise me that the FBI would have to have it.

I didn't say the 40 was a bad caliber, I said it wouldn't do anything the calibers that bracket it wouldn't do. The just isn't that much difference in performance to justify a "need" for it. Notice I said need, I didn't say it didn't justify a desire for it. If you pick it as the caliber you want that is fine, it will do a great job for you but it won't do it better than a 9 or 45 will do. However given identical guns, one in 9 and one in 40 a shooter will be just a bit faster with the 9. You cannot change the laws of physics with training, the lower recoil impulse will mean faster time back on sights and target.

9 mm Luger - Recoil Impulse of .78 ms- Recoil Velocity of 17.55 ft/s (5.3 m/s) - Recoil Energy, 6.84 ft·lbf (9.3 J)

40 S&W - Recoil Impulse of .88 ms- Recoil Velocity of 19.73 ft/s (6.0 m/s) - Recoil Energy, 8.64 ft·lbf (11.7 J)

There is a solid reason competition shooters like the 9 for speed competitions, they can run the course of fire faster. Again the 40 is a good round, just not necessarily an improvement. It does give you another caliber choice when picking a firearm.

As a side note...the 38 Super+P will out perform the 40S&W in energy delivered to target and in penetration. It will also work in the 9mm platform. But it is an old round and the FBI has always had a history for going with the newest thing available.

I do have proper training and know proper technique and I am faster with a 9 than I am with the 40 and faster with a 40 than I am with a 45. While I don't shoot as much now as I did when I was younger (I'll be fifty next year) I was a very active shooter in several disciplines. I still win the occasional IDPA match and am an certified Instructor for both LE and civilians. I have owned 40s in the past but just didn't find a need for them. I tried several guns besides the USP that detonated in my hand but the knowledge I was faster with the 9mm always drew me back to it.
 
Absintheur said:
There is a solid reason competition shooters like the 9 for speed competitions, they can run the course of fire faster.
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Competitors shoot 9mm because they are shooting against other 9 mms. Courses of fire are won by accuracy and speed of movement. Split-times between the two are minimally different, if at all.

As a side note...the 38 Super+P will out perform the 40S&W in energy delivered to target and in penetration. It will also work in the 9mm platform.
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It will not work on a 9mm platform. To clarify, when I say "9mm platform" I mean the grip size, front to back. The 38 Super or .45 acp will not fit a 9mm size grip, front to back.

I do have proper training and know proper technique and I am faster with a 9 than I am with the 40 and faster with a 40 than I am with a 45. I was faster with the 9mm always drew me back to it.
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Faster how, exactly ?

On a full size IDPA/IPSC target at 7yds or so, my splits are virtually identical between the 9mm/.40/.45, hovering in the .15 range.

How different are your splits ?

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Curious Question , what is the mystique of owning/using a HK USP/P30/P2000 etc?.. I have read other forums about how awesome they are.. but Everyone here mentions their DA long trigger pull, long reset, poor corrosive protection, ....Are HKs really worth the money?.. they seem awfully expensive.

A P2000 Compared to a Glock19 or XD9 .. the G19 or XD9 seem like more bang for the buck.
 
Is there anything good about owning an HK? People rave about their fit&Finish, accuracy, superiority.. just wondering how many actually love them. I heard their Cust service is horrible.
 
They are well made. They are accurate.

But the shortcomings you mentioned far outweigh those factors, at least to me.

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Stavrou0 said:
Is there anything good about owning an HK? People rave about their fit&Finish, accuracy, superiority.. just wondering how many actually love them. I heard their Cust service is horrible.
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IMO, "fit and finish" is only important if you intend to "wow" the bad guy with how purdy your piece is.

"Function over form" is how I see it.
 
My Kimber Bud, just switched to Glock. It was just a matter of time! But, hey, they ain't for everyone.
Also, H&K is in the Top Three.
 
Stavrou0 said:
Are there any other handguns with the durability of a Glock and short trigger reset and more natural grip.
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You just described a 1911. They're a bit more expensive than Glocks though, so keep that in mind if cost is a consideration.
 
Top Three---Glock, H&K and Sig. When I was researching my next pistol, I had a H&K P9s 9mm, every LEO and MP, recommended Glock pistols. Except two. They leaned towards H&K. I traded my P9s for a Glock 17.
 
David E said:
On a full size IDPA/IPSC target at 7yds or so, my splits are virtually identical between the 9mm/.40/.45, hovering in the .15 range.

How different are your splits ?

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I would say I am about 10% faster with a 9mm than I am with a 40, probably closer to 25% faster shooting unsupported strong hand. I have talked with several trainers including Massad Ayoob, Farnham, and other lesser known civilian and LE instructors and the general consensus has always been the 9mm is faster to get back on target for follow-up shots, even more so if firing one handed. I really haven't checked split times but I can start in the surrender position with gun holstered and clear a rack of 6 8" plates at ten yards in under three seconds and can run an El Presidente drill in under 7 seconds on a good day with a revolver.

As for H&Ks, the USP was designed first and foremost as a military sidearm, size wasn't an issue like it is in a gun for CCW. Even the "compact USPs are big. It was made to run under any and all conditions and does. The other two are well made firearms as well. Yes they have the standard DA first shot instead of the much shorter Glock safe action type trigger pull. This was done because it is what police departments asked for, a firearm that would be as AD proof as possible. Are they worth the money? If you want one they are, if not then it doesn't matter. After all is a Caddy Escalade really "worth" more than a Tahoe?

Finish might not be important to function but fit certainly is. If the slide/frame fit on a semi-auto is not correct you will have a very nice single shot pistol.
 
imho with modern high performance ammo(ie speer gold dot, remington golden sabre, w-w ranger) all the service rounds are pretty close as far as performance goes, i dont feel handicapped by a 9MM at all, as long as ya can use/find good ammo.

if i was stuck with ball i would go w/a .45ACP over anything else i can think of.

but imho 9MM, .357SIG, .40, .45ACP, all are good and all will do the job at hand.

as far as steyr i have shot the 9MM version and while it had funky sights (trapazoidal??) the function and accuracy was fine, i dont like them as well as glocks or SA though, IIRC they are a little bit cheaper.
 
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