God Is In The Magic Mushrooms

Ok, ok, I did a lot of LSD and mushrooms in the 1960s. Had some "transcendental" experiences. Some were VERY weird. Some could have been dangerous if I let my mind go down a screwy path. Bad trip.

Was making love with my wife at the time, and she seemed to turn into a skeleton. Startled me, but I thought, "I always liked skinny women...."

I sure learned to go with the flow!

One of the very big worries was about the purity of the LSD. Since it was very illegal, there was no quality control. Could you be getting "bad acid?" Could there be some bad chemical introduced by some nut who made it? Could you be getting a serious overdose? Sure. Now add those fears into the "heavy trip" that accompanied the experience. Should you go to a hospital or ride it out?

Metaphysics tells us that there is a subtle plane that intersects with our physical level -- the Astral. That this is the place where thoughts are real. There was some evidence by these "teachers" that LSD opened users up to this plane. People who are otherwise have their heads in a good place can go there in meditation without serious consequences. But meditation is a serious discipline and takes time, a guide and work.

LSD and other hallucinogens rip open that door with a sledge hammer (like someone posted earlier) and can easily cause bad trips.

There are possibly chemical changes also. We heard, in the 1960s, that you lost a number of brain cells each time you tripped.


I remember Richard Alpert, disciple of Timothy Leary, aka Ram Dass (Servant of God in Hindi) going to India to see a Guru. He gave some LSD to the guru (bringer of light, Hindi). The guru said, "Interesting. Not as good as meditation, but it did cure my headache!"

Alpert had one complaint about LSD -- that he could not stay high on it. He said that he learned meditation in India and could then stay in a mystical place as long as he liked.


Carlos Castaneda’s Don Juan used hallucinogens on Castaneda. He told Carlos in the later books that he only did this because Carlos was "stupid and dense," so this was how he got through to Castaneda. BUT that he, Don Juan, was ALWAYS there as his guide.

Back in the 1960s, I had a friend who made a batch of his own version of some kind of hallucinogen. He was a brilliant research chemist. It was an interesting short term high. One day I visited him and asked him how his research was going? He was fond of “doing some” and “improving” the formula.

He got very nervous and paranoid. Told me to never mention it again.

Months later he told me his story. He was tripping on this stuff when God appeared to him. God said, “JOE, WHAT DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING HERE?” (God speaks in capital letter).

Joe said, “Just trying to make a few bucks and turn some people on/”

“BUT, JOE, WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS NOT RIGHT, IS IT?”

Joe (not a Godly guy wanted to argue) “It is not as bad as heroin or cocaine…..”

“NOT AS BAD DOES NOT MAKE IT RIGHT, JOE”

Joe, “Well, you being God and me being me, this argument is kind of pointless…”

“WELL, JOE, I DON’T LIKE IT AND HERE ARE MY TERMS: BURN THE FORMULA, DUMP THE STUFF AND IF IT EVER HITS THE LIGHT OF DAY AND YOU ARE IN ANY WAY CONNECTED WITH IT I WILL PARALYZE YOU FOR ETERNITY AND TAKE AWAY YOUR SOUL!”

HE gave Joe a short taste of what this would be like. I asked Joe how he knew this was God and he said that during the experience he was certain. Now even though he was not real sure, he was taking no chances that it MIGHT have been God.

In closing, let me stress that I would NEVER do these drugs again! Illegal and dangerous – all the reasons why I gave it up in the 1960s.

This world is a beautiful place in its own right. I don't need that crap.

And besides, God may not like it :( :confused: I sort of joke here, but 40 years later, Joe is TOTALLY convinced and he still is not a Godly person!
 
Spectre said:
Our prisons are packed with those sent there on drug-related offenses, while genuine bad guys- those who deliberately hurt other people by way or robbery, rape, or other violent crimes- are too often set free due to lack of prison space.

Recreational drugs don't "make" people hurt themselves or other people. Some people use illegal drugs in that way. It's the people. It's not the drugs.
As I said, some people can get trapped in anything, and they'll keep looking until they find a trap.
John
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Much of what you say I agree with in principle....George Washington and Thomas Jefferson never envisioned that a large segment of the population would get so hung up on substance abuse that assaults, robberies, burglaries, and prostitution (among other crimes) would become so prevalent. The American public still sees a definite cause effect relationship between drug use and a wide variety of criminal behavior. Perhaps there are some poor non-violent users doing time in local or county jails for smoking pot...that was never my venue. I kid you not, in over 28 years of arresting drug dealers, virtually all of them had loaded weapons either on their persons or within easy reach, and I am not talking about some piece of snit saturday night special. I am certain that more than half of the drug defendats that I had anything to do with used violence and murder as everyday management tools. I have been shot (Thanks for the vest you taxpayers), stabbed and beat in the head with a tire iron, so the image of poor souls trying to "find themselves" just doesn't square with my experience. Your neighbors don't want it next door, or anywhere near their kids. Ask yourself this one question, "Will I go out and buy my own kid his first drugs, or would I rather my son or daughter not use them?" Once again, I will try to sit down and shut up, but you were right, I REALLY did believe in what I was doing.
 
As of this moment, there are 1561 items that are for sale on ebay under the title: "happiness." http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=happiness

I suspect, however, one can't buy it.

Interesting discussion, with some great viewpoints. Valued posters contribute a lot to the information base of the Cantina. Nice to see the complete absence of rancor and malice in the responses.


Makes me happy.:o
 
jurassic, I think what John was maybe trying to say is that you would not have any violent drug dealers or relationships between drug use and crime if it would be legal (and thus also cheaper, cleaner, ...) to get.

If drugs would be legal, and maybe have taxes on them, you'd put the whole drug industry out of business over night.

Keno
 
richardallen said:
jurassic, I think what John was maybe trying to say is that you would not have any violent drug dealers or relationships between drug use and crime if it would be legal (and thus also cheaper, cleaner, ...) to get.

If drugs would be legal, and maybe have taxes on them, you'd put the whole drug industry out of business over night.

Keno
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O.K. Keno, I would be absolutely happy with that experiment except for one thing....I've been to the Netherlands and to Britain where they tried the grand legalization experiment...It seems me they have even more kids strung out than we do (per capita)..but I could be wrong. Do we (not just proponents of legalization) want to run that risk? Legalizing alcohol sure made all the problems go away....;)
 
"Make the most of the Indian hemp seed, and sow it everywhere!"
-------- George Washington

Note to the gardener at Mount Vernon, 1794 "The Writings of George Washington" Volume 33, page 270 (Library of Congress) (George Washington, first president of the United States of America, grew cannabis on Mount Vernon, his plantation, for about 30 years. He may have used the Indian hemp to treat his chronic tooth aches.)


Congress should definitely consider decriminalizing possession of marijuana....We should concentrate on prosecuting the rapists and burglars who are a menace to society. -- U.S. Representative Dan Quayle, March 1977


Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself. Therefore, I support legislation amending Federal law to eliminate all Federal criminal penalties for the possession of up to one ounce of marijuana. -- President Jimmy Carter, Message to Congress, Aug. 2, 1977


The greatest service that can be rendered to any country is to add a useful plant to its culture. -- Thomas Jefferson
 
Actually criminalizing alcohol created far more problems, some that still impact us today...
 
jurassicnarc44 said:
O.K. Keno, I would be absolutely happy with that experiment except for one thing....I've been to the Netherlands and to Britain where they tried the grand legalization experiment...It seems me they have even more kids strung out than we do (per capita)..but I could be wrong. Do we (not just proponents of legalization) want to run that risk? Legalizing alcohol sure made all the problems go away....;)
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Well I dont know either. I wasn't aware Britain legalized pot as well. I'm not sure it's a big problem in the Netherlands, I am living pretty close to them.

Prohibiting alcohol wasnt a much better solution either, was it? :p

I can see where you are coming from. Maybe I would have the same opinion if I was in your business for so long.

It sure is a complicated problem.

Keno
 
The only mind altering chemical I support is caffine...it legally helps one stay awake in school.

You know me guys...I usually only post in *issue* threads when I am sort of getting tired of them.
 
jurassicnarc44 said:
...I've been to the Netherlands and to Britain where they tried the grand legalization experiment...{end quote.}

Actualy..We havent had legalised drugs since the 1920s.. you info is incorret on that point. Jurassic.

Neither has Holland, Holland allows limited possesion & partial "blind eye" policys but Organised crime still control the major large scale dealing there. {As you must be aware? }

I live in England & have spent time in the "Dam" in my youth. Both places had a lot of drug casulties.

Spiral
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richardallen said:
Well I dont know either. I wasn't aware Britain legalized pot as well. I'm not sure it's a big problem in the Netherlands, I am living pretty close to them.
Keno
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I wasn't aware we had confined the discussion to marijuana, since we started with mushrooms, and heroin, cocaine, PCP, LSD and others were mentioned. Britain declared an "amnesty" for heroin users, and gave gov't issue heroin to every addict who would show a doctor "pre-existing tracks" and register with the government. Heroin usage ballooned to 4 times what it had been, and the government had to reverse its "enlightened" policy.

In the Netherlands the cops were forced to "selectively enforce" the law against marihuana, (that's right, unfairly decide) to allow people in certain "clubs" to use drugs, while other people were being charged for the same thing, AND THEIR COURTS ACCEPTED IT! The cops there told me that at least they knew where it was, and thought they could control a situation that was getting completely out of hand. The cops privately told me that crimes against property (things like burglary and stolen bicycles ) had gone through the roof. I retired a few years ago, so this information is not fresh.....but I doubt it has gotten much better.
 
Must I come out of 'retirement' to discuss this silliness?

I don't know they've ever finally proved an organic deterioration with the hallucinagens. They were working on proving it. They've been working on proving it for 50 years. Yes, if you have something less than balanced in you, and WE ALL HAVE, the hallucinagens will not leave you alone, and they will hurt. Lasting damage? Possible, but not very probable. Any damage is most likely to be psychological, or something you did while high.

Would I reccomend these drugs? No. I can't. Because I have a conscience, and I don't want any kid to have go through what I went through.

I've 'seen' enough. I grew up with this. It was all around me, I and my peers and friends, tried it all, in all amounts.

>>>>>>>>>>

I was too young to understand this initially, but the real hurt of the hallucinagens was that these 'doorways' are already present. It's like using a sledgehammer. You don't have to do that.

Does anyone here really think the secrets of the universe, or the Great Heart, are only available through such dramatic and reckless means?

>>>>>>>>>>

That said, it is hardly the end of the world if you do such things. People survive all kinds of experiences. But particularly in young people, what a dangerous road. Though it does not lead neccesarily to addiction to other drugs, you've entered a threshold. And the real danger of altering agents is not they themselves, though they can be, it is the time spent.

Time spent when I was young getting high took away chances later on.
Time spent not learning life.

Thus pot is not terrible in itself, it is the lifestyle, the life devoted to seeking and ingesting any chemical.

Humans have failings, and addiction is one of our top handicaps. It never goes away. I wish like hell I'd never 'found' any of it.

I know all the rationalizations. I even think many of these chemicals should be legal. You see, I favor honesty. Society needs to have rewards greater than being high. And people need to have the capability of making value judgements that recognize that- and go on to be engineers, doctors, policemen, cabinent workers, etc.

We all bear our own crosses and handicaps. Be carefull which ones you select.

Most people who have tried these things do not do them anymore, or are dead.

I wish we did live in a world without booze and other drugs, but these things are here, will always be here, cannot be removed, and need to be understood and not mythologized.
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VERY well said Munk.

I too wasted time or spent too much time wasted...whichever works better for you.
Yes, doorways opened but they were, as you so aptly described "sledgehammered" open. And for me they were forced open at a time and in a way that I was not ready for.

As Munk said, these doors can be opened in other ways. Gentler ways that do not simultaneously shut other doors or limit your life opportunities.
The nice thing about discovering your connection to all of creation in natural drug free ways is that you can trust what you discover to be real. How can you say for sure that what you experienced while high was real and not due to the drugs influencing your thoughts....

The only thing of lasting worth that I gained from a bad acid trip was a deep sense of empathy for people with mental illnesses.

I would add that until we stop our obsession with ESCAPISM---the desire to be somewhere else, with someone else, doing anything else, living somewhere else, watching a biggier tv, driving a better car, thinking "better" thoughts, etc....in short: not being satisfied with being RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW, DOING THIS, until we do that we will continue to use drugs,alchohol, religion, sex, TV, Twinkies, and a myriad of other substitutes for the present moment.
 
You know, it's not the escape that is bad. It's the overwhelming desire to leave... what? The status quo. The way things are. A healthy society has intrinsic rewards for participation. There's nothing wrong with a night of popcorn and grade b SF movies, but next morning in the work place we must have meaning.

I submit there is intrinsic meaning in all, or much of what we do- yeah, I know, laugh your heads off....But it is underscored, devalued, sneered at, ignored, belittled, you name it. We mock ourselves. Laughter is healthy. But bitterness and nothingness is not.

We have the right to assert value judgements. Not as gods, but as beings in a position where not to assert them is destructive.
Too much in the international culture today is 'relative', and any Western emphasis is frowned upon. That kind of self hate is destructive. It is overcompensating for real or imagined failures.

It is like the war on Terror- does anyone really believe there is a single 'right "I told you so" way to handle it? Same with drugs. WE don't want destruction, we don't know exactly what to do. We don't want to encourage use, don't want to fill jails with addicts neither.



munk
 
We have the right to assert value judgements. Not as gods, but as beings in a position where not to assert them is destructive.
Too much in the international culture today is 'relative', and any Western emphasis is frowned upon. That kind of self hate is destructive. It is overcompensating for real or imagined failures.
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True. The pendulum has swung too far over to one side again. To deny that anything western could possibly have merit is to miss alot of good that we do have to offer. I found it interesting that this author suggested that Dick Cheney could use some enlightenment from mushrooms, yet he failed to offer some to the Democrats as well. Lets face it folks: we could all use a dose of enlightenment in this world--none of us is above the fray.

You know, it's not the escape that is bad. It's the overwhelming desire to leave... what? The status quo. The way things are. A healthy society has intrinsic rewards for participation. There's nothing wrong with a night of popcorn and grade b SF movies, but next morning in the work place we must have meaning.
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Agreed. That is what I was trying to get at. That the nagging urge to get away from ourselves is very often at our own expense. Many people are filled with terror at the idea of being alone and quiet for 1 hour. That is interesting to me.
 
munk said:
I submit there is intrinsic meaning in all, or much of what we do- yeah, I know, laugh your heads off....But it is underscored, devalued, sneered at, ignored, belittled, you name it. We mock ourselves. Laughter is healthy. But bitterness and nothingness is not.

We have the right to assert value judgements. Not as gods, but as beings in a position where not to assert them is destructive.


Same with drugs. WE don't want destruction, we don't know exactly what to do. We don't want to encourage use, don't want to fill jails with addicts neither.
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Brother Munk, I believe you have hit it precisely on the head. We have been given a life to live that, if one stops long enough to truely look around and appreciate, has much to be thankful for. Yes we struggle, but bacteria, protists, plants and all other organisms also struggle....it's the very essence of living. Many would like to step aside from the fray and escape for awhile; appreciation of music and art, meditation, yes even worship...allow us to recharge our spiritual batteries in healthy ways. Some would escape chemically, but are rarely revitalized, and so not satisfied. Inability to cope with reality leads one to attempt to escape again and again. Some find they can do this without lasting harm, others become dependent to their detriment. When your brother is hurting, most of us would reach out a helping hand.

There are those, however, who see dependence on drugs as a means to gain wealth and power at the expense of their fellow man. You said that we have the right to assert value judgements; I would assert we have the concomitant responsibility to impose sanctions upon those who take advantage of the weaknesses of others, and who would use violence to accomplish their goals. Drug enforcement has a legitimate role.

I believe that the key to coping, and a satisfying life is to be "other centered" instead of self centered. The me,me,me,I,I,I of being self centered leads to never being satisfied; we always want more. Focusing on the needs of others is intrinsically more satisfying. I suggest you adopt an "attitude of gratitude" to the Creator, regardless of your religion, for what you have, rather than focusing on what you don't have. My heart may be damaged from heart attacks, but it still has the capacity for love. I may have macular degeneration, but I can still see happiness in the eyes of others.
 
jurassicnarc44 said:
...I believe that the key to coping, and a satisfying life is to be "other centered" instead of self centered. The me,me,me,I,I,I of being self centered leads to never being satisfied; we always want more. Focusing on the needs of others is intrinsically more satisfying. I suggest you adopt an "attitude of gratitude" to the Creator, regardless of your religion, for what you have, rather than focusing on what you don't have. My heart may be damaged from heart attacks, but it still has the capacity for love. I may have macular degeneration, but I can still see happiness in the eyes of others.
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Much wisdom here.
 
jurassic,

My chief problem with the prosecution of the "War on Drugs" is not, per se, any resultant lack of recreational/mystical/healing/(name your attribute here) substance. Rather, my hearfelt fear is that this is just another way- and a major one, at that- to limit freedom, to encroach, to steal little bits, and sometimes, whole chunks of what makes it so great to be an American.

Ultimately, any potential hazard from "unrestricted" (could never be actually no restrictions- police could still prosecute parents who left drugs in kids' reach for reckless endangerment, for instance) access to drugs is far more attractive than a rampant runaway federal government that rides over the rights of its citizens in the name of safety.

I have watched my rights be eroded in the name of this "War on", and now, I see more of them vanishing in another "War on". Yes, I'm willing to fight a real terrorist enemy, but I am not at all willing to see my freedoms gutted "for the children", or "public safety", or any other nonsensical attribution.

Dammit.

It must stop, but we have to be involved. We must put our prejudices aside, in light of the bigger picture. We must be brave enough to protect our freedoms while we still have any left to protect, and can do so peacefully, with tact and pen instead of with violence and bloodshed.

John
 
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