Going from folders to fixed; locking to slipjoints

Status
Not open for further replies.
shinyedges said:
Unfortunately fools don't understand or grasp the concept that ANY and EVERY thing can be used as weapons.

Another thing they are completely ignorant of is criminals don't give a damn what the law says. Only law abiding citizens follow the law. Rocket science, I know.
Click to expand...

It's pretty sad isnt it.
 
pinnah said:
John and I both just suspicious of you. There's just no need for a fixed blade in Starbucks is there?
Click to expand...

Um, I live in Europe, and actually have pulled out my own knife in a restaurant on more than one occasion—either because the knife they gave me wasn't sharp enough, or they didn't give me a sharpened knife in the first place. My fixed-blade neck knife is definitely a lot more discreet (sorry, had to) than a titanium flipper going thwick. It's not like the plastic Starbucks knife folds, either.
 
Tachead7075 said:
Keep in mind too that a lot of places have separate concealed weapons laws. So even if it is legal to conceal a folder or any other knife, as soon as it is considered a weapon, you will be charged with concealing a weapon. So, if an over zealous LEO decides he doesnt like you and deems your pocket knife a weapon you are in big trouble and will have to prove in court it isnt a weapon. So, that's one advantage to at least somewhat openly carry your EDC tool whether it is a fixed blade or a folder. That's why I said earlier that concealing your EDC just to make another random person feel more comfortable might not always be in your best interests.
Click to expand...

You edited your post. You originally said (correctly) that if you use your knife as a weapon, you could be charged under a concealed weapon law.

Your updated post is also true but begs the question of why and how an officer would find a pocket knife on you or not take a liking to you.

I'm well into my 50s and somehow have gotten through never even thinking about using a knife as a weapon. Nor have I ever had a cop deal with outside of a routine speeding ticket. Never been arrested. Never been patted down.

Maybe we just have very different life experiences. Maybe there's a connection between your desire to exercise your knife carrying rights no matter how it makes people feel and your concerns about the possibility of getting crosswise with a cop and Bing charged with carrying a weapon.
 
Every jurisdiction can have its own laws. In New York City, you must carry concealed. If a pocket clip is visible, the police can investigate. If they find even the most inoffensive knife attached, you can be in trouble.
 
I read somewhere NYC had 60,000? knife prosecutions over the last decade... Basically ANYTHING that could be opened with one hand if I remember correctly.

I find that unbelievable, I have never lived in a place that draconian.
Esav Benyamin said:
Every jurisdiction can have its own laws. In New York City, you must carry concealed. If a pocket clip is visible, the police can investigate. If they find even the most inoffensive knife attached, you can be in trouble.
Click to expand...
 
shinyedges said:
Unfortunately fools don't understand or grasp the concept that ANY and EVERY thing can be used as weapons.
Click to expand...

The FBI crime statistics through 2014 are readily available online.

If you look at them, you will see that knives are the second most commonly used weapons in murders and other violent crimes; second only to handguns. Knives are 5 times more likely to be used than either rifles or shoguns and are used twice as often as all blunt objects (bats, clubs, hammers) combined. So, statistically speaking, people have the right to be wary of knives. They are, in fact, used as weapons more frequently than any other object other than a handgun.

EDITED TO ADD: Note, I'm not anti-knife. I carry one every where it is legal and many places that it isn't. But I don't delude myself or others by insisting that a knife is not a weapon. Of course it is. And I use this awareness to modulate when and how I use my knife around others. Like I said in my first post, I've found that traditional folders produce less social friction, which in turn, allows me to enjoy using my knife in a lot more circumstances.


As far as Draconian laws, a terrorist bombing tends to put people on edge. DHS "If you see something; say something" signs are common in Boston leading up to the marathon. I wouldn't walk in Boston with a pocket clip showing, much less with a fixed blade.

Abnormal stands out. EDCing a fixed blade is way abnormal here. Why push it? Other than self-defense (use as a weapon), what does a fixed blade with a 3" blade offer that a similarly sized slip joint doesn't?
 
Last edited:
I get it you're scared of a lot of things. Scared of a guy lawfully carrying a fixed blade.

A vehicle (yea a car) can plow through a crowd of people and kill and injure far more people in one instant than a knife. Do you duck and cover every time a car drives by?

Your fear of the law abiding citizen attacking you with their knife is irrational and paranoid. Simple put, the guy who will attempt to attack you with a knife won't care about the law and you probably won't even know he has one.

I'm not sure why I even replied to you as the level of ignorance you have shown yourself to have is beyond reasoning with. As noted others simply ignore your fear mongering.

I was around Muslims for a year over seas many of whom carry guns and knives and was never stabbed. WOW right?

Shear luck I guess. Stopping every act that makes some one uneasy is impossible. I hear England is doing well, you might be interested in moving there as their citizens don't have the rights ours do. Maybe you'll be safer.:)
pinnah said:
The FBI crime statistics through 2014 are readily available online.

If you look at them, you will see that knives are the second most commonly used weapons in murders and other violent crimes; second only to handguns. Knives are 5 times more likely to be used than either rifles or shoguns and are used twice as often as all blunt objects (bats, clubs, hammers) combined. So, statistically speaking, people have the right to be wary of knives. They are, in fact, used as weapons more frequently than any other object other than a handgun.

EDITED TO ADD: Note, I'm not anti-knife. I carry one every where it is legal and many places that it isn't. But I don't delude myself or others by insisting that a knife is not a weapon. Of course it is. And I use this awareness to modulate when and how I use my knife around others. Like I said in my first post, I've found that traditional folders produce less social friction, which in turn, allows me to enjoy using my knife in a lot more circumstances.


As far as Draconian laws, a terrorist bombing tends to put people on edge. DHS "If you see something; say something" signs are common in Boston leading up to the marathon. I wouldn't walk in Boston with a pocket clip showing, much less with a fixed blade.

Abnormal stands out. EDCing a fixed blade is way abnormal here. Why push it? Other than self-defense (use as a weapon), what does a fixed blade with a 3" blade offer that a similarly sized slip joint doesn't?
Click to expand...
 
shinyedges said:
I get it you're scared of a lot of things. Scared of a guy lawfully carrying a fixed blade.

A vehicle (yea a car) can plow through a crowd of people and kill and injure far more people in one instant than a knife. Do you duck and cover every time a car drives by?

Your fear of the law abiding citizen attacking you with their knife is irrational and paranoid. Simple put, the guy who will attempt to attack you with a knife won't care about the law and you probably won't even know he has one.

I'm not sure why I even replied to you as the level of ignorance you have shown yourself to have is beyond reasoning with. As noted others simply ignore your fear mongering.

I was around Muslims for a year over seas many of whom carry guns and knives and was never stabbed. WOW right?

Shear luck I guess. Stopping every act that makes some one uneasy is impossible. I hear England is doing well, you might be interested in moving there as their citizens don't have the rights ours do. Maybe you'll be safer.:)
Click to expand...

Knives are weapons. Some knives will definitely be perceived as weapons more than others. As a general rule a similar fixed blade is gonna worry people a crapload more than a folder in the same size/style. Is any of this really up for debate?

Seriously, follow your local laws and carry what you want, but yes, public perception of you WILL be affected by that. I'm sure as hell gonna sideeye anyone wandering around with a giant bowie on their belt in Wally World and I'm an enthusiast. Now, if it's all legal and it doesn't bother you, that's fine. Do what you want. Personally? My income is at least somewhat dependent on people NOT being nervous around me, so I'm not gonna haul around a machete because I legally can. My hobby and the utility a knife offers falls far, far behind the ability to pay rent.
 
pinnah said:
You edited your post. You originally said (correctly) that if you use your knife as a weapon, you could be charged under a concealed weapon law.

Your updated post is also true but begs the question of why and how an officer would find a pocket knife on you or not take a liking to you.

I'm well into my 50s and somehow have gotten through never even thinking about using a knife as a weapon. Nor have I ever had a cop deal with outside of a routine speeding ticket. Never been arrested. Never been patted down.

Maybe we just have very different life experiences. Maybe there's a connection between your desire to exercise your knife carrying rights no matter how it makes people feel and your concerns about the possibility of getting crosswise with a cop and Bing charged with carrying a weapon.
Click to expand...

No I didnt ever say that and/or edit it out. You are just making stuff up now, please stop. I dont want to reply to your posts as it is not worth my time and I dont appreciate you making stuff up about mine.
 
RX-79G said:
I don't see what you're reading that suggest that someone carrying a fixed blade is going to use it butter bagels in a restaurant. I wouldn't get cream cheese in my Sodbuster, either. The plastic ones are hygienic and free.

The John Q. stuff is ridiculous. I have a "fixed blade" that has a 3/4" blade and is illegal here in Seattle to carry. But a big tactical folder is perfectly fine. Laws do not always represent reality.

maxresdefault.jpg
Click to expand...

Lol oh Seattle. Hey have you ever been to Eastern or Northern Washington? Maybe you could attest to how non-vexed most people here are at seeing a fixed blade. It's not like we're a bunch of Cowboys either, it's just we don't seem to have that annoying jerk John Q. Public who is concerned about a Buck knife on someone's belt. Maybe that's because in Washington people can open carry pistols wherever they want, and a lot do. So I don't think we have this John Q Public guy flooding his boots at the sign of a weapon like over there in New England. Oh that's not a dig at NE, but pinnah seems to think there's no place except the great rural expanses where the Cowboys roam where people are unphased by the sight of fixed blades.

I carried an Izula and a SAK for two years straight, pretty much every folder I've had has a longer blade than the Izula (including the SAK), and no not tactical folders either. The only time anyone has ever made a fuss was 3 years ago after that Aurora shooting. I went to a pizza shop and forgot I'd clipped the thing to my shirt, and the pizza guy said something like "You might not want to wear that on your shirt after the whole Aurora thing." BIG deal, he didnt throw up his hands up in surrender or call the cops in fear and none of the patrons even seemed to notice, and yeah I was paying attention because I did a look around like "Where's the fire?" I just asked him if he wanted me to leave and he said "I just don't think it's a good idea" and I agreed with the pizza guy's advice to take it off my shirt where I had absent mindedly clipped it on to anyway. Oh and why did I have it clipped on my shirt? It was 100 degrees out and my only set of shorts didn't have pockets, and I was breaking down moving boxes so thought that would be an easy solution and forgot all about it. Since I had no "tactical" folders none of them had clips I could do the same with.

I do find folders more convenient a lot of the times though. Plus the concealment laws are annoying here. It's just simpler to carry a folder to not run afoul of the laws, especially since there's different municipal codes in my state too. However in actual use, I like fixed blades because they're easier to clean up and I just enjoy working with a single piece more, especially when hard cutting tasks are needed. If I need to cut something where I am applying significant force my knife is just one less thing I want to be able to move and shift around. I know people here like to brag about how they just pay attention to what they're cutting, but I don't always have the presence of mind and would rather not have to think it through. It's just one less thing to worry about.

Here is a good example... Changing the serpentine belt on my car. I had everything I needed parts wise, went to loosen the tension idler and my socket wrench couldn't clear the radiator fan housing. It only needed a quart of an inch, so I grabbed the Izula and began carving out a notch big enough to let the wrench slip by. With all the weird angles I would have needed to be extra cautious about it if using a slip joint, and I already had enough to worry about just not dropping the knife with all the awkward angles I was contorting too. When the JOB you're doing is complicated enough, having a simpler tool really cuts down on the Murphy's law events.

My memory isn't good enough to think of any more examples, but typically I tried to cut everything with a SAK first and if I felt like it was kind of "shaky" with how much force I needed to cut, I would go for the Izula instead. Heavy zip ties usually see that happening the most, but any thick and heavy material really.

I got a RAT 1 recently because I just got kind of tired mucking around with two knives where one could probably cover the tasks for both. Not sure yet how it will handle the heavy tasks, but between the SAK and Izula it seems like a happy middle ground. Plus one-hand opening and closing is so much more convenient than putting the knife back in the sheath, and a lot safer than leaving it laying around.

Oh and as far as concealment goes, a pocket knife or folder designed to be clipped on/into the pocket is the only carry option I feel can't be contorted as concealed. I have had people say cops will hassle me for carrying my Izula horizontal on my belt because my gut hangs over it a little. Then if I pocketed it, there's not really anything in the law's language that would keep it from being interperted as a concealed knife. However I asked the attorney general for my state, and they said as long as you're carrying the knife the way it was designed to be carried on wouldn't be an issue: Carrying a belt knife in my pocket doesn't fit that bill to me. Then last, neck carry, I have spoke to cops who said they would arrest anyone carrying a neck knife under their shirt, and to me having a piece of metal hanging around my neck waiting to smash into drinking glasses and cabinet displays like a small wrecking ball. Oh and I know some people will say "Well I have never had a problem with cops" but wait until you have and then let's see how you feel about giving them any reason to throw your ass in jail. Shit happens, having a concealed weapon on you is just a possible 3-5 if something goes terribly wrong in your day. I just don't like to pretend I am as infallible as most do.
 
I get that its unusual to see a fixed blade being carried, I normally carry a ratmandu or winkler belt knife openly. Roughly 10.5 inches overall including sheath. In my area I've never had an issue, my point is fearing the law abiding citizen who's knife you can see doesn't mean you are in more danger... does it? Criminals who would do you harm don't usually take the time to look up and know the law and follow it to the tee like the gentlemen carrying the fixed blade. Luckily we live in the good old USA and have rights that supersede the overly fearful.

As I mentioned earlier ANYTHING can be used a weapon, so yea a knife can be used as a weapon but so can a Honda civic or prius. Police can and will shoot someone if they attempt to use a vehicle as a weapon much in the same manner they shoot someone using a knife as weapon. Do people run and hide from a Honda civic?

And yea, a car is multi purpose just like a knife, it takes you where you want to go and can be used as a weapon. A knife is used to cut things as a tool and can be used a weapon.

People use cars every day without running people over and people use knives every single day without stabbing someone. And yet both are used to hurt people as well. But I don't see the fear mongering over cars..
Insipid Moniker said:
Knives are weapons. Some knives will definitely be perceived as weapons more than others. As a general rule a similar fixed blade is gonna worry people a crapload more than a folder in the same size/style. Is any of this really up for debate?

Seriously, follow your local laws and carry what you want, but yes, public perception of you WILL be affected by that. I'm sure as hell gonna sideeye anyone wandering around with a giant bowie on their belt in Wally World and I'm an enthusiast. Now, if it's all legal and it doesn't bother you, that's fine. Do what you want. Personally? My income is at least somewhat dependent on people NOT being nervous around me, so I'm not gonna haul around a machete because I legally can. My hobby and the utility a knife offers falls far, far behind the ability to pay rent.
Click to expand...
 
And another thing, once people see me carrying a fixed blade regularly something amazing happens, it is like magic... they become used to it :eek:
 
Insipid Moniker said:
Knives are weapons. Some knives will definitely be perceived as weapons more than others. As a general rule a similar fixed blade is gonna worry people a crapload more than a folder in the same size/style. Is any of this really up for debate?

Seriously, follow your local laws and carry what you want, but yes, public perception of you WILL be affected by that. I'm sure as hell gonna sideeye anyone wandering around with a giant bowie on their belt in Wally World and I'm an enthusiast. Now, if it's all legal and it doesn't bother you, that's fine. Do what you want. Personally? My income is at least somewhat dependent on people NOT being nervous around me, so I'm not gonna haul around a machete because I legally can. My hobby and the utility a knife offers falls far, far behind the ability to pay rent.
Click to expand...

A knife can be a tool or a weapon, It is not a weapon by default. It is the intent to harm others with it that makes it a weapon. Knives, just like almost all other things are inanimate objects. It is the owner/user that determines how they will be used.

I disagree that a fixed blade is going to worry people more then a folder. It depends more on the design imo.

Which looks more scary to you?

This...
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31f4EPmCV8L.jpg

Or this...
http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0878/2784/products/MK06T-02ANbb_large.jpg?v=1447254757

This...
http://www.crkt.com/crkt/content/images_inv/c/g/82/2860_xlarge_82.jpg

Or this...
http://gearmoose.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/Benchmade-BKC-Bedlam-Axis-Folding-Knife.jpg

This...
https://static.boker.de/us/images/zoom/02ba319h.jpg

Or this...
http://www.qinggear.com/product_pic/X34342.jpg
 
Last edited:
Tachead7075 said:
A knife can be a tool or a weapon, It is not a weapon by default. It is the intent to harm others with it that makes it a weapon. Knives, just like almost all other things are inanimate objects. It is the owner/user that determines how they will be used.

I disagree that a fixed blade is going to worry people more then a folder. It depends more on the design imo.

Which looks more scary to you?]
Click to expand...

I notice that you conveniently ignored the part where I specified a folder of the same size and style. Please avoid erecting strawmen, as they catch fire rather easily.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I notice that you conveniently ignored the part where I specified a folder of the same size and style. Please avoid erecting strawmen, as they catch fire rather easily.
Click to expand...

I didnt ignore it. Notice I didnt quote that part of your thread. I was just showing that in a general sense design is more what scares people then whether it is a folder or a fixed blade imo. Not like their is a study, that I know of, to confirm our assumptions anyway.
 
Last edited:
Tachead7075 said:
I didnt ignore it. Notice I didnt quote that part of your thread. I was just showing that in a general sense design is more what scares people then whether it is a folder or a fixed blade imo. Not like their is a study, that I know of, to confirm our assumptions anyway.
Click to expand...

You DID quote it, you just chose not to bold it. Making your counter argument, as I pointed out, a strawman.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
You DID quote it, you just chose not to bold it. Making your counter argument, as I pointed out, a strawman.
Click to expand...

The second paragraph was directed at the whole thread not just you. That's why I didnt bold it. I said quote but meant bold. Stop being a jerk man, its uncalled for. I have no bone to pick with you. What is your problem?
 
Tachead7075 said:
The second paragraph was directed at the whole thread not just you. That's why I didnt bold it. I said quote but meant bold. Stop being a jerk man, its uncalled for. I have no bone to pick with you. What is your problem?
Click to expand...

I'm using proper argumentation and pointing out the flaws in your argument. If you're quoting me as an example I'm absolutely going to point out that you've insufficiently responded to the argument I've made. It's nothing personal, this is how debate works. If you feel the need to bring name calling into it I would suggest a brief break from the thread or using the ignore feature, but I'm not going to concede a point because it annoys you that I don't.
 
Insipid Moniker said:
I'm using proper argumentation and pointing out the flaws in your argument. If you're quoting me as an example I'm absolutely going to point out that you've insufficiently responded to the argument I've made. It's nothing personal, this is how debate works. If you feel the need to bring name calling into it I would suggest a brief break from the thread or using the ignore feature, but I'm not going to concede a point because it annoys you that I don't.
Click to expand...

I was quoting you for the area I bolded. That is why I bolded it. You are not the first person in this thread to say that fixed blades are viewed as more scary even if you did add the same size/style. I dont expect you to concede anything. Again, the second paragraph was directed at the whole thread not just you. I think you may need a break from forums in general to make some friends and learn to be a little more friendly and tactful with your conversational skills.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top