Going gun shopping

No chiger, the M14, or M1A is the descendent of the Garand. It is not the same rifle at all. They both have action bars, is about it, and the stock is similar. The US military really liked the O3 stock design, they kept using it until the AR came by.
The confusion must be because the Garand is called the M1.

Course, the little carbine is called the M1 Carbine!
I sold my carbine. I'll miss it, but even a Ruger mini 14 can outperform it at less money in both arm and ammo.

Is a large battle rifle ideal for home defense? No. But it will do the job. As long as one does a little research and understands ammunition purposes. The arms you and I like- the handguns- can be overpenetrative as well, right?

I was real glad I had the SKS when the riots were going on in LA.

munk
 
FallingKnife: "Consider where you're going to shoot it. Some ranges are restricted to pistol calibers."

If you can't practise, you are not prepared, and this is an excellent point.


munk
 
The most effective home defense weapons are large caliber, low velocity guns that deliver maximum impact energy
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Respectfully, low weight, high velocity ammunition with expanding bullets is less likely to overpenetrate than heavy, slow thumpers. Munk was right there. Careful ammunition selection will make overpenetration with rifle calibres less likely than with virtually any handgun ammo. This does not, of course, address blast. Fortunately, electronic ear pro is becoming more affordable. :)

FWIW, the Desert Eagle is single-action.

J
 
Munk,

One of my all time saddle guns is Ruger’s little .44 mag carbine which they stopped making for some dumb reason. I love it for the same reason as the .30 carbine. Compact, accurate at short range and can carry ammo for it and my Red Hawk or Super Black Hawk at the same time.

One size fits all is good!

About the Mini 14, it’s funny…in my neck of the woods I can hunt deer (not that I’ve been in the last 5 years) with a .30 carbine or 44/40 Henry, but we can’t shoot deer with the .223 and I dearly love mine. Dang IT!

chiger
 
Spectre,

No need to be respectful, I’m an old guy with a thick skin.;~)

Your right high velocity expendables are less likely to over penetrate, but for the new gun owner, which is where this thread started, to be able to sort through the hundreds of chooses for guns, ammo and functional ease…I just think it's best to keep things simple. You know…KISS. If someone who has never even owned a gun before wakes up in the middle of the night to the sound of broken glass or finds some thug standing over his bed with a knife, easy and simple is probably going to be better.

See…I knew this would open a can-o-worms. That’s why I quoted that portion of his post. Oh well, very interesting discussion anyway.

chiger
 
Chiger's right about the new owner. Except we in HI forum land know the writer some, and know he's studying now. Not your go to the store buy big boom boom kind of guy.

Spectre's post reminded me of something I'd wanted to say earlier- a heavy slug, large post 40 cal diameter at 1300 fps second is way too fast unless you've selected your ammo carefully. My defense big bores run around 900 fps. I shouldn't have used the top speed as a reference.

The SKS, btw, at 2200 fps or 2300 and 120ish grains weight is not what I'd consider a high power round. 30/30 class- but nothing to be trifled with. Which is to say one in the ribs of a bad guy or elk would do neither well.

munk
 
First gun? Most versatile? 12 gauge shotgun. Period. With varying chokes and loads, you can hunt birds of all sizes. With slugs, you can hunt deer. You can bust clays till you're deadeye dick with a shotgun. And it's the best HD gun going.

As far as the KISS principle and handguns go, there's the .357 revolver. Simple to operate and clean. Shoots anything from a regular old .38 up to a +P .357 load.
 
The advice I got (and followed) when I was in your situation:

If you can only have one gun for all purposes- .357 magnum w/4" barrel(I got a Ruger- the Chevy truck of hand guns)

Do it all/first long gun (for Ca.)- Mini-14

next get a 12ga. pump, then you're on to whatever you want.

They will get like knives, you need another and another- I've added a Kahr 9mm (for ccw), a Wilson Combat CQB (hold one & work the slide, pull the trigger and you'll know why- and 8 shots into 1 big hole!), a 12ga. pump and semi-auto, a couple of .22s (rifle & pistol) for cheap practice- and finally (just like you will, I'll bet) an M1A.

This is a functional/defensive order. If you just want to shoot, get the .22s and have fun until you can afford the M1A. Next on my list is a carbine in .357, a bolt action .30-06 and a .22 revolver- see what I mean?

PS. For home defense the .357 or .45 is the way to go (on multiple very good authorities- not my opinion- well, it is now). Firing a shotgun in the house has serious drawbacks and a high powered rifle really shouldn't be used in a residential area unless you are absolutely sure of your backstop.
 
Ok, I've read through the thread, and nobody has said the one thing that is just dying to be said, at least when discussing handguns....





GLOCK!!!

;-)

Andy
 
...anything that floats in my tub next to the Ducky needs to be....left in the tub.

Just kidding. I don't want a Glock, but they set a standard that is still followed, and is not to be ignored.

munk
 
Please tell me you're kidding :eek: ? Sounds like someone taught the next generation how to rationalize bad handling of a firearm :jerkit:. Having a negligent discharge is not some mysterious indicator of gun expertise, quite the opposite.

Dalraidian said:
What Chiger said, yep.

Anyone, usually, who claims to have never had a gun go off "accidently" hasn't handled them enough to be considered an expert (whatever that might mean).

My Uncles taught me that years ago and combined with their story of their Dad's 10 gauge double blasting both barrels through the roof when one of them was sure it wasn't loaded even after checking it a half an hour earlier...yikes.
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Dalraidian said:
A new member humbly chimes in here with a suggestion to consider a lever action rifle
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Good suggestion. I've wanted a lever action Winchester since I was young, what boy didn't? I think that for a first gun though I'll get an SKS, just in case the local solons decide that the SKS belongs on the banned list of firearms here in the great state of California.
 
munk said:
I lived in the LA area during the riots. Does anyone here live in a large urban area, prone to 'civil' disturbance, or even natural disaster? A 'self defense' arm has bigger roles to play in our modern world. If you wanted to stop looters after hurricane Andrew or Katrina, or the LA riots, and you only owned one arm, I would much prefer a SKS to a 9 mill semi auto.
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That's one of the factors I'm considering. I'm not worried solely about burglaries or home invasion robberies. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and this place is earthquake country. If the Big One should strike and cause a natural disaster there is the very real possibility that I will have to deal with looters and other predatory types. Should that happen I would be more comfortable with an SKS than I would be with a .22 or a lever action. Remember that this will be my first gun. I am going to buy more. I fully intend on buying a Remington 870, 1911, and eventually the M1A. The reason that I want to start with a SKS is that I think it gives me more options than I would have were I armed solely with a shotgun, pistol, or lever.
 
My First line of defense is a Les Baer Concept IV 1911 5 in, .45 ACP.
Second is a shotgun we call Shotzilla, an 870 with Cav Arms M-4 collapsing stock conversion, 18 in bbl and 7 rd mag ext., 5 rds in the "sidesaddle".
3rd is an AR-15M4, and that is probably over-kill even for perimeter defense.
If I need more than that, OH CHIT, lol.

DaddyDett
 
Hey Chickenfried, no kidding. Treating any firearm like it's loaded regardless of what you "know'" should be the ultimate rule and if my grandkids deviate from this on the range or in the woods they will hear the riot act from yours truly. Unintentional discharges are going to happen to many and could happen if one shoots long enough.

The story related before in more detail was that one uncle came home from school with a friend and showed off dry firing the double, put it back up on the mantle and went out to the well. His brothers immediately came home and loaded it replacing it to the same. The first returned and "dry fired" a couple of ounces of lead into only the ceiling thank God.

These were West NC mountain boys who hunted for food and guns were like any tool around the home.

My remark of "hasn't handle enough firearms to be an expert" comes from Chuck Hawks or Mossad Ayoob, I can't remember which really.

"Never point a gun at something you don't want to shoot" should be this threads author's first rule to live by.
 
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