Gold Membership

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Nasty said:
Folks, I'm really disappointed to see your reasons for staying or going come down to nothing more than being asked (or told) to post political stuff in the appropriate forum. You may not realize it, but politics cause more trouble than any other single subject. The political forum was set up specifically with rules in place to preclude flame wars, name calling, bigotry, racism and out and out dirty dealing.
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Its not just politics bro. Its passionate posts. Meaty, real debate. Community, and comraderie, and respect. Dissention and forgivness. Keno and I went at it a few times, but I respect him none the less, and I hope, he respects me too. Shadow, HD, BH, and I have disagreed a bunch. I respect them though.

I'm sorry I called you lazy. I know this job is tough. I respect you too.


You guys have really had an effect on me. I'm a better man for knowing you all, and I won't forget that. This place led me back toward what I wanted to be when I was a boy. I've learned skills, and had a lot of fun. I thank you.

I'll be around. I'll be watching for smoke requests.

I'm sorry for the abrasive nature of my opinionated posts, I'll try to control the Cajun within a little better.
 
I have been a moderator on one of the larger gun forums since its creation. The nominal head of the board calls me his brother, and I'm close friends to many of the staff, having traveled across states, in some instances, to meet them.

I am deeply involved with this board: but I stay out of Legal & Political if I can help it. More problems are generated in that one forum than in all other forums on the board combined.

I recently upgraded to a gold membership here. I did this in recognition that BladeForums has provided us a home for many years, and working behind the scenes on other boards, I have an idea of the costs involved.

Now, seeing how divisive political topics can be, I can understand one lone moderator not liking having to ride herd on them.

As I can also understand Cantina members wanting to discuss important topics with a circle of friends, even friends who may disagree, but who will listen with respect and sympathy.

I am not sure how to resolve this challenge. Ultimately, all topics can be reduced to family, survival, and politics, and it's often hard to even keep those three base groups seperate.

Ultimately, we are a family. Politics are how we will survive.

I wish wisdom and peace to our moderator and family.

John
 
Andy said:
Its not just politics bro. Its passionate posts. Meaty, real debate. Community, and comraderie, and respect. Dissention and forgivness. Keno and I went at it a few times, but I respect him none the less, and I hope, he respects me too. Shadow, HD, BH, and I have disagreed a bunch. I respect them though.
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i sure do respect you. Some little email contact now and then is really helpful for understanding.

I too will be checkin in for smoke requests of course. And YDOD :D

Else than that, I think I will explore other places, too.

John said:
I recently upgraded to a gold membership here. I did this in recognition that BladeForums has provided us a home for many years, and working behind the scenes on other boards, I have an idea of the costs involved.
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Agreed. (Too bad being Gold costs more for international customers. I wonder if I will have to add the $150 shipping fee from 1SKS, too?)


Back to the topic: Copy & paste from a recent email exchange:

Keno said:
On a sidenote - when a political thread from the Cantina was moved to W&C, I still remember how someone there commented on how civilized then discussion was - they even wondered where that thread came from...I think that pretty much said a lot [good] about the cantina.
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Blessings for y'all,

Keno
 
psst, Keno....if you ever need anything from this side of the pond without incurring international fees, etc....I'm sure we can arrange something. ;)
(having done this before many times...)
 
I only became a gold member a couple of months back so I could sell a few Khuks, bad time to do that as the rules are harder than I thought and getting harder. I have sold many of them on free forums and a couple here. I thought this is the heart and soul of HI so this is a place that people who love them buy them...but maybe not.

Until this past couple of months my only post have been in HI forums except for a couple in the martial arts threads. Branching out my posting( other than Buck and becasue I also love and collect Bucks) there is hardly anywhere to go without running into someone fighting over something. Theres just too much mocho.

But I can also feel that though its not said, people are a little afraid of what they are going to post....somethings not right about that feeling.
 
Daniel Koster said:
Note: Nasty's job is not to be our friend...but to keep us from each other's throats.
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Dan,

I respectfully disagree one the first part of your statement. I think that Nasty is a great friend here. Yes, his (UNPAID) job is to keep order. A thankless job that nobody else wants. Look at all the mods who have quit! They have their reasons for quitting and I certainly do not blame them.

There is not enough money to get me to be a Mod here.

While I feel I have a certain amount of power in this world, there are things I place outside my ability to influence. Some of these things I call "The Setup."

Let me outline "The Setup" in the Cantina as I see it. First, we are guests in Sparks home. I mean no blame to anyone here, including Sparks or Cougar Allen, but let me explain what I see and how I decided to handle it.

We are guests in a man's home. There are no laws saying he must accept us. No federal regulations. Even with Gold memberships we don't pay enough as individuals to have much influence.

Maybe we think that Sparks makes arbitrary rules, maybe he does. So what? This is his home. He has the right to make whatever rules he wants. This is NOT a democracy. This is not an aristocracy, nor an oligarchy. This is a dictatorship. I mean this, not as a slam, but as a description.

My home is exactly the same. I can make whatever rules I like and enforce them. If I have a guest in my home and they want to talk politics, religion or anything else I don't happen to like, I can throw them out.

I have done this and I believe that most of us have also.

So this is how I see it. And folks, I see Nasty as trying to be a friend to us because he tries very hard not only to moderate between us crazy brawlers, but he also tries very hard to moderate between us and Sparks.

Sparks is the absolute boss. That is the Setup. That is the way it is. I don't know Sparks, but I appreciate that he has given us a place to play.

You may not like his rules, you may think them to be unfair. But it seems to me, and again, I say this without rancor, if you don't like it; if you REALLY don't like it you can go somewhere else. You have that freedom.

But I don't think that any of us, including Nasty have the ability to get Sparks to do something different just because we don't think it is fair or right. Sparks does what he wants, and here in his home, and I think that he has that right. it IS his home.

I began this post with a heading of the Big Hand in The Sky. There was once a country where every hour precisley on the hour and Big Hand came down out of the Sky and slammed into the earth.

The people of the country did not like this; they did not think it was fair; they did not think it was right; they did not think it should happen; they thought of a lot of other ways they would like things to be ---- but they also did not discuss it right where the Big Hand came down.

Get the picture?
 
moderater is a thankless job, its a position of authority & there personality & belifs will play a role in there interpritations of rules & way of inforcing them. How can in not? there human.

And others will kick agaisnt those with the power to make decsions. not many like bieng overruled & controled. Thats the reality of moderators power though.


So be it.

Thats why Bill was so clever, he understood that & let it all slide. People had to saught it out themselves.

Anyone in authority who tells you what you can & cant do will get flack.

Spiral
 
The following words are those of Oliver Wendell Holmes. They are presented merely as food for thought here.

Persecution for the expression of opinions seems to me perfectly logical. If you have no doubt of your premises or your power and want a certain result with all your heart you naturally express your wishes in law and sweep away all opposition. To allow opposition by speech seems to indicate that you think the speech impotent, as when a man says that he has squared the circle, or that you do not care whole heartedly for the result, or that you doubt either your power or your premises. But when men have realized that time has upset many fighting faiths, they may come to believe even more than they believe the very foundations of their own conduct that the ultimate good desired is better reached by free trade in ideas-that the best test of truth is the power of the thought to get itself accepted in the competition of the market, and that truth is the only ground upon which their wishes safely can be carried out. That at any rate is the theory of our Constitution. It is an experiment, as all life is an experiment. Every year if not every day we have to wager our salvation upon some prophecy based upon imperfect knowledge. While that experiment is part of our system I think that we should be eternally vigilant against attempts to check the expression of opinions that we loathe and believe to be fraught with death, unless they so imminently threaten immediate interference with the lawful and pressing purposes of the law that an immediate check is required to save the country.

I like being part of this experiment.

Eric
 
Me too.

I like the bit about the marketplace of ideas.

I used to be less secure. I used to think, without relizing it, that "truth" might need some support, some help.

Now I know better.

It can be frustrating though, if you feel that you are not understood, or that folks won't really engage with what you are saying. That,also, bothers me less and less. It's just the way things are, among people.

Experience has taught that those who desire true communication often are rarer than those who desire to exchange sound bites. Both parties might as well talk in a cave.

I've been there!

The things I believe cannot be defended or enforced by the sword, whatever form that sword may take. They cannot be vanquished by the sword, either.

I am supplied with far mightier means of contending for truth, than a puny sword!

All that to say, security in what one believes is a good thing. It makes one less prone to out bursts. It makes it easier to take what is there, and be content. Sort of like Peyton Manning taking what the defense gives, instead of forcing the ball down field, and getting into trouble.

I'm still learning.

It was tough to see the Cantina change, but then I accepted it as what could be. A lot better than nothing.

I hope this is somehow pertinent.

Tom
 
Tom,
I read your post and knew you were walking over the poet's ground again. The sacred stuff. Sometimes you just blurt it out.

Thank you for that,

munk
 
Sidenote: Correction:
Folks, when I mentioned Yangdu having her plate full, I did not mean or intend to mean I then spoke for her. I only speak for myself, I assure you.
And speaking up when debate or conversation is being limited without the greater body knowing is something I've been known to do before and will do again.
I'd written Nasty previously, and among other things, made it clear I write on my own. There's been a ridiculous notion going around that I and a certain mad Russian monk control nobility. I can't speak for him, can I? But for myself, I'm a friend of HI; not it's spokeman. What Yangdu does is her business. I'm her friend, not her lawyer.

munk
 
Standing up is good, very necessary at times.

I do not advocate idealogical pacifism.

Just patience!

Thank you Munk.

Tom
 
Patience here now, Tom. What you and N2 and others have said makes sense.




munk
 
Seems like about a year ago or so, the cantina got too many chiefs and sent away the indians........sad, but true. No freedom here.
 
Heckuva first post, Chow!


Welcome to Bladeforums....and the Cantina.

Handshake.GIF
 
Gee whilerkerrs Dan; you must have realllllly been impressed with Chow's first post to produce graphics within ten minutes of it's arrival. What a artisan you are indeed.



munk
 
Chow: Seems like about a year ago or so, the cantina got too many chiefs and sent away the indians........sad, but true. No freedom here "


Amazing first post Chow. You must be one of those really perceptive people.


How you can condense and analyse a history so fast.....in a 'first' post too...

Tell you what, CHOW; What the
"Chiefs" discovered about a forum, was that protecting a special thing from a real or imagined threat was a long haul away from actually being the thing, enjoying the thing, and that efforts to save her oftimes do the most harm. So much squabbling rarely results in good.

The real story is that weak man may have made his mistakes, but the reason and love behind this forum were never in doubt. A surge of worry; but there was lots of love still to go. Any 'insights' offered in the wake of a great man, Bill, and a community, are of course welcomed. Have any of those, CHOW?


munk
 
Chow - if you don't like things here, I will be glad to show you the door.

A fine introductory post.

Dan - We'll talk.
 
Nasty, you have certainly picked the correct name for yourself.
Give the guy (Chow) a minute to clear his throat before you jump down it.
 
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