Good Does More Harm Than Evil

[Michelle]

It is not coincidence that religious beliefs amongst people are specific to geographic regions on earth, to the society they inhabit. It is not hard to make the leap that man is talking about the same God using different names, different faces, although this is heresy amongst most of the religions.


munk

Vivekananda touches on exactly that philosopy in interpretation of vendantic ideas. I lean toward exactly that belief myself. No actually, I don't "lean" toward it. I believe it wholeheartedly.

m1

 

[David Schott]

Da It is not hard to make the leap that man is talking about the same God using different names, different faces, although this is heresy amongst most of the religions.


munk

Its a great debate, this one! What I enjoy is also the thought that maybe the reason all those different civilizations have similar belief structures is because people go through the same stages of life, conflict, and resolution regardless of location. Way back they didnt know what thunder was and it was easier psychologically to handle the idea of a god controlling thunderbolts or riding a chariot across the sky each day than being alone in a world with such powerful unknowns.

As time has gone by, those unknowns have changed and many of the "explaining" religions have gone the way of the dodo, but remaining belief systems still share rituals and observances for adolescence, passing into adulthood, death, birth etc...things that are obviously events that without guidance would be the most traumatic.

Which is easier?
Option 1: To live in a world where there is no higher power, bad things happen for no reason as in nature, and the idea we are intelligent animals struggling to find some order in the chaos. You must decide for yourself what is right and wrong and do it for no reason other than your own personal desire to live a certain way with the idea that when you die, you rot and thats it.
Option 2: Unexplainable conflict and occurances are part of a larger "plan" that we can never understand, but that plan is good and the best for us all. There is true right and wrong with reprecussions/rewards beyond what happens during life, and you need to put your faith in that system and believe it is best.

Objectively, option 2 seems much more appealing, doesnt it? In my mind it is MUCH more appealing! A lot less to fear, a shoulder to cry on...a system to take solace in when things go bad.

Does that make it the truth? No, but should it matter so long as everyone is happier?

Personally, I am in the Option 1 crowd, and it honestly makes me feel amazing about life. Im more of the Buddhist belief that religion is like a raft, you use it to cross the river, but you dont carry it on your back everywhere you go....all means to the same end.

 

[David Schott]

Last question! im full of this today for some reason.

Two people:
Person 1:You are born in Iraq. You are told from day 1 that there is a country across the world, and that those people are evil. You are told they need to die and oppose everything you stand for. You have no alternative views available, so have no reason to not beleive everything youve been told. You set an IED and kill a soldier in the US army.
Person 2. You are born in the US. You know there are people like person 1. You go to Iraq and are killed by an IED.

Who is the bigger victim in the ultimate sense? The soldier for being blown up doing something he though was "good", or the kid in Iraq who never even had a chance to know anything beyond what they were fed? Who is "right"? I can guarantee every suicide bomber who strapped a bomb to themselves "believed" in the "good" they were about to do just as strongly as anyone ever could.

These are all just theoretical situations...but thoughts always pour across me when it comes to topics like this. When I step outside my own selfish experiences, i find the world a much more interesting place. Maybe everything I believe is total bull. Maybe if i knew everything about every culture, I would feel 100% different about everything. Maybe people I hate and think are horrible actually are justified when I step outside the fact that I am totally jaded by my own upbringing. Maybe we are all victims of our isolation, regardless of how much we have at our fingertips to teach us about other cultures.

 

[munk]

David, you said, "Does that make it the truth? No, but should it matter as long as one is happier?"

So that's three questions, not just 'which is easier' as you'd originally asked!

It doesn't make it the truth. As for happier or/and easier, I'm not sure the non deity choice is harder, easier or happier, and visa versa for the deity choice.

Believing in a higher power, God, a deity, usually brings with it responsibilities that are demanding. In the past, with Christianity, it can be downright condemning. I'm not sure being a Muslim is a tender road, either. There are consequences to weigh, obligations to fulfill, and one still has to face the real world here on earth in space and time, with our Federal Government asking always for just a little more porridge!

Now, with the non deity option, I've often heard this being used as a point of toughness, I can take the 'truth' head on. But the lack of guidelines often results in a moral relativism, anything except out and out murder, theft rape and aggression being slathered together in a kind of do your own thing, my culture is equal to yours. This seems easier to me.

Truly though, I think life can be wonderful, but it is also tough as nails, harsh, unfair, brutal and killing. Life is untenable in placing us in a darned if we do, darned if we don't do" position. (you like my 1950's clean language sweep? Sort of like, "Gee Willakeers Mr Wilson!")

I think the individual faces real pain and joy regardless of the road taken.
No one skates out of this with free air.


munk

 

[Nasty]

Wow...did I hear a threat there? That's likely a first...but probably won't be the last.

Folks...don't task me...keep it nice and at a mature level please. If you don't like it when I post, make better choices.

Great thread with some real nonsense in it.

 

[Bladite]

Rhetorical question:
If you are speeding, and get a speeding ticket, should you:
A. Blame the cop.
B. Blame the government.
C. Blame yourself.
Mike

C. of course. you knew what rule(s) you were breaking.

you might have been doing it for a long time before you got caught. there's a repercussion.

you might have even been breaking a few you didn't know about, but be sure the officer will explain them by name for you.

typically, you pay your fines, reset.

you can't blame the officer. he's enforcing laws legally voted for/etc. he's doing his job, per the rules structures, that you've agreed to. that's it.

it does suck though, to break a rule, not know the rule was there, not have an explanation of the rule after the fact, or even a warning "fix it before i do". zero tolerance can be tiring for everyone.

don't speed.

bladite

 

[Nasty]

The rules have been posted...but to be blunt, there are many that everyone here should have heard before while growing up.

Explanations have been offered, but instead of accepting them, some folks just want to argue.

Warnings have been provided...it's up to the poster to heed them.

 

[spiraltwista]

. It is not hard to make the leap that man is talking about the same God using different names, different faces, although this is heresy amongst most of the religions.
munk

Great thread! Interesting stuff!

In a way I would rather not address this to you Munk, but you gave me such a potential lead in. So Thankyou. I actualy think most religions accept God by many names. Perhaps Christianity least of all?

The Koran lists 99 names for God or Allah, {The arabic word for God.}{There is a 100th but its secret. } They say Jesus was a great Prophet of God, {Same as Mohamed.}

Sadley like most religions based on a book, including Christianity , extremists come up with ther own biased interpritations & teach those who havent self learned & read & interpreted the true word, but rather in thier ignorance accept there biased interpritation of it , built by people masqerading as religios leaders who are realy but undercover politicians & manipulaters with an agenda often based on divisivenes , control & hate.

Rural Hndus have thousands of Gods down to the level of The God of the village pond, or the big rock on the left. Very accepting.

They also point out that Buddha was a Hindu.

That covers 3 of of the 4 main religions of the world, I think?

My knowledge of Taoism is vertualy nonexistant unfortuanatly accept around diet & sex. {Thanks to an American hieress. }

Spiral

 

[munk]

The Big Rock on the Left has long held my attention.



munk

 

[spiraltwista]

Ive noticed that to...

Spiral

 

[munk]

The 'darn' truth is that I like rocks. And if you're out of doors, in a wild setting, there are often outcrops or piles or features that are simply outstanding... and yeah, this is real thread drift...but I like boulders warmed in the sun. So do Lizards. Lizards know these things.


munk

 

[gravertom]

Religions are similar, because people are similar. The same, really,down deep.

Religions as well as people.

I see only two "religions". The first kind, the most common, is any belief system that ultimately dispenses "salvation" based upon the efforts of the individual. There is usually some help available from whatever deity is supposedly involved.

The second is the one where "salvation" is entirely an unmerited gift.

The reason the religions of the world ( extremist practitioners notwithstanding) have so much in common is because they cater to human nature, a nature that wishes to merit it's own happiness, a nature that ultimately wishes to be it's own god.

Biblical (unbiased interpretation of the Bible! ) Christianity offers no room for human pride, or merit, or self deification. It offers unmerited bliss, and forgiveness for offending against the absolute standard of goodness, and that standard's Author.

There they are. A religion of self righteousness, or a religion of a Savior, and his righteousness. Interestingly, Christianity transcends culture. There are true believers among every tongue, tribe, and nation. They are scattered about, like leaven in the dough, or salt upon the meat. They turn up in places where teaching contrary to Christianity has long dominated. Of course, other "religions" are scattered about also. Human nature can trump culture also. Again, they are all ultimately variations on a theme.

As the reason for tolerance among all of the worlds religions is based upon their similarity, so the common intolerance for true Christianity exists because of its dissimilarity. It comes with a righteous judgment, and people don't like that. It is unavoidable though, as unavoidable as a light dispelling darkness, wherever it comes. Salt does what it does. It cleanses, it stings, it preserves, it melts the ice. It does not accommodate human pride. Light is light, and cannot but shine. "Men loved the darkness, because their deeds were evil."

So the peoples gather, (when they can stop bickering) and would build anew the tower of Babel, to reach a heaven of their own devising, whether it is called the Nanny State, the Police State, or whatever other name might be used. It may masquerade as "good", but playing god is not good. Man has overstepped his bounds, has claimed powers and rights he does not posses, and finds that he cannot deliver on his promise to provide happiness for himself, by himself, or of himself.

Good does more harm than evil?

When the terms are properly defined and utilized, it is an absurd proposition. (I understand it was offered, in this context, as a conversation starter) Good cannot do evil, or be evil, by definition.

Meaning well is no help. One may wish to prevent harm, but depriving people of the means to defend themselves is an evil act, in and of itself, even if in so doing you MEAN to prevent harm.



This is my contribution. very narrow minded, but not hateful, although many may be angered by it. 2+2=4 is narrow too. It IS true though. No matter what.

Neither my Lord nor I advocate violence to propagate his Truth. The fact that many, claiming his name ,have done so, is no dishonor to him, nor does it bring his truth at all into question. Such activities and evil deeds are no part of his teaching.

Truth is truth, good is good.

"there is none that seeketh after God, no, not one."

"I came to seek and save that which was lost."

My gold membership should be renewed shortly, so feel free to pm me on this topic when it is. Until then, anyone who wants to ask me anything, or hear any more about this subject, can e-mail me at

gravertom@yahoo.com

There is a peace that passes understanding.

"whosoever thirsteth, and whosoever will, let him come."

Tom

 

[munk]

Very well done post, Tom. There are a few friends I've known over the years who could make the Testament come alive, and feel living, as your post does.


munk