Good steel for abrasive cutting

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May 21, 2013
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I work in a chemical plant, and routinely have to cut into industrial insulation to inspect the equipment behind it. Tin snips are good but they leave a jagged cut. A knife leaves a much cleaner cut. I'm looking for a steel that will give me the most cuts in between sharpening. Currently I use a Cold Steel American Lawman (AUS8), a Buck csar-t (ATS-34), and a ZT 0561(Elmax). I love the lawman's thinner hollow grind blade. Maybe I should pick up the CTS XHP version.
From what I've read, my two best options are m390 and m4. what do you guys think?
I would be cutting through one to two layers of thin sheet metal and whatever material is insulating. Sometimes it's hard sheetrock material and sometimes it's a pumice type material. Any steel can do this. I'm looking for longevity.
Thanks
 
Oh wow man, cutting thin sheet metal I doubt some of these high carbide steels will do what you want. I'd suggest something more along the lines of cruwear/PD1/3V. Cutting metal with a knife is tough. The high carbide steels like M390 and whatnot would probably be good for the insulation but the sheet metal adds a different component to the equation that isn't talked about because a lot of the popular steels can't handle it that well. Something in vanadis 4E or 4V might be up the road you're trying to go but those steels are hard to come by in the US. M4 might be good if heat treated for toughness over high edge retention alone. You may need to revert back to some basic carbon steels in order to handle the sheet metal adequately.

I'd find a good custom maker in this situation who works with some of these steels. Or look up big chris or Nathan the machinist hete on the forums. They have a good bit of experience working with these steels in this fashion. If you're only interested in folding knives then you might not get the answers you want.
 
Oh, and kudos to you for laying out exactly what you want the knife to do. So many people dont. Subscribed.
 
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First knife that came to mind reading the requirements is a Hultafors heavy duty GK.

Forget trying to be fancy or seeking out the latest greatest super steel that will chip edges on that kind of work. The Hultafors GK is made for that exact kind of work. Even the Hultafors HVK GH I have would be a stellar performer for them tasks, it was also designed for that exact kind of work. The SK5 steel they use will not disappoint at all. There will be no bragging about a sleek name or what you paid for it, but for that kind of stuff I use my HVK GH and it just laughs at me like them tasks ain't squat. Get both to offset the shipping costs. You'll still have money left over for a fancy steel blade but after you use something fancy compared to them work knives, it will stay clipped in the pocket.
 
Thanks a lot. I will take all that into consideration. What I have now works pretty good. No chipping or rolling. Just looking for a sharper edge at the end of the day. Think I'll look into the cru-wear and 3V. Wanting a new knife anyways.
Thank you for the praise. Looks like I did my homework on review writing.
 
Thanks Boris, definitely the tool for the job. Unfortunately it has to be folding pier the plant's rules.
 
For a hard working folder, I don't think you're going to find anything tougher than the Cold Steels.

And, since the Cold Steel Lawman works for you, then upgrading to the CTS-XHP version seems the best option.
Lawman - http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/CS...awman-folding-knife-cts-xhp-blade-g10-handles

I would recommend you consider a longer blade, if plant rules permit. Stepping up to the Recon 1 (4") or Recon XL (5.5"), both in CTS-XHP, would give you more cutting edge.
Recon 1 - http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/CS...1-spear-point-cts-xhp-plain-blade-g10-handles
Recon XL - http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/CS...-1-clip-point-cts-xhp-plain-blade-g10-handles


Normally, for someone doing a lot of cutting, I would recommend a fully Serrated Edge. In general, Serrated Edges will cut longer than Plain Edges. But I'm not sure if that would still hold true when cutting sheet metal. There are SE versions of the Recons.

I would consider this Cold Steel Recon XL Tanto SE as a max-effort piercer and cutter ...
http://www2.knifecenter.com/item/CS...on-1-tanto-cts-xhp-serrated-blade-g10-handles
 
For a hard working folder, I don't think you're going to find anything tougher than the Cold Steels.

In this case it is not about the strongest lock. It is about the toughest steel. Since the OP is cutting metal(!?) CPM 3V is arguably tougher than CTS-XHP. Although I personally would not be surprised if he rolls the edge anyway. I would prefer INFI for the OP's cutting tasks, but unfortunately it has to be a folder.
 
Thanks for the info guys. To clarify; the metal cutting is me making a 3"x3" 'window' in the insulation. Basically i pierce the metal and rotate the edge down. There's definitely no sawing back and forth.
I think I'll go with the updated Lawman... for starters. I just sold my Recon yesterday. 3.5" works for me.
 
My friend anything in 3V! As suggested above Spyderco Tuff and the upcoming Boker Solo let us know what you end up with!
 
Since it has to be a folder then I'd look at M4 first, several of those are out there in various configurations by different companies. The application doesn't sound like it needs high impact resistance and it doesn't sound the you need to pry a whole lot. If you did I would have suggested 3V or Cruwear over M4. Since that's not the case I think M4 would stand up to the use better.
 
I work in a chemical plant, and routinely have to cut into industrial insulation to inspect the equipment behind it. Tin snips are good but they leave a jagged cut. A knife leaves a much cleaner cut. I'm looking for a steel that will give me the most cuts in between sharpening. Currently I use a Cold Steel American Lawman (AUS8), a Buck csar-t (ATS-34), and a ZT 0561(Elmax). I love the lawman's thinner hollow grind blade. Maybe I should pick up the CTS XHP version.
From what I've read, my two best options are m390 and m4. what do you guys think?
I would be cutting through one to two layers of thin sheet metal and whatever material is insulating. Sometimes it's hard sheetrock material and sometimes it's a pumice type material. Any steel can do this. I'm looking for longevity.
Thanks

OP, since I thought your question was a good one and I'm always interested in learning I copied your question and posted it in another forum to see what was said. Here is an answer given by someone who's fairly well educated in this kind of stuff:

Lets take a look at what we need, to start :

Impact toughness is of no benefit here as the knife isn't going to take any impact, corrosion resistance also isn't an issue and thus we don't need high impact toughness or corrosion resistance. Now what do we need/want? A steel which has high strength and wear resistance to reduce rolling/deformation and wear. As there is metal being cut, a high adhesive wear resistance is desired.

Now you might be inclined to say that you need chip resistance however because there is no strict demand for a very high cutting ability, the chip resistance can be obtained simply by adjusting the edge geometry so that it has enough stability so that the apex will not suffer carbide tear out.

The last thing is that the required sharpness is really low. Gypsum board and sheet metal can be, and in fact typically are cut with blades so dull they won't pass many sharpness tests that are typically discussed. Even fibreglass insulation can be cut with very dull blades.

Now what does all of this mean, look for :

-a very high hardness in ideally a HSS (as it is very easy to get high martensite fraction)
-a very high carbide fraction

and then adjust the edge to ensure it doesn't chip and is the minimal apex and edge angle and then minimize the edge thickness and then primary grind as this will enhance performance strongly.

A few candidates would be - M4 as a readily available steel or ideally something like Maxamet or 121REX. If you have access to a custom maker you could get a very decent knife even from something as simple as 1095 at 67 HRC. Alvin Johnson used to do comparisons of 1095/67 HRC on exactly that type of work (trimming metal) and noting how strongly it would out perform something like ATS-34/60+ HRC by Paul Bos.

The critical part is however to adjust the edge so that it doesn't chip and has the minimal configuration. This has an even bigger influence than the steel.
 
And:

4V is essentially a cold work version of M4, or more precisely a less hot work as it still has a strong secondary hardening response, just slightly less than M4. How strong a hardening response, well just look at this :

- https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3dKJo ... sp=sharing

The reason all those tempers were done was to get the hardness down to ~62 HRC, the primary tempers left it at 64 HRC.

Would 4V be superior to M4? i don't see why it would, however it isn't like M4 is going to be significant superior either. I can't see how 4V would be superior to 10V in that application as there is no impact and thus the greater impact toughness has no use so 4V is just weaker and less abrasion resistant. Maxamet and 121REX take that one step further still. 121REX is a pretty interesting material at low sharpness because at ~70 HRC with a huge carbide volume fraction it can do some pretty interesting things. I can take a 121REX knife for example and draw it right across a sharpening stone, edge first, and the apex won't reflect light. The high sharpness goes rapidly, I assume through some kind of micro-fracture, but to get it beyond 20 microns thick (which is where I can see it reflect light) takes a lot of work. Of course ideally you would just use a ceramic or carbide blade, adjust the geometry and keep all loads in compression.

I don't see why you would think S90V would be horrible but 4V would be great, exactly what are you thinking about there?

I just mean a lot of carbide, yes, ideally it should be well dispersed, any aggregates tend to be detrimental unless you are looking for some kind of self-fracturing effect which I don't think would be useful here.
 
My friend anything in 3V! As suggested above Spyderco Tuff and the upcoming Boker Solo let us know what you end up with!

Both look good to me. Trying to decide between the flashiness of the Tuff and the simplistic look of the Solo
 
Since it has to be a folder then I'd look at M4 first, several of those are out there in various configurations by different companies. The application doesn't sound like it needs high impact resistance and it doesn't sound the you need to pry a whole lot. If you did I would have suggested 3V or Cruwear over M4. Since that's not the case I think M4 would stand up to the use better.

Thank you for the knowledge. M4 looks the best choice for this application. No excessive lateral stress is expected. Just piercing in and letting the edge do it's job. Might go with 3V for a wider range of use though.
 
Spyderco Tuff looked a little gimmicky at first with the non traditional look. Thank god for Russian knife tests. Carves holes in tin cans and still shaves hair.
Any suggestions for a knife using M4? Are there any models I should avoid?

BM Contego is a bit too long. I prefer ~3.5"
Spyderco Gayle Bradley looks like my fingers could slide up onto the blade.
I know there have been a few sprint runs, but the prices...
I know, quality doesn't come cheap.
 
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