Got an Import by Mistake

Then what you are saying is we should collect the name not the knife.I don't think so.Arnold
 
Well put, Codger.

I'm glad that MSM declared his bias, just as everyone knows my bias!

To me, a Schrade is not always necessarily a Schrade. :)
Del
 
Codger, you have spoken extremely well and extremely true. Thank you.

As far as TBLLC, I hope that he does bring production back to the US, but only if he will improve the quality back to where it was during the Walden and Ellenville era. Schrade was known for QUALITY KNIVES, MADE IN THE USA. It takes both, not just one alone. Quality made in China (as Codger already stated) is not a collectable commodity. Poor quality made in the US is of no value either, at least to those of us who recognize and appreciate it.
 
Just happened upon this thread. Never have been a Schrade collector, but agree that NOTHING is collectible if it is made in China, as far as production knives are concerned. I admire the original Schrades, just never had the opportunity to own one.

Chinese production knives = crap. I don't care what the package looks like or what the brand name is, junk is junk.
 
MontanaSteelMan posted 02-28-06 said:
...I don't understand what the big deal is about whether a knife is made in the U.S. or China.

My first knife was an Old Timer pocket knife that my Dad bought me at the local country store. It's kind of worn out so I bought a new one a few weeks ago...I can't see any difference in the quality.
Click to expand...

MontanaSteelMan posted 03-01-06 said:
...To answer one person's question, I am NOT a Schrade Dealer...
Click to expand...

MontanaSteelMan posted 08-23-06 said:
...I am a Schrade dealer...
Click to expand...

I thought you sounded familiar. So now you are a TBLLC dealer? And after six months, you still cannot tell the difference? Nevermind. Barnum et al were right.

Codger
 
So, MontanaSteelMan, you got some 'splainin' to do!!!
And I'll bring some politics into it! The Chinese human rights record is atrocious! They are harvesting organs from persecuted religious prisoners (the Falun Gong). They exploit their own people, displacing them mercilessly for dam projects both finished (Three Gorges) and under way.
The industrial pollution in that country (spreading to the rest of the world) is some of the worst known. There is little freedom of expression or the press! They hunger for U.S. dollars to continue their push toward wealth and power. Why would any thinking person give them a nickel!!
Osama & co. are NO threat compared to what's coming from the Chinese, and they will do it with OUR North American dollars! They don't need bombs. Their voracious use of copper and oil, and other resources is a big factor in being able to fill your tank!! Support your neighbor, not some vicious foreign industrialists!!!!!!!!
 
G'Day from Downunder, Another variation I hadn't considered.I just received a near mint 150T USA Schrade encased in a "new"? reconstituted leather Taylor third chinese rate sheath. Ebay purchase. This reputable dealer? extolled the merits of the collector value of this knife in great length without mentioning he had fudged his info "complete with new leather sheath".Doesnt even smell like the rich genuine Schrade leather which I think is an important part of a collectable near mint knife..this smells more like something Chinese....however I wont go into further detail! Hoo Roo from Oz.
 
Larry303; It's good to see you post again and I hope you choose to frequent our playground. Reconstituted leather has few merits....in fact I can't think of any. It does afford an ill informed and unscroupulous vendor and manufacturer a really big profit for undesireable goods. It also fairly well matches the quality of the product it holds, in my opinion.

Paul
 
Codger_64 said:
I thought you sounded familiar. So now you are a TBLLC dealer? And after six months, you still cannot tell the difference? Nevermind. Barnum et al were right.

Codger
Click to expand...

Mr. Codger:

Yes, I am now a Schrade dealer. Even though I am a mom and pop type of operation here in the Ruby Valley. I do not have a storefront per se, I mostly sell to some friends, family and hunting buddies. I am by choice on a limited budget (my decision to allow me to live the Montana life style), and was fortunate enough to go to the SHOT show as a guest of a friend. I was visiting Glenn Erbele's booth, and saw the Schrade signs at their booth. I naturally migrated toward the knives, and met one of Mr. Taylor's sons at the booth. Looking at the quality of the knives, I could not a first glance tell any differences in the new ones, and what I was carrying in my pocket (8OT) that day.

I left my contact information, and one of their reps contacted me. I signed up in April. The first shipment received, I questioned the use of the U.S. flag, and that is when I called and talked with Mr. Taylor about the use of the flag.

Any way. I don't want to debate the working conditions, the over-use of natural resourses, or other items directly related to the chinese labor force. I have never been there, so therefore I am not qualified to comment on this.
All we have to go on is third hand information, if we've not been there to experiece it ourselves.

I didn't mean to open up a can of worms in this forum. It appears to me that there are enough well intentioned people here that are more than willing to do that. All I can say is that in my previous post in this thread, I related information that I received from my sales rep, and from my phone conversation with Mr. Taylor. I was amazed that by simply placing a phone call, the owner of this company picked up the phone and graciously talked to me without knowing who I was, or what I was wanting.

So logic would dictate that if any of us here in this forum wanted to know something. All we would have to do is call and talk with Mr. Taylor, that is if we have the balls to do so. My question is this. How can you disseminate information about Taylor and his company without ever having had picked up the phone and called him.
 
Mr Taylor may be a GREAT guy, willing to help his dealers at any time, gives to charity and everything else that makes a person great. This may make some people feel good about buying the new schrade knives, but for most people here, (taking it upon myself to speak for people here) ..... it doesn't change the fact the knives are made in china.
You can't take an American tradition, send it to China, and expect "knife" people to accept it. There's just something wrong about that.
 
Despite the politics on the aforementioned threads, I still cannot understand how anyone, cannot tell the difference, up close between the Original Schrade product and the Chinese made stuff, It stands out a mile. The Chinese knives are put together with little thought to quality, I have a few which I bought for curiosity, there are many things that are inferior to the original product.

Rusty1
 
Mr. MontanaSteelMan:

Again I suggest to you that there are no more Schrade dealers. They either went out of business with Imperial Schrade in 2004, or found other products to sell. You then are a Taylor Brands Limited Liability Corp. Dealer selling imported copies of Schrades with TBLLC owned trademarks stamped on them. Do you call Imperial Schrade to order your stock? Do your product invoices say "Imperial Schrade"? No.

Again, if you could not tell any differences in the quality of the Chinese made Taylor imports and the Imperial Schrades they were copied from, that speaks volumes to me about your knowledge of knives in general, and Schrades in particular.

You mention the flag issue to Mr. Taylor this April, and you believe you were the first to complain to Mr. Taylor about it? Learn to use the search function here please. Concerns and complaints had been sent to TBLLC as much as a year or more prior to your conversation on the matter.

Please read the header at the top of this forum page. Each time you come here, you tout the virtues of the chinese knives (open up a can of worms) to people who know better, and you get a chilly reception. Why come back? I assure you that if you do the same in Mr. Levine's forum, or A.G. Russell's, they will not be nearly so polite and go to the trouble to explain why they think you are wrong. In fact, why don't you do that? Go tell them the virtues of the products you sell to your friends and see what they have to say?

Mr. Codger
 
Again I suggest to you that there are no more Schrade dealers. They either went out of business with Imperial Schrade in 2004, or found other products to sell. You then are a Taylor Brands Limited Liability Corp. Dealer selling imported copies of Schrades with TBLLC owned trademarks stamped on them. Do you call Imperial Schrade to order your stock? Do your product invoices say "Imperial Schrade"? No.
Click to expand...
There's a quick left jab to the jaw...

Again, if you could not tell any differences in the quality of the Chinese made Taylor imports and the Imperial Schrades they were copied from, that speaks volumes to me about your knowledge of knives in general, and Schrades in particular.
Click to expand...
... followed by a hard left/right combination to the bread-basket...

You mention the flag issue to Mr. Taylor this April, and you believe you were the first to complain to Mr. Taylor about it? Learn to use the search function here please. Concerns and complaints had been sent to TBLLC as much as a year or more prior to your conversation on the matter.
Click to expand...
... ohhhh, there's a hard right hook to the jaw! That sent the challenger against the ropes. Wait... He's staggering... He's on the canvas! The ref moves in for the count. One, two...

Please read the header at the top of this forum page. Each time you come here, you tout the virtues of the chinese knives (open up a can of worms) to people who know better, and you get a chilly reception. Why come back? I assure you that if you do the same in Mr. Levine's forum, or A.G. Russell's, they will not be nearly so polite and go to the trouble to explain why they think you are wrong. In fact, why don't you do that? Go tell them the virtues of the products you sell to your friends and see what they have to say?
Click to expand...
... Three! Yes, he's out! He's done for! It's over! Codger wins in a 3rd round KO !!!! What a phenomenal display of power and technique!
 
philw posted 04-29-05 said:
I sent Taylor an email yesterday telling them that I wasn't pleased with the way they were using the American flag. This is my original email, their reply, and my reply. I have had no further replies from Taylor.

Hello,
Let me first state my extreme displeasure with Taylor having the new Schrade product made in China.
Secondly, I noticed a 127 OT Sheep Horn Trapper on ebay claiming it was from the new Taylor production run. In the photo the box has an American flag on the top of it. If this is the actual packaging that Taylor is using then your are being very deceptive and you will also probably be hearing from the FTC who frowns upon this sort of advertising.
Taylor cutlery should be ashamed of themselves for putting an American flag on something that was made in China!
If the packaging is incorrect then I would suggest you try to shut the ebay sellers down who are marketing it.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6528633130

Thank you for your time,
Phillip Whitmore

Dear Sir,

Most of the packaging all looks the same. Some of the Schrade is being made in Japan, China, Taiwan and some is also being made here in the USA. The knives are all correctly marked with country of origin and we are not trying to be deceptive about anything.

Again some patterns of the Schrade line are still USA made. Our company is based out of Tennessee and we do produce knives here.

Thank you for your time and bringing your attention to this matter. If we can help you with anything else let us know.

Sincerely,


Thank you for your reply but it did not clear up my confusion. Is Taylor Cutlery selling product that is made in China or elsewhere that is packaged in a box with an American flag on it? If so then I would suggest dropping the American flag from the packaging. The problem is made worse by using the name from a well known 100 year old cutlery company.
The following is from the FTC's website:

" In addition, USDrives packaged its Chinese-made products in packages that featured the American eagle and the American flag and included the statement "Made in China" only in small print on side or bottom panels of the packages."

This can be found under section 2, Enforcement actions at the following link.

http://www.ftc.gov/os/1999/04/musareport.htm

Taylor Cutlery may not be in violation of the law but it is a misrepresentation to the vast majority of the buying public.

Which Schrade products are being produced in the United States? What other products are being produced in the United States? What percentage of Taylor Cutlery's products are produced in the United States?

Thank you for your time,
Phillip Whitmore
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Bob Watson Posted 07-27-05 said:
Attn: Blade forum;

I just received an email from Taylor Brands. Here is the response from Mr. Taylor.


----- Original Message -----
From: Taylor Brands Sales
To: bob6@naxs.net
Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 3:41 PM
Subject: Schrade Boxes


Dear Mr. Watson
Received your email concerning the Schrade box design with the American Flag. When we purchased Schrade we were in a tremendous rush to bring product back to the stores. We hired the former Schrade artist that had created all of the Schrade artwork. Schrade artwork had the American Flag on imports as well as domestic.

The new box designs do not carry the American Flag on domestic products or foreign made products. We have redesigned all the new boxes and you will see the new artwork within the next several months. Thank you for your concern.

Sincerely,
Stewart Taylor
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Mr. Codger
 
Codger_64 said:
Mr. MontanaSteelMan:

Again I suggest to you that there are no more Schrade dealers. They either went out of business with Imperial Schrade in 2004, or found other products to sell. You then are a Taylor Brands Limited Liability Corp. Dealer selling imported copies of Schrades with TBLLC owned trademarks stamped on them. Do you call Imperial Schrade to order your stock? Do your product invoices say "Imperial Schrade"? No.

Please read the header at the top of this forum page. Each time you come here, you tout the virtues of the chinese knives (open up a can of worms) to people who know better, and you get a chilly reception. Why come back? I assure you that if you do the same in Mr. Levine's forum, or A.G. Russell's, they will not be nearly so polite and go to the trouble to explain why they think you are wrong. In fact, why don't you do that? Go tell them the virtues of the products you sell to your friends and see what they have to say?

Mr. Codger
Click to expand...

Like it or not, the name Schrade is still alive, and it is a brand.

I have never touted the virtues of the chinese knives. I have commented that the quality to my (as you implied "uneducated eyes") appears as good as my original knife.

Have you always been an expert on Schrade and their knives, or did you too have to have a starting point in your road to infinite knowledge? Why insult me and tell me to go elsewhere?

Where did you gain your knowledge?

Is the knowledge you have gained for you and you alone? Or are you willing to share it with us uneducated fools?

Or is this a case of I have a slightly differing opinion from you, and you don't want me to play in your sand box anymore?
 
My words are wasted as if blown away by the wind for they fall on the closed ears of those who will not hear, or if hearing, do not comprehend.

The knowledge I have gained has been earned with hard work and study and shared freely here with people who want to learn also.

I don't know where in my patient explanations and willingness to openly debate the subject you bring here elude your comprehension, but none was meant to insult you. Spend some time reading here and educating yourself. Buy a NIB original Schrade to match every chinese knife you own or intend to sell and see for yourself the difference. Maybe I am wrong, but you came here to tell US how the cow ate the cabbage, not to read, ask questions and learn. I will say no more.

Codger
 
There he goes again with the quality :as good as my original knife: AYE, AYE, AYE, there is no hope is there?

Rusty1
 
Codger_64 said:
Mr. MontanaSteelMan:

Please read the header at the top of this forum page. Each time you come here, you tout the virtues of the chinese knives (open up a can of worms) to people who know better, and you get a chilly reception. Why come back? I assure you that if you do the same in Mr. Levine's forum, or A.G. Russell's, they will not be nearly so polite and go to the trouble to explain why they think you are wrong. In fact, why don't you do that? Go tell them the virtues of the products you sell to your friends and see what they have to say?

Mr. Codger
Click to expand...

Schrade Knives Collectors Forum Imperial Schrade Corp. - maker of Schrade Knives & Tools, including the famous Uncle Henry and Old Timer Brands - all made in the USA. Since Schrade closed their doors, this forum has become a site for the collectors to meet and share information

As you can see. I can read. And, yes Mr. Codger, I have commented on the (as you call them) new Schrades or Chinese copies. Having done a search of your posts in the past 1.5 hours (over 3000 since Oct 2004) you too have commented on post bankruptcy Schrades. Is this the goose calling the gander a bigot, or the pot calling the kettle black? It is obvious from your hell freezing over sign that even a high quality American made Schrade Knife is not worthy.

It would seem from your previous comments in this thread that even if Taylor does make American Schrades they would not be good enough for you. It is apparent that you have a personal vendetta against Stewart Taylor. When I spoke with him on the phone, he seemed very forthright and was a gentleman. Do you know Stewart Taylor? Have you ever called him and advised him on what he needs to do to make Schrades to your criteria, that would meet your expectations.

If not, why haven't you done so? When will you?



FONT]
 
where I was raised, even the youngest knew enough not to drink downstream from the herd, or, to suck on yellow snow!
 
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