Guardians of The Lambsfoot!

[Dschal]

So folks I hope you enjoyed my mini diversion from the doom n gloom.

I enjoyed it very much David. Excellent post. Thank you for sharing. I appreciate your effort.

 

[CelloDan]

Not true. "Physical distancing" could refer to anything (apple, dog, chair, etc.), but "social distancing" refers to people. Maybe not necessarily literal, but everyone understands it. (My opinion.)

English semantics is really not my strength.

Here is where I read it for the whole context ( CTV news is a respected news source here in Canada )
https://www.ctvnews.ca/health/coron...-better-term-than-social-distancing-1.4863344

 

[Prester John]

Morning folks you all ok?
So a few days ago I did a post on a visit to Winchester. I did say I had a little more so I hope you enjoy this.
When the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians invaded/settled the island of what would become England in the 6th century they created seven kingdoms. Over the next three hundred years, through conquest, alliance and marriage the smaller kingdoms were absorbed to leave four kingdoms; Northumberland in the north, Mercia in the centre, Anglia in the East and Wessex in the south.

After 70 odd years of raiding in AD865 the Danes landed an army the Anglo-Saxons called 'The Great Heathen Army'. Instead of raiding this army stayed and established itself on the island during which time it cut a swathe through the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms until by about AD871 only Wessex remained.

Alfred was the youngest son of four brothers and only became king because his elders were all killed. Through waxing and waning fortunes he eventually defeated the Danes at the Battle of Eddington in AD878.
If you know your ancient lore it is this Alfred who supposedly burnt the cakes whilst sheltering in the hovel of a swineherd while on the run from the Vikings. Alfred again defeated the Danes AD892-896 and it was Alfred's grandson, Aethelstan who became the first true King Of England in AD927.
This is a very famous Victorian statue of Alfred on the high street of Winchester, (the oldest high street in the realm) the capital of the kingdom Wessex and later that of England. If you ever watch a documentary on Anglo-Saxons they always show this statue.

Alfred set up a series of Burghs; fortified towns, that were the basis of many of our modern towns and cities. The Anglo-Saxons though didn't build castles so it wasn't until William the Conqueror's victory at the Hastings in 1066 did England see it's first.
As Winchester was the capital of England it was to Winchester that William rode after Hastings to claim the royal treasury. Winchester castle was built by 1067 and was then rebuilt and fortified over the centuries, but the only remains of that castle now is the 'Great Hall'.

The Great Hall was built by Henry III in the 13th century and is the finest and most complete example of a medieval banqueting hall remaining in the entire UK, and was still in use as a court of law until the 1960's.
If you've ever watched any British dramas or Hollywood films set in the medieval/Tudor periods you'll of actually of seen this hall as it's been used as a filming location in dozens of productions.

The great round circle hanging on the wall is 'The Round Table'. Yip, that round table, the one of Arthurian legend.
Not really. Dendrochronolgy has proved it was built in about the 13th century, but during the late medieval and Tudor periods, it was genuinely believed to be the original round table.
It was originally plain but it was Henry VIII who in around 1520 had it painted with the names of all Arthurian knights. Henry VIII had an obsession with King Arthur and, as King Arthur was then still a genuine historical figure, commissioned many works to reinforce the belief that he was a worthy successor to the 'Once and Future King'.
It has hung continuously on both the east and west walls of the Great Hall since Henry VIII ordered it so.

The only other remains of Winchester Castle and indeed the town walls as a whole is the Westgate. Built in the 13th century. There's a museum in here but it's shut during winter.

Once every town in England had a town cross. Few remain but Winchester's is a particularly fine example.
Known as the 'Butter Cross' it dates from at least the 14th century. As an aside, the building to the left is apparently the site of King Alfred's Royal Palace.

And finally, so I can claim this post has at least something to do with lambsfoot knives this is my ironwood above the River Itchen, the river that flows through Winchester. Winchester was founded by the Roman's when they built a town next to the ford that crossed the Itchen.

If your a fisherman, you should know that people travel from far and wide to fish the chalk rivers of the south country and south west England. They are renowned for their clarity and purity and their trout (and salmon) fishing.
https://www.visit-hampshire.co.uk/explore/rivers-and-canals

So folks I hope you enjoyed my mini diversion from the doom n gloom. Winchester is a fine though remarkably small historic city that sits less than an hour to the west of London. It has more history than you can shake a stick at and some very fine (and very expensive) real ale pubs.

All the best.

Excellent post, David. I'll post my round table later, with the lambsfoot I have in my pocket. (In line at the grocery store now.)

 

[Jack Black]

Morning folks you all ok?
So a few days ago I did a post on a visit to Winchester. I did say I had a little more so I hope you enjoy this.
When the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians invaded/settled the island of what would become England in the 6th century they created seven kingdoms. Over the next three hundred years, through conquest, alliance and marriage the smaller kingdoms were absorbed to leave four kingdoms; Northumberland in the north, Mercia in the centre, Anglia in the East and Wessex in the south.

After 70 odd years of raiding in AD865 the Danes landed an army the Anglo-Saxons called 'The Great Heathen Army'. Instead of raiding this army stayed and established itself on the island during which time it cut a swathe through the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms until by about AD871 only Wessex remained.

Alfred was the youngest son of four brothers and only became king because his elders were all killed. Through waxing and waning fortunes he eventually defeated the Danes at the Battle of Eddington in AD878.
If you know your ancient lore it is this Alfred who supposedly burnt the cakes whilst sheltering in the hovel of a swineherd while on the run from the Vikings. Alfred again defeated the Danes AD892-896 and it was Alfred's grandson, Aethelstan who became the first true King Of England in AD927.
This is a very famous Victorian statue of Alfred on the high street of Winchester, (the oldest high street in the realm) the capital of the kingdom Wessex and later that of England. If you ever watch a documentary on Anglo-Saxons they always show this statue.

Alfred set up a series of Burghs; fortified towns, that were the basis of many of our modern towns and cities. The Anglo-Saxons though didn't build castles so it wasn't until William the Conqueror's victory at the Hastings in 1066 did England see it's first.
As Winchester was the capital of England it was to Winchester that William rode after Hastings to claim the royal treasury. Winchester castle was built by 1067 and was then rebuilt and fortified over the centuries, but the only remains of that castle now is the 'Great Hall'.

The Great Hall was built by Henry III in the 13th century and is the finest and most complete example of a medieval banqueting hall remaining in the entire UK, and was still in use as a court of law until the 1960's.
If you've ever watched any British dramas or Hollywood films set in the medieval/Tudor periods you'll of actually of seen this hall as it's been used as a filming location in dozens of productions.

The great round circle hanging on the wall is 'The Round Table'. Yip, that round table, the one of Arthurian legend.
Not really. Dendrochronolgy has proved it was built in about the 13th century, but during the late medieval and Tudor periods, it was genuinely believed to be the original round table.
It was originally plain but it was Henry VIII who in around 1520 had it painted with the names of all Arthurian knights. Henry VIII had an obsession with King Arthur and, as King Arthur was then still a genuine historical figure, commissioned many works to reinforce the belief that he was a worthy successor to the 'Once and Future King'.
It has hung continuously on both the east and west walls of the Great Hall since Henry VIII ordered it so.

The only other remains of Winchester Castle and indeed the town walls as a whole is the Westgate. Built in the 13th century. There's a museum in here but it's shut during winter.

Once every town in England had a town cross. Few remain but Winchester's is a particularly fine example.
Known as the 'Butter Cross' it dates from at least the 14th century. As an aside, the building to the left is apparently the site of King Alfred's Royal Palace.

And finally, so I can claim this post has at least something to do with lambsfoot knives this is my ironwood above the River Itchen, the river that flows through Winchester. Winchester was founded by the Roman's when they built a town next to the ford that crossed the Itchen.

If your a fisherman, you should know that people travel from far and wide to fish the chalk rivers of the south country and south west England. They are renowned for their clarity and purity and their trout (and salmon) fishing.
https://www.visit-hampshire.co.uk/explore/rivers-and-canals

So folks I hope you enjoyed my mini diversion from the doom n gloom. Winchester is a fine though remarkably small historic city that sits less than an hour to the west of London. It has more history than you can shake a stick at and some very fine (and very expensive) real ale pubs.

All the best.

Thank you for an absolutely fascinating post David When all this 'stuff' is over, I think I may have to schedule a visit to Winchester

Morning Guardians

Excellent photo Dan

I’m carrying my AC today.

View attachment 1309031

Lovely pic Joshua

 

[JohnDF]

Good Morning Guardians
I'm trying to use my time at home wisely.
I've cleaned up my garage, which took a long time because we used it for storage during the remodel. That meant I had to find the proper homes for everything stored in there. Then i fixed my Jeep and got it running so I could park it in the garage again. Nothing major, just a new battery and some TLC stuff. The last two days I went through all my home tools and got them sorted out and organized. This week I'm going to get my leather tools out of the shed and start setting up a small leather shop. I'm putting the big bench and large projects on hold until Summer, but the small bench will allow me to do a lot of smaller projects to get me back in practice. It's been a big job but I can see the finish line.

Took out my Hartshead from the safe to inspect it and spend some quality time...

 

[Jack Black]

Good Morning Guardians
I'm trying to use my time at home wisely.
I've cleaned up my garage, which took a long time because we used it for storage during the remodel. That meant I had to find the proper homes for everything stored in there. Then i fixed my Jeep and got it running so I could park it in the garage again. Nothing major, just a new battery and some TLC stuff. The last two days I went through all my home tools and got them sorted out and organized. This week I'm going to get my leather tools out of the shed and start setting up a small leather shop. I'm putting the big bench and large projects on hold until Summer, but the small bench will allow me to do a lot of smaller projects to get me back in practice. It's been a big job but I can see the finish line.

Took out my Hartshead from the safe to inspect it and spend some quality time...

Well done John, and it's good to see your Barlow

 

[screened porch]

no slingshot for a few days

Bummer.

new medication, which I'm hoping will put paid to my long-standing cough

Did you finally get a diagnosis for that? You can carry the prescription to show the police!

Dang it, lost my @donn quote. I was going to give you crap for saying the table has hung continuously on two different walls.
I knew that table was fake when I saw that there was no way to get 150 sieges around it.

I think it's interesting that Mallory puts Camelot in Winchester, because I believe Winchester is pretty close to Cadbury Castle, the iron age hill fort that was substantially refortified with timber and stone in Arthurian times, on a scale much larger than the similarly fortified royal stronghold at Dumbarton(?). [consider this an anecdote, because I'm too lazy to go grubbing for sources.}

I like Churchill on King Arthur: "It is all true, or it should be, and more and better besides."
Oh me of mickle faith; best picture out of one!

 

[Jack Black]

Bummer.

Did you finally get a diagnosis for that? You can carry the prescription to show the police!

Dang it, lost my @donn quote. I was going to give you crap for saying the table has hung continuously on two different walls.
I knew that table was fake when I saw that there was no way to get 150 sieges around it.

I think it's interesting that Mallory puts Camelot in Winchester, because I believe Winchester is pretty close to Cadbury Castle, the iron age hill fort that was substantially refortified with timber and stone in Arthurian times, on a scale much larger than the similarly fortified royal stronghold at Dumbarton(?). [consider this an anecdote, because I'm too lazy to go grubbing for sources.}

I like Churchill on King Arthur: "It is all true, or it should be, and more and better besides."
Oh me of mickle faith; best picture out of one!

Yeah Hopefully better in a few days. It's been hurting a little bit with all the slingshot practice, but I've been keeping an eye on it. Malleting that post into the ground was a lot harder on it though

It turned out it has been caused by silent reflux Jer. Unfortunately, my very complacent, and now retired, doctor was extremely complacent, and after three years, I eventually had to bypass him to get a hospital appointment. A scan revealed a hiatus hernia, and silent reflux was diagnosed, after a long series of tests. The medication issued proved effective, but I had a reaction to it, and was told to stop taking it. It's taken me over a year to get the doctors to issue a replacement, and in the end I had to research my own alternative Hoping the new stuff works, and that I don't have the same reaction as before. Good tip on the prescription, I'll put it in my wallet

Nice pic Jer

 

[CelloDan]

Good Morning Guardians
I'm trying to use my time at home wisely.
I've cleaned up my garage, which took a long time because we used it for storage during the remodel. That meant I had to find the proper homes for everything stored in there. Then i fixed my Jeep and got it running so I could park it in the garage again. Nothing major, just a new battery and some TLC stuff. The last two days I went through all my home tools and got them sorted out and organized. This week I'm going to get my leather tools out of the shed and start setting up a small leather shop. I'm putting the big bench and large projects on hold until Summer, but the small bench will allow me to do a lot of smaller projects to get me back in practice. It's been a big job but I can see the finish line.

Took out my Hartshead from the safe to inspect it and spend some quality time...

John did you say "shop" , did you say "shop" , you got my heart racing and I run outside with no coat to take a pic of mine ... the snow is gone ... the door opens yeah

I'll have to take out the summer car tires and put them somewhere else and organize it ... maybe this weekend

Lambsfoot content ... my ebony is precariously hanging by the open door frame .... poor lamb ... the things I put him trough )

 

[Jack Black]

John did you say "shop" , did you say "shop" , you got my heart racing and I run outside with no coat to take a pic of mine ... the snow is gone ... the door opens yeah

I'll have to take out the summer car tires and put them somewhere else and organize it ... maybe this weekend

Lambsfoot content ... my ebony is precariously hanging by the open door frame .... poor lamb ... the things I put him trough )

The Palace of Wonders!

 

[Half/Stop]

Morning folks you all ok?
So a few days ago I did a post on a visit to Winchester. I did say I had a little more so I hope you enjoy this.
When the Angles, Saxons, Jutes and Frisians invaded/settled the island of what would become England in the 6th century they created seven kingdoms. Over the next three hundred years, through conquest, alliance and marriage the smaller kingdoms were absorbed to leave four kingdoms; Northumberland in the north, Mercia in the centre, Anglia in the East and Wessex in the south.

After 70 odd years of raiding in AD865 the Danes landed an army the Anglo-Saxons called 'The Great Heathen Army'. Instead of raiding this army stayed and established itself on the island during which time it cut a swathe through the Anglo-Saxon kingdoms until by about AD871 only Wessex remained.

Alfred was the youngest son of four brothers and only became king because his elders were all killed. Through waxing and waning fortunes he eventually defeated the Danes at the Battle of Eddington in AD878.
If you know your ancient lore it is this Alfred who supposedly burnt the cakes whilst sheltering in the hovel of a swineherd while on the run from the Vikings. Alfred again defeated the Danes AD892-896 and it was Alfred's grandson, Aethelstan who became the first true King Of England in AD927.
This is a very famous Victorian statue of Alfred on the high street of Winchester, (the oldest high street in the realm) the capital of the kingdom Wessex and later that of England. If you ever watch a documentary on Anglo-Saxons they always show this statue.

Alfred set up a series of Burghs; fortified towns, that were the basis of many of our modern towns and cities. The Anglo-Saxons though didn't build castles so it wasn't until William the Conqueror's victory at the Hastings in 1066 did England see it's first.
As Winchester was the capital of England it was to Winchester that William rode after Hastings to claim the royal treasury. Winchester castle was built by 1067 and was then rebuilt and fortified over the centuries, but the only remains of that castle now is the 'Great Hall'.

The Great Hall was built by Henry III in the 13th century and is the finest and most complete example of a medieval banqueting hall remaining in the entire UK, and was still in use as a court of law until the 1960's.
If you've ever watched any British dramas or Hollywood films set in the medieval/Tudor periods you'll of actually of seen this hall as it's been used as a filming location in dozens of productions.

The great round circle hanging on the wall is 'The Round Table'. Yip, that round table, the one of Arthurian legend.
Not really. Dendrochronolgy has proved it was built in about the 13th century, but during the late medieval and Tudor periods, it was genuinely believed to be the original round table.
It was originally plain but it was Henry VIII who in around 1520 had it painted with the names of all Arthurian knights. Henry VIII had an obsession with King Arthur and, as King Arthur was then still a genuine historical figure, commissioned many works to reinforce the belief that he was a worthy successor to the 'Once and Future King'.
It has hung continuously on both the east and west walls of the Great Hall since Henry VIII ordered it so.

The only other remains of Winchester Castle and indeed the town walls as a whole is the Westgate. Built in the 13th century. There's a museum in here but it's shut during winter.

Once every town in England had a town cross. Few remain but Winchester's is a particularly fine example.
Known as the 'Butter Cross' it dates from at least the 14th century. As an aside, the building to the left is apparently the site of King Alfred's Royal Palace.

And finally, so I can claim this post has at least something to do with lambsfoot knives this is my ironwood above the River Itchen, the river that flows through Winchester. Winchester was founded by the Roman's when they built a town next to the ford that crossed the Itchen.

If your a fisherman, you should know that people travel from far and wide to fish the chalk rivers of the south country and south west England. They are renowned for their clarity and purity and their trout (and salmon) fishing.
https://www.visit-hampshire.co.uk/explore/rivers-and-canals

So folks I hope you enjoyed my mini diversion from the doom n gloom. Winchester is a fine though remarkably small historic city that sits less than an hour to the west of London. It has more history than you can shake a stick at and some very fine (and very expensive) real ale pubs.

All the best.

David, thank you once again for a wonderful post. It’s great to have a visual as well as a mental break from the present day happenings!

 

[Half/Stop]

A good Wednesday morning to y’all! I hope and pray all my Guardian friends from around the world are well! I’m carrying one of my 2019 Ironwood Guardians SFO’s from Jack today!

 

[JohnDF]

John did you say "shop" , did you say "shop" , you got my heart racing and I run outside with no coat to take a pic of mine ... the snow is gone ... the door opens yeah

I'll have to take out the summer car tires and put them somewhere else and organize it ... maybe this weekend

Lambsfoot content ... my ebony is precariously hanging by the open door frame .... poor lamb ... the things I put him trough )

Very nice shop, Dan.
I can't wait to see pictures of things getting done in there. With warmer weather and "stay at home" orders, there's no reason we all have to sit in front of the TV all day. Let's all keep ourselves busy and productive... even if it's just for fun. I'll post some pics of mine when it's all set up.

 

[Modoc ED]

"Lil-un"

 

[Prester John]

John did you say "shop" , did you say "shop" , you got my heart racing and I run outside with no coat to take a pic of mine ... the snow is gone ... the door opens yeah

I'll have to take out the summer car tires and put them somewhere else and organize it ... maybe this weekend

Lambsfoot content ... my ebony is precariously hanging by the open door frame .... poor lamb ... the things I put him trough )

How much for that paper towel roll? Oh, sorry--no buying and selling here!

 

[Prester John]

In short, there's simply not
A more congenial spot
For happily-ever-aftering than here
In Camelot.

 

[CelloDan]

How much for that paper towel roll? Oh, sorry--no buying and selling here!

That’s one for the ages Vince
I better hide it before my wife finds it

 

[5K Qs]

Hello to all my fellow Guardians , and apologies for my absence. I've been trying to faithfully practice social distancing (no longer riding the city bus; I carried a meter stick at work (until we were shut down Monday at midnight) to remind the few people still showing up that we have standards to maintain; I held my breath while passing oncoming shopping carts in the grocery store yesterday), but I had no intention of applying the concept to Blade Forums in general or the Guardians thread in particular. Yet I think this is my first post in this thread in 2 weeks! Trying to figure out how to teach effectively online is eating up at least 2 extra hours per day, I'm still walking about an hour more per day than I did before giving up bus riding, and, surprisingly, I think I'm sleeping almost an hour more each night than I used to before pandemic edicts began being issued. So, although I've tried to keep up with at least reading my favorite BF threads, finding time to compose posts of my own (I'm a VERY slow writer ) has become more difficult.

So I'm not going to even attempt to remark on the MANY remarkable posts from the past 2-3 weeks. I'll just mention in passing some trends I've enjoyed.

First and foremost, of course, are the lambsfoot photos; I always enjoy seeing what knives folks are carrying, and often admire/envy the stellar photographic talents so many of you have.

Second, I always enjoy keeping up with what fellow Guardians are willing to share about their situations. It was great to see some updates from Modoc ED , and to see Dwight @Fodderwing and Greg @WhittlinAway check in recently. I also enjoyed all the photo "self-portraits" so many of you have shared recently! (I encourage you to also post them in the Mug Shots thread https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/traditional-mug-shots.1009881/) I don't have many recent photos of myself, but I did discover an ID card from when I was in grad school about 45 years ago:

Here's a photo that's fairly representative of my current appearance. My daughter took it 5 years ago as I rested on a bench outside the walls of the Alcázar in Sevilla, Spain. We wanted to enter that ancient royal palace, but ended up "circumnavigating" almost the entire wall that surrounds the grounds before we located the entrance.


Third, I enjoy the random cultural references that frequently pop up in this thread. Food, drink, music, movies, books, architecture, language/vocabulary, etc. are bonuses I never expected to find when I joined these Blade Forums! Speaking of music:

...
I like The Long Black Vail" on that one!

...

Thanks for the link, Dennis! One of my favorite songs, but I'm not sure why. Maybe because it promotes the idea that decisions have consequences, or because the song leaves so many questions about the "whole story", or because of the moral/ethical questions the song raises, or because of the twist on Jesus' biblical remark that "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." I've heard several duets of the song, but I think I first heard the song as performed by The Band, and I think my favorite version is by New Riders of the Purple Sage (love the pedal steel guitar!):

Speaking of New Riders of the Purple Sage, coincidentally last week I happened to listen to that band and Jerry Garcia performing "The Weight"; I also listened to The Band's version (well, actually several versions on YouTube). Great song, and thanks, Dave and Barrett, for posting the links to the song. Dave, I had never seen/heard the version you posted, and thought it was astounding; I also had all sorts of questions about how it was produced. And I agree that the song seems especially appropriate right now:
I picked up my bag, I went lookin' for a place to hide
When I saw Carmen and the Devil walkin' side by side
I said, hey, Carmen, come on let's go downtown
She said, "I gotta go, but my friend can stick around"
Certainly, we seem to have no place to hide during this pandemic, and I sure feel like Carmen's "friend" is sticking around!

This isn’t new but seems appropriate in these times.

...

Thanks for the video! I love that song, but hadn’t seen that version. Here’s another cover of it that I like.

...
That’s a great photo, Jack! If you’re allowed out of the house, you should take that stake with you; should help with “social distancing.”

Ain't that the truth??

Sorry Guardians,... I don't meant to brag,... but I believe that as of late I have been the "coolest" Guardian around.
...
...

Dan, I always enjoy, admire, and envy your "nature photos", especially as they come in a variety of series. The recent "Ice Capades" are outstanding, as were your vacation shots, bird shots, rodent shots, etc. I didn't post last week, but I carried my 2018 ebony Guardians lambsfoot SFO that I call Black Jack. Here's a belated photo of it, and, Dan, feel free to begin an insect and lambsfoot series!

...
Sausage butty in the sun.

That's a great spring photo, David!! Do you have so many plants already blooming, leaves sprouting, green grass? Really looking forward to that, but still probably a month away for me. We do have some crocuses out currently, that seem not at all discouraged by the 3 inches of snow we woke up to Monday morning!
I also enjoyed your Winchester photos (and screened porch Jer's allusion to the novelty hit from late 1966 ). When I saw what turned out to be the Round Table on the wall of Winchester Castle's Great Hall, I at first identified it as a massive royal dartboard!! (And you mentioned that Frisians were a group that invaded "the island". I didn't know that, and I have strong Frisian ancestry!)

Woody Allen's Bananas: "We're going to make an example of this, hep-cat."
I love where he's bound and gagged but still breaks down the witness with his cross-examination.

What a silly, and enjoyable, movie. I always enjoyed the "interpreter scene" at the airport, and of course the snake bite scenes.

...
It's a sunny day here, and I will be making a trip to the pharmacy this morning to pick up some new medication, which I'm hoping will put paid to my long-standing cough Take care Guardians
...

I'm hoping with you, Jack! It would be great if you could get rid of that cough!

This week, my lambsfoot is Cracker Jack, my Ashley's Choice model. I noticed that the ACs are showing up frequently this week:


- GT

 

[Prester John]

I don't have many recent photos of myself, but I did discover an ID card from when I was in grad school about 45 years ago:

Here's a photo that's fairly representative of my current appearance. My daughter took it 5 years ago as I rested on a bench outside the walls of the Alcázar in Sevilla, Spain. We wanted to enter that ancient royal palace, but ended up "circumnavigating" almost the entire wall that surrounds the grounds before we located the entrance.

You haven't changed a bit, Gary!

 

[screened porch]

When I saw Carmen and the Devil walkin' side by side

I always heard that as "Carmen and Adele". I wondered what the singer was complaining about- Carmen gives him Adele, old Luke gives him young Anna Lee...