Guided or Freehand sharpening...

[Cookie87]

That is the question!:
So i am here again, 93 days later ive still not placed an order for a Guided system.

I decided on the Kadet, it went out of stock, swapped over to the Hapstone R2 black, then i was in a massive debate on the stones - as a total beginner i was reluctant to buy the Premium CBN's but then was like man, buy once cry once.

Well i was about to pull the trigger and buy it




But then im like damn, do i wanna spend a grand to sharpen my low end kitchen knives!?

More digging and talking to others, i am now back at square one.

Should i just get Atoma Diamond plates and free hand, albeit, ive tried for a year and failed at freehand with my whetstones.

Or should i consider the RS and some Carbide stones?

I am in the UK so i really dont need to be chasing mirrors on them sexy EDC's as we simply dont have a big market over here, so ill be working on kitchen knives mainly.

can someone please help me make sense of this minefield.

I WILL be investing in some decent kitchen knives and a CR EDC, i dont plan on working on others knives but i will do friends and families once im Ok...,

 

[Old Biker]

I use a hapstone V 8 with a set of 3 CKTG diamond plates. I feel the magnetic table of the V 8 is more versatile than a clamp system. Especially when it comes to large blades, think 10 in chef's knife, or small blades, think secondary blades on a slip joint. But if you're more comfortable with clamps, then get clamps. Diamond plates are cheap. About $10 apiece. If you're just sharpening standard steels aluminum oxide stones work fine. But the diamond plates cost less, work on any steel, and at least for me having lasted longer than the aluminum oxide stones. The chefs knives to go set is 120, 400, and 1000 grit. The 1000 grit is about 15 microns. Other retailers sell similar sets.

O.B.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Do you have dexterity or coordination problems (in other aspects of life) that would prevent you from freehand sharpening? If not it's probably an equipment or technique issue.

I think your goals are probably better served by freehand sharpening, and I say this as someone who has been using a guided sharpener for almost fifteen years.

p.s. auto-correct is always funny lol

 

[Guy McVer]

damn, do i wanna spend a grand to sharpen my low end kitchen knives!?

Only you can answer that, but I can certainly tell you that you don't need to. And I can give you my opinion, which is that you shouldn't spend that much, especially on equipment that locks you into a "system" and discourages you from learning a useful skill.

People have spent thousands of years sharpening knives by hand and doing just fine at it. They were able to produce shaving sharp edges without the assistance of any silly extraneous equipment. Be very skeptical of anyone who is trying to advocate the use of any type of gadgets. The simple truth is that you don't need them. You can get by with a few very budget friendly, very simple, very basic things. You don't need to use any special equipment to get good results, and you don't need to examine your edges under an electron microscope to find a microscopic burr that's impossible to see or feel. None of that matters and it never did.

You will find a lot of people on here advocating that you should buy this or that. I personally have been told that everyone should have a microscope. My opinion is that you should ignore those people. They're full of baloney, and there is a sucker born every minute. As you have discovered, there is a lot of money in this stuff, and so you should always be wary and guard your wallet.

 

[TheOne45]

But then im like damn, do i wanna spend a grand to sharpen my low end kitchen knives!?

You actually don't need expensive sharpening system and expensive exotic stones.
I don't have any fancy stuff and all my knives and my friends knives are sharp.
Do you have restrictions in UK to buy from Aliexpress?

 

[Cookie87]

I use a hapstone V 8 with a set of 3 CKTG diamond plates. I feel the magnetic table of the V 8 is more versatile than a clamp system. Especially when it comes to large blades, think 10 in chef's knife, or small blades, think secondary blades on a slip joint. But if you're more comfortable with clamps, then get clamps. Diamond plates are cheap. About $10 apiece. If you're just sharpening standard steels aluminum oxide stones work fine. But the diamond plates cost less, work on any steel, and at least for me having lasted longer than the aluminum oxide stones. The chefs knives to go set is 120, 400, and 1000 grit. The 1000 grit is about 15 microns. Other retailers sell similar sets.

O.B.

Thank you Old Biker.
So are you saying these expensive abrasives are not really needed, or is it a case of they come into their own when you are chasing scratch patterns and mirrors?

 

[Cookie87]

Do you have dexterity or coordination problems (in other aspects of life) that would prevent you from freehand sharpening? If not it's probably an equipment or technique issue.

I think your goals are probably better served by freehand sharpening, and I say this as someone who has been using a guided sharpener for almost fifteen years.

p.s. auto-correct is always funny lol

I hear you.
No, not really, i am pretty dextrous in most things to be fair. I do however only have Amazon cheapish stones and cheap knives were used.

What guided system do you have?

 

[Grasshopperglock]

Guilded sharpener is like grinding metal on a milling machine. The edges are perfect.

Sharpening free hand is like using a hand file instead of a milling machine. It's only as good as your coordination.

Free hand takes years to master. Muscle memory earned. A guided system will take about 20 knives before you'll get the hang of it.


Price? Have you ever experienced an ultimate edge? Beyond anything you've ever experienced? Well, do you want to?

It'll be $1205.00.

(I have the TSProf and have about $1700 tied up in mine. Still looking to get yet another clamp. So add another $100)

 

[Cookie87]

Only you can answer that, but I can certainly tell you that you don't need to. And I can give you my opinion, which is that you shouldn't spend that much, especially on equipment that locks you into a "system" and discourages you from learning a useful skill.

People have spent thousands of years sharpening knives by hand and doing just fine at it. They were able to produce shaving sharp edges without the assistance of any silly extraneous equipment. Be very skeptical of anyone who is trying to advocate the use of any type of gadgets. The simple truth is that you don't need them. You can get by with a few very budget friendly, very simple, very basic things. You don't need to use any special equipment to get good results, and you don't need to examine your edges under an electron microscope to find a microscopic burr that's impossible to see or feel. None of that matters and it never did.

You will find a lot of people on here advocating that you should buy this or that. I personally have been told that everyone should have a microscope. My opinion is that you should ignore those people. They're full of baloney, and there is a sucker born every minute. As you have discovered, there is a lot of money in this stuff, and so you should always be wary and guard your wallet.

Thank you dude, most helpfull.
However... just makes me desicison making so much tougher hahah.

 

[Cookie87]

You actually don't need expensive sharpening system and expensive exotic stones.
I don't have any fancy stuff and all my knives and my friends knives are sharp.
Do you have restrictions in UK to buy from Aliexpress?

Nope, i can buy from there. and AliBaba and Temu

 

[Cookie87]

Guilded sharpener is like grinding metal on a milling machine. The edges are perfect.

Sharpening free hand is like using a hand file instead of a milling machine. It's only as good as your coordination.

Free hand takes years to master. Muscle memory earned. A guided system will take about 20 knives before you'll get the hang of it.


Price? Have you ever experienced an ultimate edge? Beyond anything you've ever experienced? Well, do you want to?

It'll be $1205.00.

(I have the TSProf and have about $1700 tied up in mine. Still looking to get yet another clamp. So add another $100)

this makes sense, Freehand is a skill that will take a period of time to master and a skill that is never completed.
A Guided system is that... it takes away the guessing and learning the art of freehand


What TSProf you got?

 

[Grasshopperglock]

this makes sense, Freehand is a skill that will take a period of time to master and a skill that is never completed.
A Guided system is that... it takes away the guessing and learning the art of freehand


What TSProf you got?

The K03.

The bigger ticket items are CBN stones. Five stones from 240, 400, 600, 1000, and 2000. Plain diamond is more affordable. You really only need three, 220, 400, and 600. Grits below 220 are for chip removal or heavy reprofiling. Like 50 and 150.

Grits above 2000 are for the Japanese kitchen knives. There's no good reason to take a blade on a pocket knife past 2000.

This is something you'll need to piecemeal. Adding on as you get more experience.

 

[Kryme]

Damn that's a lotta money.

I personally reprofile on a KME with diamond stones and maintain on a fine ceramic+strop. Even that is kinda excessive, for the longest time I was keeping all my stuff shaving sharp with a Falkniven DC4 and a home made strop. You really don't need much, as G Grasshopperglock , there's hardly any point going over 2000 functionally speaking. I actually don't go over 1200 because I like more bite in my edge.

 

[Grasshopperglock]

1000 and 2000 are a polish.

1000 will look cloudy. 2000 takes that out. 3 micron diamond emulsion on a strop and it's a mirror. Well, mirror enough to your bare eyeball.

And only a hand full of steels like a polished edge. Lc200n, s30v...

 

[garry3]

Kitchen knives are the easiest to learn on and you should be able to get good results fairly quickly free hand. With the money you save you can buy better knives.

 

[Grasshopperglock]

I have the greatest respect for the free hand guys that can form the apex of the blade point right.

The edge is sharp, that's great! But how about the tippy tip? Where three angles combine to make the point. Is everything square with the world? Or is it washed out?

Smooth transition from edge to apex.

 

[garry3]

Guilded sharpener is like grinding metal on a milling machine. The edges are perfect.

Sharpening free hand is like using a hand file instead of a milling machine. It's only as good as your coordination.

Free hand takes years to master. Muscle memory earned. A guided system will take about 20 knives before you'll get the hang of it.


Price? Have you ever experienced an ultimate edge? Beyond anything you've ever experienced? Well, do you want to?

It'll be $1205.00.

(I have the TSProf and have about $1700 tied up in mine. Still looking to get yet another clamp. So add another $100)

 

[Grasshopperglock]

How old are you?

Anyway. Enjoy the thread. I'm out.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

You can learn the fundamentals using an inexpensive guide. For kitchen knives in particular, DMT's Aligner clamp can be used with any bench stone and larger blades are well suited to it. Invest some money in a bench stone of known good quality - that is most important - and then the clamp will only cost you $15 or so. And used with the bench stone, the clamp allows you to emulate the sweeping passes used in freehand sharpening on bench stones and you can acquire some feel for that as you go. That's what I used in transitioning from guided sharpening to freehand when I chose to commit to it for good and it helped me make the jump.

 

[chalby]

If you have the determination to learn freehand, it's not as hard as it seems right now. Just persevere, take your time and make sure you are getting the fundamentals right. There are a thousand different techniques that people successfully use, so just try to find a way that works for you. You will be surprised at how quickly you pick it up if you are determined. Check out some youtube videos for tips and pointers. Some sort of cheap magnifying glass or jewellers loupe may help give you some insight if you are struggling; maybe you have the sharpening angle wrong or whatever. You can use a sharpie for further reference. After a while you won't need these but they can help give you information about what you are doing right and wrong initially.

Guided systems have their place, but especially something that can handle larger kitchen knives it will be expensive as you have seen. IMO, a simple freehand setup is worth the longer learning curve. It will be more versatile and much cheaper until you discover you have found a new hobby and you start buying stones and other gear you don't need lol.