Guided or Freehand sharpening...

Thank you Old Biker.
So are you saying these expensive abrasives are not really needed, or is it a case of they come into their own when you are chasing scratch patterns and mirrors?
No they are not needed. I assume the bonded diamond or CBN stones will last longer. But I have been using my Diamond plates for somewhere between 5 and 10 years, I have yet to wear them out. My coarsest stone (140 grit) is starting to dull, so I bought another set, Then found I already had a spare 140 grit. It'll be a while before I need to buy any more stones.

O.B.
 
I have been freehand sharpening for 30+years. I recently picked up an edge pro. I have always been able to get a knife shaving sharp, but never a polished finish. Now I can do both. I am still repairing tips on my bench stones, and quick touchups. But the heavy reprofiling is being done on the guided system.
 
I finally learned to freehand sharpen when I had a decent stone and just made myself go through it. I watched some videos - the point is to hold the plane of your knife at a constant angle and move back and forth on the stone. The differences in technique are just the preferred motions of the individual sharpener.
In the US you can get a working set for less than $30 - a two sided diamond stone with holder and a two sided paddle strop with two stropping compounds. That will handle any steel you have. It won't handle chip repairs or reprofiling. Those cheap diamond stones will last a while if you don't put too much pressure on them.
So for me, I'd learn with a cheap knife and a low cost stone.

For $1000 I could get two full (not complete) sets of very good Japanese water stones as well as a diamond flattening plate, just to put your original cost into perspective.
 
I finally learned to freehand sharpen when I had a decent stone and just made myself go through it. I watched some videos - the point is to hold the plane of your knife at a constant angle ...

I did the same thing last year. I'm in my 60s and after messing with fiddly, finicky PITA guided systems for decades, I finally decided I was gonna learn freehand if it was the last thing I do.

I started with a couple of 8" x 3" double-sided Norton oilstones (India which is AlOx and Crystolon which is SiC -- you can find these for about $35 each) and spent maybe an hour or so every day for a few weeks freehand sharpening all the knives in the house. I also watched a lot of YT videos, particularly from users "Burrfection" and "OUTDOORS55" which helped a lot.

For me, it didn't "take years" to get the hang of it. It took maybe a month to develop the "muscle memory" to get all our knives close to "push through paper" sharp.

I later added a couple of good DMT diamond stones to the arsenal: A 10" double sided Dia-Sharp (~325 and 600 grits which will cover 90% of what you need) and an 8" 1200 grit.
These diamond plates are good for super steels. The main drawback of diamond plates, for me, is that you really shouldn't "bear down" on them with a lot of pressure if you want to remove a lot of metal faster. So I do that on the Norton oilstones. I also made a strop from MDF and green jeweller's rouge, which is also good for touch-ups and for removing the burr.

My takeaways from all of this:

1. Start with a coarse enough stone to get results in a reasonable amount of time. The stones I had that I struggled with for years were too fine grit, so I "gave up" in frustration before I ever got a burr, assuming (incorrectly) that the problem was my technique rather than not having a coarse-enough stone. You need to raise a burr, and you can do so a lot faster on a coarser stone. If it takes 1000 strokes on a fine stone versus 30 strokes on a coarse stone to raise a burr, that means you need to hold a consistent angle for 33 times as long on a fine stone -- and you'll have 33 times as many opportunities to screw it up by holding an inconsistent bevel angle on just one out of those eleventy-bajillion strokes. I once worried about coarse stones wearing out my knives faster, but now I worry about all the time I wasted using stones that weren't coarse enough. You can always buy another knife...time, not so much. (I also realized that even a coarse stone removes metal a lot slower than you often want or would expect, particularly when you're trying to remove enough metal to get past a nick. Now I use a belt sander for that.)

2. Guided systems are too much of a PITA for me to find, dig out, unbox, set up, and jack around with to do "touch ups" regularly, which is key to keeping knives sharp. So I didn't. Now that I have the muscle memory to do it freehand, it's no big deal to grab a stone off the shelf and spend 2 minutes touching up a knife, even in the middle of cooking. (Regular practice will also keep your muscle memory maintained.) If I just want to very lightly touch up an edge, I use a pair of "crock sticks" which are "kind of" guided but nowhere nearly as complex as most jigs.

3. I'll never get as close to "geometric perfection" doing it freehand as I might with a guided system. But I do get our knives plenty sharp for whatever jobs we want them to do, and I do it without having to shut down the kitchen table for a multi-year highway construction project. I also get a lot more personal satisfaction out of freehand sharpening than I ever got with guided jigs, since any monkey can do it on a jig, but it takes some skill to do it freehand. It takes a little bit of time to learn, but after that I suspect it's like riding a bike -- a lifelong skill.

My only regret is that I didn't invest the time to learn freehand sharpening decades ago. (I did the same thing with touch-typing.) YMMV and good luck with whatever you decide.
 
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Currently debating on dipping my toes in the freehand pool. I have a guided system that I get great results with. I fear with my personality the dip will turn into a cannon ball very quickly.
 
If I did dip in, I have an atoma 400 (used for flattening) and a spyderco fine stone. I also have a course/fine Arkansas stone.

What would be my next purchase? I was think a atoma 1200 to follow up from the 400 and finish on the spyderco.

Of course this would be to start the learning. Thoughts please.
 
I’ve used both methods.

My strong preference for my EDC folders and field fixed blades is hand sharpening on Shapton Glass stones (500, 1000, then 6000 grit), followed by light stropping. I can take a knife from fairly dull to very sharp in about 10 minutes, including the time to soak the stones. I know it can seem intimidating, but if you just watch a few youtube videos, use the sharpie trick, and practice on a cheap knife, you’ll get the hang of it quickly. Once you do it’ll be a lot faster than a sharpening system as set up takes almost no time. It’s also really satisfying.

For my full flat kitchen knives, I use an Apex Edge Pro, mostly because I have it, they all get cut at the same angle, and I don’t want to wear down the shapton stones for these knives. I mitigate set up time by doing the whole set of four at one time.
 
Personally, I feel like it was a lot easier to master the freehand system than the Edge Pro. I think either the perfectly constant angle thing is over rated or I have remarkable muscle memory. I lean toward the former being more true.

I will say if you freehand, get good stones. I love my Shaptons. They cut very quickly.
 
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If I did dip in, I have an atoma 400 (used for flattening) and a spyderco fine stone. I also have a course/fine Arkansas stone.

What would be my next purchase? I was think a atoma 1200 to follow up from the 400 and finish on the spyderco.

Of course this would be to start the learning. Thoughts please.
I use Norton Crystolon in medium mostly and fine India as a progression to the Arks.
It's worth buying the Nortons over the cheaper versions found in hardware stores, they are not expensive stones. The India's are hard stones that don't shed grit like the Crystolon stone, so they make cleaner apexes but are not as fast as the Crystolon.
Oil stones aren't for everyone but if you already have the arks it's a good combination, they go together like PB&J.
 
I only sharpen on diamonds.
I have 3 large DIY diamond table stones #320, #600 and #1000.... cheap diamond plates glued to plywood.
I also have two sets of diamond stones for both of my DIY sharpening systems. One set are cheap diamond plates on plastic bases and the other set is DIY - cheap thin diamond plates on home made aluminium bases.
I also have four DIY big freehand strops and six strops for my guided systems- thin leather glued on home made plexi bases.
So, far from fancy shapton glass, poltava, expensive DMT plates, exotic japan stones and similar. I only have very low cost equipment.
Lately I enjoy sharpening on my modified cheap $5 folding diamond sharpener. I can sharpen all my knives I have on this small thing.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/15bW9N9j69Pmfqtf0MRiQFvP2LKhd1vwd/view?usp=drivesdk

I know those cheap stones and home made strops I have are not capable to sharpen my knives the proper way... the way they should be sharpened.
Well, my knives are cutting toilet paper and paper towels but I bet my edges would be way better if I had more expensive stones.
Here is my poor attempt to cut toilet paper:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13yrz1t7DJCQLSiXAsZQYWd-QPttKSfxc/view?usp=drivesdk

I am tired of this cheap low quality equipment I have. I am tempted to invest in serious sharpening stones. I would like to have stones used by experienced sharpeners and I would like to raise my edges to another level.
I would like to push cut toilet paper 90/90 degrees cross fibers.
 
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For you guys that want to start free hand sharpening I want to encourage you to switch hands and watch the edge of the blade on the stone, depending on how much bevel is there you can also develop a feel. It's not the way I normally sharpen because I have been doing it the other way so long but it's rock solid. If you can't switch hands, it's not a deal breaker your ceiling is the same height, it's just easier if you can switch hands.

I'm not saying to raise the stone but you can get the idea here...

This guy is going more by feel and faster but he's pretty advanced, slow down and use both feel and vision.
 
For you guys that want to start free hand sharpening I want to encourage you to switch hands and watch the edge of the blade on the stone, depending on how much bevel is there you can also develop a feel.
Have you tried setting up a mirror in front of you, behind the sharpening stone, rather than switching hands?
 
I hear you.
No, not really, i am pretty dextrous in most things to be fair. I do however only have Amazon cheapish stones and cheap knives were used.

What guided system do you have?
You said, cheap knives were used. I've sharpened some "cheap knives" for relatives and when they are the knife sets you find in box stores that sell everything, they are probably too cheap for you to learn on. They really are a waste of time, too frustrating too get sharp, take too much time, wear out your stones, and you won't learn anything because you will be fighting with terrible knives that are hard to sharpen and don't stay sharp long. I actually bought a DMT extra course just for these knives that shouldn't even be sold to the public. Find yourself a decent knife, maybe a high carbon steel or one with a high carbon stainless steel you will find on a list of common knife steels. It can be an inexpensive steel but if you find it on a list of steels, you have something good to learn on.

I learned years before there were videos and only some books to reference. It took me a while using a hard and soft Arkansas stone. Even before that in Viet Nam, I was sharpening my Puma and others KaBars with nothing but a two sided Carborundum stone using machine gun oil to lubricate it. Don't buy one :)

Decent kitchen knives, not Japanese knives that require different stones) are not that hard to get sharp. Here is one thing to consider. How sharp do you want them. I've found that when I really put some time into certain kitchen knives and really refine that edge to an impressive degree, I have what I call a "gotcha knife" and warn others in the house who may use it. What that means is that if that edge so much as touches you, even very lightly, go get a band aid. It will cut. Kitchen knives don't need to be that sharp for most of us. You really do want some margin for error when you get a bit careless and the knife touches you. It happens from time to time. My wife never likes it when I'd sharpen her knives, since she would cut herself too often. I like mine sharp, but like only one or two to be gotcha sharp. You "can" do this free hand yourself and it won't take you all that long. I say, all that long, but to me, it is enjoyable time, relaxing and therapeutic. Others here have already recommended Outdoors55's vidoes. For me, it's only recently that I've come to appreciate what he is sharing with us, especially when it comes to sharpening stones and equipment.

Look for the kitchen knife steel on a chart. Here is one chart randomly picked that includes many steels that are suitable. So many of the cheap sets use unknown, cheap steel that isn't worth the money spent on them.

 
Have you tried setting up a mirror in front of you, behind the sharpening stone, rather than switching hands?
No, I haven't but I think it's a great idea.

I learned how to switch hands much, much later in life. So, I always revert back to one handed it will always be faster for me.
 
I learned how to switch hands much, much later in life. So, I always revert back to one handed it will always be faster for me.

Switching hands is probably more symmetrical for those with ambidextrous mastery, but I think not switching hands will always be faster, especially for muddy stones unless you are OK with mud-staining the handle or do a full cling-wrap handle protection every time.
 
1. Start with a coarse enough stone to get results in a reasonable amount of time. The stones I had that I struggled with for years were too fine grit, so I "gave up" in frustration before I ever got a burr, assuming (incorrectly) that the problem was my technique rather than not having a coarse-enough stone. You need to raise a burr, and you can do so a lot faster on a coarser stone. If it takes 1000 strokes on a fine stone versus 30 strokes on a coarse stone to raise a burr, that means you need to hold a consistent angle for 33 times as long on a fine stone -- and you'll have 33 times as many opportunities to screw it up by holding an inconsistent bevel angle on just one out of those eleventy-bajillion strokes.

This matches my own experience except that I don't really try to raise a burr on my coarsest stones. I summarized my approach here: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/easier-freehand-sharpening.1726451/
 
I am in the freehand camp. I started with a Spyderco Sharpmaker and now learning how to use benchstones. I watched a few videos and learned some of the basics. I can get a satisfactory edge using ceramic benchstones.
 
I use Norton Crystolon in medium mostly and fine India as a progression to the Arks.
...
Oil stones aren't for everyone but if you already have the arks it's a good combination, they go together like PB&J.

I had always wanted a translucent or super-dense hard black Arkansas and recently found a really nice 8x3 Preyda hard black Arkansas at an online woodworking supplier for something like $62 delivered and I love that stone. Its specific gravity turned out to be 2.77 so it was even "better" than advertised.

I can go from a 600 grit diamond plate (or even one of my Norton combo oilstones) straight to that hard black Ark and it makes knives crazy sharp!
 
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