Guided sharpening system - which one?

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It looks like Hapstone have released a new clamp that they call Opti:

Not sure if Gritomatic have this in stock and concidering the situation in Ukraine I guess it will be very hard to get your hands on it, if Gritomatic don't have it in stock already.

Yep, Gritomatic have them in stock -

 
Have you used them? How are they compared to the small clamps? Are you able to get down to a lower angle with them?
Hi T Tobias_N ,

I have not had the pleasure of using a pair of them yet. When I do, I'll post about it. I hope to receive a set within the next week or two.
 


It looks like Hapstone have released a new clamp that they call Opti:

This clamp looks like it's thinner and might therefore be able to get a lower angle, then the standard clamp?
Not sure if Gritomatic have this in stock and concidering the situation in Ukraine I guess it will be very hard to get your hands on it, if Gritomatic don't have it in stock already.

Have you used them? How are they compared to the small clamps? Are you able to get down to a lower angle with them?

I have now received and extensively tried out a set of Opti Clamps. Honestly, I would only recommend these clamps for very specific knives, they are not all-round general use clamps at all. The very specific geometry of the cutout that Hapstone designed for these clamps are very specialised. They only work well with a thick spined, full flat grind and that's about it. When a knife has the right geometry for these clamps, they work very well. For most thinner, full flat grinds do not clamp securely in them, so most Spyderco-type FFG grinds won't work in these clamps. Most kitchen knives also won't clamp well in them.

I stick by my recommendation of the normal Hapstone angled clamps as the most versatile clamps, and the "Lite" clamps as the best whole-milled all-round clamps for the money. With those two types of clamps, you can sharpen just about any knife.
 
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I have now received and extensively tried out a set of Opti Clamps. Honestly, I would only recommend these clamps for very specific knives, they are not all-round general use clamps at all. The very specific geometry of the cutout that Hapstone designed for these clamps are very specialised. They only work well with a thick spined, full flat grind and that's about it. When a knife has the right geometry for these clamps, they work very well. For most thinner, full flat grinds do not clamp securely in them, so most Spyderco-type FFG grinds won't work in these clamps. Most kitchen knives also won't clamp well in them.

I stick by my recommendation of the normal Hapstone angled clamps as the most versatile clamps, and the "Lite" clamps as the best whole-milled all-round clamps. With those two types of clamps, you can sharpen just about any knife.
Thanks for the report, I'm glad that i didnt get those clamps instead of the Lite ones then.

I recently bought the Hapstone R2 with the angled and Lite clamps, together with a Venev Centaur kit, based on your recommendation. I have not had the time to test it properly yet but the little I have used it I can for sure say its a very nicely designed piece of kit.
 
Thanks for the report, I'm glad that i didnt get those clamps instead of the Lite ones then.

I recently bought the Hapstone R2 with the angled and Lite clamps, together with a Venev Centaur kit, based on your recommendation. I have not had the time to test it properly yet but the little I have used it I can for sure say its a very nicely designed piece of kit.
Be very interested to hear your impression when have have given it a good work out.
 
Okay, after I received my shipment from Gritomatic on Monday I already did some tests with the Hapstone R2 and here my first impressions:

- The overall manufacturing quality of the Hapstone R2, its components and accessories is really good. Everything makes a stable and trustworthy impression. The products are also nicely packed when they arrive.
- Using the Hapstone R2 is quite intuitive and means no problem at all, even for a rookie like me considering such a system.
- Sharpening knives with such a guided system is completely different than sharpening freehand on stones, but I neither feel it is much slower nor more difficult, just the opposite. I need for a knife more or less the same time and the result is definitely better, at least regarding an even edge and achieved sharpness.
- The both angled standard clamps in my standard version work great and there is no real need until now to get additional clamps, at least not when sharpening knives up to 180 mm length.
- The optional scissor module works also great, while not really expensive, and is definitely a nice accessory to have.
- The Venev Centaur stone set works fine and can provide a nice and shiny edge. Until now I barely had the need to use the 80 grit stone and also the 800 grit stone seems to be sufficient for finishing a knife.

Until now I do not see any real obstacles or problems with the system, just a few areas where I need to get used to or which could potentially be improved:
- The Venev Centaur stones are double-sided stones, means they do not have the aluminum base with the bevels at the end. While they still can be fixed stable enough in the stone holder they nevertheless can tilt if you are not careful and pay attention. Also, when you then want to use a stone / strop with a beveled aluminum base you need to adjust the stoner holder for the different length.
- The fine tuning adapter is overall great, but in my opinion the thread is too smooth-running, means it doesn't hold its position during sharpening. No problem when sharpening, as you normally fix the stone holder, but if the adapter would stay in place you would have additional security that your angle doesn't change.
- The Digital Angle Gauge from Gritomatic is a little sluggish, doesn't continuously show exactly the changing values.

So my very first impression is definitely positive. I will do now more tests, sharpen different knives and try to learn all the necessary basics, especially how to clamp different knives. Most likely some experience is also needed with such a system. I will also check if I need potentially additional clamps, maybe in a different form, to clamp securely different knives.

Another thinking from my side: Sharpening most kitchen knives works great with my Shapton Glass stones, normally no need for diamond stones. I have seen there are Shapton Glass stones available for Edge Pro, means I also could use them with the Hapstone R2. Maybe I give them also a try, a set of 500, 2000, 6000 and 16000 would most likely cover all my needs in here. The diamond stones are definitely necessary when sharpening pocket knives with higher grade steels, no doubt about that.

Herbert
 
Glad you like it Herbert, it is a great system.

Some tips - Stick a strip of rubberised tape (like Gorilla crystal clear tape) on the ends of your dual sided (non- dovetail backed) stones. This makes for a very nice grippy surface for the stone clamps.

Regarding the fine tuner - it is not meant to stay in position, it is just merely a method of adjusting your angle very accurately so always rely on your angle cube when using it. FYI, I have some Plastic 3D printed fine tuning adapters for all sharpening systems that Gritomatic will soon be selling. Thos will hold the position better than the steel ones.

I have a set of Shapton Glass in Edge Pro format, and even though they are nice, they are pretty much redundant when you have a set of Venev stones (like you do). The Venev stones work well on any steel.

Tip for any knife clamps - clamp one of the clamps on a flat section of the blade (like the ricasso / tang), and the other clamp closer towards the tip of the blade (an inch or two away). With this method, you can very securely clamp 99 out of 100 knives.
 
I haven't received my R1 yet, by I would assume that once you achieve the desired angle with the fine tuning adjuster you would then tighten down the rod screw for a secure set up. No?
 
My guess is that Shapton glass and stones like it will get wore down pretty fast as they are so small compared to a regular whetstone?

I haven't received my R1 yet, by I would assume that once you achieve the desired angle with the fine tuning adjuster you would then tighten down the rod screw for a secure set up. No?
Correct.
 
I haven't received my R1 yet, by I would assume that once you achieve the desired angle with the fine tuning adjuster you would then tighten down the rod screw for a secure set up. No?
Yes, correct. Exactly the same method as with the R2.

Just remember to use your angle cube again and readjust when swapping stones. Always take it into consideration and re-check the angle when swapping stones.

Tip - always measure your angles in the center in the blade, and with the center of the stone on the center of the blade. Always on the same side, don't adjust angles every time you flip 180 degrees because knife grinds are not always 100% symmetrical.

I typically start with the knife handle facing my right side, I measure as mentioned above and I only measure again (with my handle facing right again) when I change stones or strops.

Always do your measurements in the same spot, and make sure your angle cube is not askew. (In other words, always have your cube squared with an imaginary line drawn along the tips of the clamps)
 
Hope you don't mind if I ask some additional questions regarding this topic:
I already owe a "Suehiro Nagura Stone" with a grit of 1,000. Would that stone work for cleaning? Or would you recommend another stone?
I only find one King Japanese Nagura Stone in Amazon, but it has a grit of 8,000. Would that be the correct stone?
Do I need different grits for the cleaning stone(s), considering the different grits of my Venev stones?

Herbert
I prefer to use Bar Keepers Friend in the Gold Canister to clean all of my stones and it's cheap.

For refreshing the Venev stones use 60 grit silicon carbide powder then move to 120 and 400 to finish,I just the powder mixed with a bit of water on a peace of glass.

To find the powders at gritomatic just type in powder in their search bar and it will come up.
 
Glad you like it Herbert, it is a great system.
Thanks a lot again for all your tips, tricks, and advice, I really appreciate it.

The R2 is definitely a game changer for me, considering my still only basic capabilities in free hand sharpening! Today I did some more of my kitchen knives (VG10) and the sharpness I can achieve is definitely great and better than everything I got until now free hand. I still need some more practice, especially when sharpening the tip, trying to get an absolutely even scratch pattern, and also getting a little faster, but the results today have already been quite encouraging. Another important aspect, at least for me: I like to do the sharpening with the R2, it also has something relaxing to it.

Also, the edges I can produce already with the Venev stones look really great, so most likely no need to get the Shapton Glass stones. Most likely I will now also need to understand how to flatten my stones at one point in time and that should be it. Nevertheless I will most likely go for the Venev Orion stones as soon as I need new ones, I simply like the aluminum bases with bevel. Maybe I will even order the Orion stones quite soon, who knows how long they will still be available, considering this terrible war and the resulting sanctions for Russian business.

Herbert
 
I prefer to use Bar Keepers Friend in the Gold Canister to clean all of my stones and it's cheap.

For refreshing the Venev stones use 60 grit silicon carbide powder then move to 120 and 400 to finish,I just the powder mixed with a bit of water on a peace of glass.

To find the powders at gritomatic just type in powder in their search bar and it will come up.
I already had read about using Bar Keepers Friend for cleaning the stones, so I purchased the powder and use it for cleaning. It works great, and as you mentioned, its easy and cheap!

The grit progression you stated for refreshing the Venev stones, do you use it for all different grit stones the same way? Also, I assume the glass plate should be as flat as possible, right? Definitely something I need to check!

Herbert
 
I already had read about using Bar Keepers Friend for cleaning the stones, so I purchased the powder and use it for cleaning. It works great, and as you mentioned, its easy and cheap!

The grit progression you stated for refreshing the Venev stones, do you use it for all different grit stones the same way? Also, I assume the glass plate should be as flat as possible, right? Definitely something I need to check!

Herbert

The new binder in the Venev stones do not really affect sharpening scratch pattern, only size the diamonds inside the binder does.

This means that you could effectively flatten all of them (when you need to one day) with only 1 coarse-ish grit of silicon carbide.

Silicon carbide abrades the binder fast enough for easy flattening, and does not overly affect the final scratch pattern of the stone much (due to the binder not being abrasive).

Yes, the finer stones feel smoother to the touch when using finer grit silicon carbide or aluminum oxide, but it does not really improve performance. That slightly "rough" feel to the stones after using coarse silicon carbide, dissipates in only a short time sharpening.

If a sharpening stone has a very abrasive and very hard binder, (or with some Natural stones) then it's more critical to use fine flattening powder for a finer stone. With the new generation Venev stones, not so much.
 
and also getting a little faster
Please don't, it leads to breaks in concentration and mistakes, i've been sharpening for well over 50 years, had sharpening business at one stage, and i'm still making mistakes through lack of concentration, usually through rushing. Unless you're doing it for a living, just take your time, you only have a certain amount to sharpen. Also, take breaks when you need to and then go back to it.
 
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Please don't, it leads to breaks in concentration and mistakes, i've been sharpening for well over 50 years, had sharpening business at one stage, and i'm still making mistakes through lack of concentration, usually through rushing. Unless you're doing it for a living, just take your time, you only have a certain amount to sharpen. Also, take breaks when you need to and then go back to it.
I can relate to that. Especially with free handing, there are just days when I'm not feeling it. Like, I'm literally not feeling the contact of the bevel with the stone to maintain a consistent angle. Best to just put it aside at that point.
 
Please don't, it leads to breaks in concentration and mistakes, i've been sharpening for well over 50 years, had sharpening business at one stage, and i'm still making mistakes through lack of concentration, usually through rushing. Unless you're doing it for a living, just take your time, you only have a certain amount to sharpen. Also, take breaks when you need to and then go back to it.
I totally agree, thanks for the advice.

In my case I refer to “faster“ especially considering the experience
- how to clamp the knives, right now it’s still a little bit trying to find the right position
- how many passes I need with the next finer grit to get a nice and even scratch pattern
- when to clean the stones
- and so on
means all these little details that also consume time.

The sharpening process itself I will not speed up, for example by faster movements or more pressure. I already learned that makes no sense!

Herbert
 
Just received my set of Venev Orions and I've got to say I'm disappointed in the QC. The thickness of the diamond layers isn't very consistent. More significantly, the F80 stone I received was nowhere near flat. The blank itself was warped, and the diamond layer right along with it. I was going to send it back, but then I noticed that the diamond layer is 4mm thick on that stone, versus the 3mm they're supposed to be. So I figured I might as well lap it flat, since I'll still have more than 3mm of diamonds even after I remove a lot of material.
 
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