Hall Handmade

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ksbladeguy

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Hi all, and hope someone can help me.

I placed an order with Ian the beginning of this year after a great and long conversation with him. He was very nice and knowledgeable. I paid him $1200 for 3 knifes and some Koa blanks. As time passed on I asked about my status of the knifes and I never got any images of my work. It has now been 10 months and counting and so on September 15th I messaged Ian that It was not working our and I would like my money back and cancel the orders I had with him. (When we first talk he said that at any time I could always cancel my order if the time for his work was too long for me to wait and that he would not have any hard feelings.) He said he was leaving for his honeymoon day after tomorrow and wound address this further the following week. September 26th I message him again and said since you are back can I get my refund. He said that it would be ~ 72 hours from tomorrow he could do that for me (if he is able to make it to his bank, which he believed he would be able to).

October 6th rolls by and again I message him and he tells me the funds are in place and ready to go. He tells me that after printing a large sum of shipping labels he will do the transfer.

October 8th he refunds be $78 from an order of Koa I place over the summer but not my original $1200. He said the payment is pas the refund point and so he would have to send the funds as a gift payment.

October 10th he said that he has some hick ups and he would go ahead and send $800 in a moment just to let me know he was not playing any games with me.

October 12 I asked for any updates and no response

October 13th I message him again and he tells me now that he decided to send me a lump payment

October 14th nothing from him

October 15th I message him again and nothing

If anyone can help me with my issue I would greatly appreciated. I'm just lost now and feel hopeless


thank you kindly
 
This is disappointing to hear. Ian had some health issues that affected his ability to continue working on knives consistently. I would hope he would refund any outstanding money.
 
That is how we communicate on instagram.
I understand he is a stay at home dad and can only work on knifes few few times a week but he does not respond to my messages anymore?

anyone the knows of him can talk on my behalf to help re get my money back......Please
 
Send him an email, Instagram DM and a voice mail with a link to this thread.
 
Wow. hate to hear this. Sounds like he has already used the money for other things and does not have the $1200 to give back to you. Hopefully he will come here to address this matter and refund you soon.
Sadly this is yet another case of never pay up front for a knife - especially when the wait may be long. Kind of like the whole paypal friends thing. It's said over and over, yet people still do it.
Hope it works out.
 
I feel this will all work out.
Not defending his actions, or the time it's taken him.
But I feel he'll do you right in the end,
he's been really busy just trying to get set up again to make knives consistently and has his daughter to care of 70-80% of his time. Hope it all works out.
 
Got a heads up from someone to check this out.

This is my IG profile currrently. I have been extremely vocal both in public posts and direct messages to this user that I have an extremely limited amount of time to do business, usually 1-2 days a week with an absolute maximum of 3.

LMLUgW5.jpg


My wife is a graveyard oncology nurse, so if she works 2 back to back shifts, I actually will be tied up for 4 days. I have to watch the baby the day before while she sleeps on, and then the day after while she sleeps off.

Due to the above I am not currently making new knives or accepting new orders. I have decided the best thing for my family and my customers is for me to go dealer only. My IG posts and public presence are now strictly for show purposes and catalogue of my pursuits.

We wont even go into my chronic spinal issues, those alone are worth a full novel, and anyone curious can sift my IG or BF posts. My back has actually been in rather good health once I stepped away from the grinder for a bit, my decision to go dealer only and discontinue being a full time maker in public was motivated almost entirely by the birth of my daughter.

I currently have two refund requests pending not counting this one. I have roughly one dozen unfilled orders. That is it. As soon as those obligations are met I will be working on dealer knives only, and rarely at that.

Edit: I had to wake my wife up to watch the baby so I could make this post. I habe to go back upstairs and get her. I will post again later today once this refund is concluded.
 
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ksbladeguy said:
That is how we communicate on instagram.
I understand he is a stay at home dad and can only work on knifes few few times a week but he does not respond to my messages anymore?

anyone the knows of him can talk on my behalf to help re get my money back......Please
Click to expand...

And just for the record, the last four times you contacted me I responded to your DM same day or next day according to the DM logs. That would be on Oct 5th, 6th, 8th, 10th.

Your last message of "???" sent on Friday and your long opinion of what a terrible person I am, sent sat morning, are the only ones I didnt respond to, up until this morning that is, and before I was made aware of this post.

As far as I knew we were still in communication until all of this. I'm not mad at you, I understand the way you feel as a customer waiting on substantial funds, and as I mentioned I did not delay your refund out of spite, nor would I ever.
 
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OP, what is the hold up with the refund?

NM...just re read your first post. That guy is broke as a joke. Hope you can get your money back.

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk
 
Gastonknife said:
Looks like a few others have been down this road several years ago.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1313426-No-Knife-(/page2?highlight=hall+handmade

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1202072-Hall-Handmade?highlight=hall+handmade

Hopefully it will work out in the end.
Click to expand...

Gee, It's almost like I have chronic health issues or something. I don't heal, I just deal with it the best I can, and hope I still get to work with my hands in the years to come. It is the main reason I am here and not elsewhere.

I mentioned what you just linked in my post above, where I suggested folks search my post history if they were just dying to read more about my ongoing health troubles and their results. My mention of my health troubles came long before I'd had even a single late order/complaint in GBU. In fact my history here and elsewhere was what you would call spotless until I started experiencing serious health trouble again. So if folks are gonna go search for my drama... maybe they should search for that too. I guess that isn't the way things work nowadays though.

Im very slow now, but continue to communicate and fulfill obligations, whether the "failure cheerleaders" like it or not. I am partially disabled, with chronic and what appear to be untreatable health issues that forced me to abandon my career. I love to make things, so here I am. Some folks say I seem to have "many problems" in a veiled attempt to question my character. I say I have exactly one problem. A body I can never truly rely on, day to day, week to week, month to month.

The reality now, nearly 4 years into my knifemaking pursuits, I am officially fed up with relying on the stability of my health to dictate the delivery of orders, and incidentally so are my customers.

I am no longer making for, or selling knives directly to customers, save very rare occasions or to fulfill past commitments or for pet projects such as the desrosiers benefit knives. As briefly mentioned above, I will be selling through dealers and on consignment only... so once I fulfill my current obligations, the how, when, where, or why I run my business will no longer be of anyone's concern (other than I continue to honor warranty).

Edit: I typed this up on my phone and can't go back into my office until my wife wakes. I wont go further off topic, and I'm not sure I should anyways, I've said the important, at least tangentially business related stuff. Once I am back at the desktop I will start on this refund and post an update this evening.
 
Pardon me, but I would not advise anyone to rely on you honoring warranties when you seem to honor nothing else. :rolleyes: I don't make a habit of piling on or beating someone when down, but the "I'm ill" thing has been WAY overused. Also, "once you fulfill your current obligations" seems like, at this rate, it may well be a VERY long time. Again, people take note. I don't have a dog in this, so I'm done.
 
katanas said:
Pardon me, but I would not advise anyone to rely on you honoring warranties when you seem to honor nothing else. :rolleyes: I don't make a habit of piling on or beating someone when down, but the "I'm ill" thing has been WAY overused. Also, "once you fulfill your current obligations" seems like, at this rate, it may well be a VERY long time. Again, people take note. I don't have a dog in this, so I'm done.
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For a community that talks so much smack about how supportive they are of makers when they are down, I have very rarely felt anything but attacked as soon as my health issues are brought up as the cause for my troubles. Probably partly because it is one of the favorite excuses folks use. Difference between me and them, my "excuse" hasn't changed a single time in 20yrs.

Do something dumb and injure yourself in the shop? Poor guy, hope he gets well soon. Don't give the guy a hard time, he is down.

Have chronic, inescapable spinal pain from a no-fault car accident, still do your best each day to be a somewhat productive human being, and stumble when things get bad? Lazy, scammer, liar, whiner, making excuses, etc.
 
HallHandmade said:
For a community that talks so much smack about how supportive they are of makers when they are down, I have very rarely felt anything but attacked as soon as my health issues are brought up as the cause for my troubles. Probably partly because it is one of the favorite excuses folks use. Difference between me and them, my "excuse" hasn't changed a single time in 20yrs.

Do something dumb and injure yourself in the shop? Poor guy, hope he gets well soon. Don't give the guy a hard time, he is down.

Have chronic, inescapable spinal pain from a no-fault car accident, still do your best each day to be a somewhat productive human being, and stumble when things get bad? Lazy, scammer, liar, whiner, making excuses, etc.
Click to expand...

Health issues are horrible and I know Ian and he does have chronic problems.

But to be honest, that is why it is good never to take full payment on an item until it is 100% ready to ship. I find on custom orders a small deposit works well to make sure both parties are committed and if anything goes south the $50 deposit is easy to deal with.

I hope things smooth out for you Ian, you are far to talented to not be making knives.
 
Since I'm in limbo mode right now until the wife wakes up... Ill share some of my many excuses missed in the OP (not being sarcastic, these are all excuses from at least one viewpoint in this transaction)(also check my IG feed to cross reference below mentioned events with photos if you like, it's an open book)

-Recovering from new injury and re-injury of my back in March of '15. Just starting to achieve some stabiliy in my health. Rough times. Angry customers. Missed deadlines. Still working hard and doing genuine best.

- early summer wife's best friend got 6mo terminal cancer diagnosis. Stage 4, 3rd relapse, untreatable. Asked us to get married asap before she passes.

-Birth of my first child (on April fools fool's day of course). Wife's best friend had to miss because she was still too radioactive.

-Baby had severe colic for nearly two months after she was born and it took both my wife and I 24/7 to care for her. When we weren't caring for the baby, we were preparing meals for our dying friend and her family on chemo days. They have other arrangments now.

-Pulled off impromptu wedding and honeymoon from miniscule savings combined with generosity from friends, family, and a few customers. Threw it ourselves, at inlaws community center (no venue fee) due to near zero budget or planning time, so were busy and exhausted for several weeks. Sick friend was able to attend as part of bridal party, looked beautiful, and had as much fun as possible considering.

-Week of wedding, disposal broke, water heater broke before family coming to stay. Grinder broke trying to finish a couple old blanks to pay for them. Spent week after wedding and before honeymoon fixing grinder. Showed up late to honeymoon with angry baby because I insisted on prepping orders until my printer ran out of toner (it did).

Around this point friends, family, customers, and colleagues alike (such as AVigil) start making regular, usually well intentioned wisecracks about my "special luck"

Week after honeymoon, on Oct. 1st, my wife's 6mo maternity leave is up. Same day my wife went back to work, my daughter turned 6mos. Also that same day, I started as full time dad, sometimes maker. Also, also, that same day, baby Em thought it would be a good time to learn to crawl, a lot, all at once, nearly every waking minute. Little sleep has been had by all, since then. I'm kind of clawing my way through each day. I think my clothes are 3 days old but not sure. Other parents will completely understand.

So end of last week before wife went back on shift, I message OP saying that I've FINALLY gotten away to the bank to take care of business, will send refund next morning. Next morning (Saturday 15th, two days ago) I drop a 50lb shop lamp on my foot and break two toes, one of which bled for a full day even elevated and unable to walk. I posted an update to my IG saying that i would be out of commission for a day or two with a picture of my busted foot. More wisecracks about my luck ensue. I coin phrase "I used up all my luck on my family"

I was hobbling and bleeding yesterday, today I am limping and not bleeding, and back to work literally any minute now when my wife wakes up. This will likely be my last post this size or this off topic, although I will reply as needed for on topic business concerns.

AVigil said:
Health issues are horrible and I know Ian and he does have chronic problems.

But to be honest, that is why it is good never to take full payment on an item until it is 100% ready to ship. I find on custom orders a small deposit works well to make sure both parties are committed and if anything goes south the $50 deposit is easy to deal with.

I hope things smooth out for you Ian, you are far to talented to not be making knives.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you Adam. It took me some time to get it straight but probably the best decision I made was to stop taking deposits and orders at roughly the same time earlier this year. Even when things are going well they are probably not a good idea. I think I only have three "deposited" knives unfinished currently and after those are done I'm not sure any amount of convincing could make it seem a good idea to me again. I did take one recently on insistence of a good customer but I capped it to 1/3 of the order value.
 
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HallHandmade said:
Since I'm in limbo mode right now until the wife wakes up... Ill share some of my many excuses missed in the OP (not being sarcastic, these are all excuses from at least one viewpoint in this transaction)(also check my IG feed to cross reference below mentioned events with photos if you like, it's an open book)

-Recovering from new injury and re-injury of my back in March of '15. Just starting to achieve some stabiliy in my health. Rough times. Angry customers. Missed deadlines. Still working hard and doing genuine best.

- early summer wife's best friend got 6mo terminal cancer diagnosis. Stage 4, 3rd relapse, untreatable. Asked us to get married asap before she passes.

-Birth of my first child (on April fools fool's day of course). Wife's best friend had to miss because she was still too radioactive.

-Baby had severe colic for nearly two months after she was born and it took both my wife and I 24/7 to care for her. When we weren't caring for the baby, we were preparing meals for our dying friend and her family on chemo days. They have other arrangments now.

-Pulled off impromptu wedding and honeymoon from miniscule savings combined with generosity from friends, family, and a few customers. Threw it ourselves, at inlaws community center (no venue fee) due to near zero budget or planning time, so were busy and exhausted for several weeks. Sick friend was able to attend as part of bridal party, looked beautiful, and had as much fun as possible considering.

-Week of wedding, disposal broke, water heater broke before family coming to stay. Grinder broke trying to finish a couple old blanks to pay for them. Spent week after wedding and before honeymoon fixing grinder. Showed up late to honeymoon with angry baby because I insisted on prepping orders until my printer ran out of toner (it did).

Around this point friends, family, customers, and colleagues alike (such as AVigil) start making regular, usually well intentioned wisecracks about my "special luck"

Week after honeymoon, on Oct. 1st, my wife's 6mo maternity leave is up. Same day my wife went back to work, my daughter turned 6mos. Also that same day, I started as full time dad, sometimes maker. Also, also, that same day, baby Em thought it would be a good time to learn to crawl, a lot, all at once, nearly every waking minute. Little sleep has been had by all, since then. I'm kind of clawing my way through each day. I think my clothes are 3 days old but not sure. Other parents will completely understand.

So end of last week before wife went back on shift, I message OP saying that I've FINALLY gotten away to the bank to take care of business, will send refund next morning. Next morning (Saturday 15th, two days ago) I drop a 50lb shop lamp on my foot and break two toes, one of which bled for a full day even elevated and unable to walk. I posted an update to my IG saying that i would be out of commission for a day or two with a picture of my busted foot. More wisecracks about my luck ensue. I coin phrase "I used up all my luck on my family"

I was hobbling and bleeding yesterday, today I am limping and not bleeding, and back to work literally any minute now when my wife wakes up. This will likely be my last post this size or this off topic, although I will reply as needed for on topic business concerns.
Click to expand...

What does any of this have to do with you taking customers' money up front, not getting their orders done, and then not refunding them when they ask for a refund? If you cannot afford to refund the OP, then you should be honest with him (immediately) and figure something out.

Until you've finished and shipped the knife or knives in question, money that you've taken up front does not belong to you. You cannot run a business or support yourself or your family and ignore this fact. It is irresponsible and unethical.
 
brancron said:
What does any of this have to do with you taking customers' money up front, not getting their orders done, and then not refunding them when they ask for a refund? If you cannot afford to refund the OP, then you should be honest with him (immediately) and figure something out.

Until you've finished and shipped the knife or knives in question, money that you've taken up front does not belong to you. You cannot run a business or support yourself or your family and ignore this fact. It is irresponsible and unethical.
Click to expand...

Where have I said anything of the sort?
 
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