Hall Handmade

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yikes, this is tough to read :-(

I know this thread is about character and integrity, and that the way you handle a problem can often be more important than the problem itself.
As a part-time maker, I alway remember what Chuck Gedraitis said - the hardest knife to make is the one you've already been paid for.
I felt this stress and pressure twice before and I'm never doing it again. I never even asked for the money but a repeat customer sent payment in advance anyway.

Anyway, I think we all know what needs to be done here.

The only thing I'll add is my personal experience with Ian. In late 2014, 2 years ago before I started making knives I contacted Ian and asked if he would help me get started. He was one of several local makers I asked to help me get started. I visited Ian at his home and he gave me a day at his shop and got me started with some exposure to knife-making and he made knife that day so I could learn. He charged almost nothing for his time. Ian certainly wasn't as busy back then. I'm very grateful to Ian for being generous with his time to help me get started.

Ian is a very a talented and skilled knifemaker, but knifemaking as a living is a very difficult task and requires other skills and experience beyond skilled craftsmanship.

Myself I come from the background of if you are going to bow down, bow down really low...

Good luck Ian and to the OP

regards
 
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HallHandmade said:
Sure i will... when my wife wakes up, no sooner, no later. I will post here when done. Exactly what i said a whole page of everyone twisting my words ago. The only reason you even got this much fun out of me is that I always let my wife sleep when coming off shift.
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like i said you're not making sense.

if having fun is asking you to refund people you owe and letting you know you've done more damage to yourself typing on this thread than saying nothing and giving refunds to people you owe..then ya i guess you are right.
 
jbmonkey said:
like i said you're not making sense.

if having fun is asking you to refund people you owe and letting you know you've done more damage to yourself typing on this thread than saying nothing and giving refunds to people you owe..then ya i guess you are right.
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Wow you guys are just trying soooooooo hard to cast this in any negative light you can. I already said I would send the refund after 4pm PST today per my very first reply to the thread on page one.

My wife sleeping was the main reason. You folks literally turning yourselves inside out to find something wrong with every single reply I type was the minor reason. I do not do business while I am watching my daughter as I stated repeatedly before. This policy is permanent and non-negotiable, and folks question that yet claim to be caring parents in the same breath.

The refund is sent. Lets see how many of you even bother to read those four words. I predict we get another page of replies attacking any random crap possible before anyone catches on.

Gastonknife said:
Completely and utterly pathological.
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I completely agree. A disturbing portion of the posters in GBU will do whatever they can to twist every thread into the most inflammatory mess possible, calling even perfectly reasonable statements into question simply to "one up" the OP or defendant or attempt to discredit them in any manner possible even when it is plainly obvious they are reaching.

I agree it is completely and utterly pathological, and notable makers of reputation have been been leaving the forum in droves because of the never ending acid negativity and drama here, the desire for every thread to end in the worst, most drama filled way possible, "wishing luck" to OP and defendant from one side of their mouth, then spitting gas onto the fire out of the other side of their mouth.
 
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Ian, I just wanted to say that after reading through this thread and the ones that were linked I have a lot of respect for you. You seem to make good on all promises, eventually. It would be nice if you were more prompt, but you prioritize your life as well as you can. I get that. After reading the linked threads I knew that this would end with you saying that you sent the refund and then the OP coming on to say that he had received the payment.

As for conducting business while watching a child, I am a father of three that is a stay at home dad and still manage to get work done out of the house. Anybody that claims that they can do any specific task while caring for a child is full of it. Each of my children require very different levels of attention. I can have the oldest two of home and get quite a bit of work done. I can be home with just the youngest and get nothing done all day. For somebody to suggest that you should prioritize money, or even your business, over your child is completely out of line in my opinion.

I really hope that your health turns around and you're able to become more productive in the shop. Until then, enjoy your time with that baby. She is far more precious than any knife or customer will ever be.
 
We know one thing... Hall Handmade is advertising (put another way; reaching out to the public) and accepting money. Why, I'm not sure. If you have known heath issues that interfere with day to day business operations, shouldn't you be disclosing that? Shouldn't you be taking care of those, rather than telling people you're currently accepting work? If you accept money, you need to deliver. Period. If you can't deliver, give the money back in a timely manner. Period. Why is that so hard for some people?

Did you point out to all potential customers that you might be incommunicado, you only work sporadically on-and-off, or possibly incapacitated up front? Or, did you wait until after it happened before telling them the bad news and they'll just have to take it, because? Coming to the table with sympathy plays while in the midst of questionable acts is manipulative and unprofessional.
 
HallHandmade said:
Wow you guys are just trying soooooooo hard to cast this in any negative light you can. I already said I would send the refund after 4pm PST today per my very first reply to the thread on page one.

My wife sleeping was the main reason. You folks literally turning yourselves inside out to find something wrong with every single reply I type was the minor reason. I do not do business while I am watching my daughter as I stated repeatedly before. This policy is permanent and non-negotiable, and folks question that yet claim to be caring parents in the same breath.

The refund is sent. Lets see how many of you even bother to read those four words. I predict we get another page of replies attacking any random crap possible before anyone catches on.
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you still arent making sense and avoiding that you could have already refunded those you owe and commenting on here is doing business. as much so or more so than sending a paypal refund. so be it.......
 
other memory said:
We know one thing... Hall Handmade is advertising (put another way; reaching out to the public) and accepting money.
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I don't know that. His IG profile states "**full time stay at home dad** CURRENT STATUS: DAD MODE. RETURN 10/17 4PM PST Knifemaker when time allows. Dealer only." That to me says that he's a stay at home dad that makes knives on the side and sells them only through dealers. Is there somewhere else where he's advertising and accepting money?
 
other memory said:
Where's the refund or product? Future promises don't matter.
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So that's a no? He's not advertising and accepting money? You claimed that he's telling people that he's currently accepting work. Where did you get that from? Please provide a link or admit that you're making things up to stir the pot.

He's said that he already refunded the money. What exactly is it that you're looking for at this point?
 
Coming to the table with sympathy plays while in the midst of questionable acts is manipulative and unprofessional.
 
HSC /// said:
yikes, this is tough to read :-(

I know this thread is about character and integrity, and that the way you handle a problem can often be more important than the problem itself.
As a part-time maker, I alway remember what Chuck Gedraitis said - the hardest knife to make is the one you've already been paid for.
I felt this stress and pressure twice before and I'm never doing it again. I never even asked for the money but a repeat customer sent payment in advance anyway.

Anyway, I think we all know what needs to be done here.

The only thing I'll add is my personal experience with Ian. In late 2014, 2 years ago before I started making knives I contacted Ian and asked if he would help me get started. He was one of several local makers I asked to help me get started. I visited Ian at his home and he gave me a day at his shop and got me started with some exposure to knife-making and he made knife that day so I could learn. He charged almost nothing for his time. Ian certainly wasn't as busy back then. I'm very grateful to Ian for being generous with his time to help me get started.

Ian is a very a talented and skilled knifemaker, but knifemaking as a living is a very difficult task and requires other skills and experience beyond skilled craftsmanship.

Myself I come from the background of if you are going to bow down, bow down really low...

Good luck Ian and to the OP

regards
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Harbeer,

I really enjoyed your visit and also enjoy seeing your work from time to time. Turns out I may go find some greener pastures for a while. My old field has been literally begging me back (even willing to work around my wifes printed schedule) and honestly I'd rather go back to being high paid and respected, than skipping entire nights of sleep to do right by my customers, literally putting my heart and soul into my work, and then getting spat on and called a fraud as thanks for it. Regarding bowing down, I've aleady owned up to and apologized for my many faults and deficiencies, repeatedly, in my past threads here, and all over my IG profile. Anyone who knows me personally knows that I am self critical and humble, but I also do not bend nor bow needlessly, even when it would be the diplomatic thing to do. My philosophy is "do not demand that which is already given" It applies to apologies, and strangely enough, this entire thread.

Cory Hess said:
Ian, I just wanted to say that after reading through this thread and the ones that were linked I have a lot of respect for you. You seem to make good on all promises, eventually. It would be nice if you were more prompt, but you prioritize your life as well as you can. I get that. After reading the linked threads I knew that this would end with you saying that you sent the refund and then the OP coming on to say that he had received the payment.

As for conducting business while watching a child, I am a father of three that is a stay at home dad and still manage to get work done out of the house. Anybody that claims that they can do any specific task while caring for a child is full of it. Each of my children require very different levels of attention. I can have the oldest two of home and get quite a bit of work done. I can be home with just the youngest and get nothing done all day. For somebody to suggest that you should prioritize money, or even your business, over your child is completely out of line in my opinion.

I really hope that your health turns around and you're able to become more productive in the shop. Until then, enjoy your time with that baby. She is far more precious than any knife or customer will ever be.
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ALL of this is because I have put my daughter first no matter what. These days I won't even let people get to me mentally any more, because it is unfair for her to have her daddy distracted or in a bad mood because some guy on the internet said something mean that was uninformed garbage anyways. That said I'm not gonna stand and be a punching bag here or anywhere for that matter.

other memory said:
We know one thing... Hall Handmade is advertising (put another way; reaching out to the public) and accepting money. Why, I'm not sure. If you have known heath issues that interfere with day to day business operations, shouldn't you be disclosing that? Shouldn't you be taking care of those, rather than telling people you're currently accepting work? If you accept money, you need to deliver. Period. If you can't deliver, give the money back in a timely manner. Period. Why is that so hard for some people?

Did you point out to all potential customers that you might be incommunicado, you only work sporadically on-and-off, or possibly incapacitated up front? Or, did you wait until after it happened before telling them the bad news and they'll just have to take it, because? Coming to the table with sympathy plays while in the midst of questionable acts is manipulative and unprofessional.
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Much of my initial response to this thread dealt with the fact that I am not currently making or selling knives and have not been for some time. I may start again, but not any time particularly soon or relevant to your accusation that I am advertising my wares. The only thing I've advertised here is that I'm not selling knives, and with quite good reason I'm sure even the "negativity cheerleaders" could agree.

Regarding whether potential customers were informed of this, YES. LOUDLY AND VERY REPEATEDLY. Both before and after payment. To the point where I lose more followers than I gain because my constant posts and warnings about communication blackouts and my health are so annoying to them. You see, they hate it when I tell them, they also hate when I don't.
 
Out of curiosity I logged into PayPal, set up a mock Friends and Family payment to a random person I've done business with, took less than 90 seconds from entering my log-in password to stopping just short of hitting send. Of course that's based on me actually having enough money in either my account or my funding source to actually make the payment...

It took longer to write about it then it did to actually do it.
 
HallHandmade said:
Regarding whether potential customers were informed of this, YES. LOUDLY AND VERY REPEATEDLY. Both before and after payment. To the point where I lose more followers than I gain because my constant posts and warnings about communication blackouts and my health are so annoying to them. You see, they hate it when I tell them, they also hate when I don't.
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That's reasonable. Yea, why anyone would get involved after the risks are laid-out, that's a mystery to me. I'm sorry to hear that you're sick. I'm glad you're trying and being productive. However, take care of yourself first, then do business.
 
Gastonknife said:
http://m.wikihow.com/Spot-a-Pathological-Liar
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Do you have any specific you'd like to address, or are you just going to keep throwing crap and seeing what sticks?

I think you are sad that you looked through basically an entire novel of my content, couldn't get my goat or cause me to become otherwise flustered, and so now have moved on to trying to invalidate the entirety of everything I write. Nice.
 
Mr Hall, I have no agenda here and nothing personal regarding you. I have however, been around here a long time and seen all kinds of issues. As such I have seen your name in this sections several times in the last couple of years. Which is not a good thing.
If you would kindly take the time to look at one of the previous threads my comment gave you the benefit of the doubt and remained positive. Even on this third thread, I attempted to take a wait and see approach. But all you did was come here and give the same excuses and plays for sympathy that you did the other times. Strike one, strike two, strike three. I don't think you are a scammer or thief. And I would imagine that you will eventually try and make this good....I really do.
But, at some point the first step to recovery is admitting you have an issue. I am glad to see you are no longer taking new orders or money up front. Get your life back together and then see if you can get back in the game and do it the right way.

Anyway, wishing the OP the best here as well.
 
I want to thank everyone for helping me get my money back. I was really depressed and even tried to get my money by filing a complaint with paypal and the BBB.

I messgaged Ian once I saw my money was refunded that I would contact paypal and BBB that I got my money. Lesson learned not to hand over money until the work has been completed.

Thank you again for this wonderful community. it may be small but it sure is great
 
ksbladeguy said:
I want to thank everyone for helping me get my money back. I was really depressed and even tried to get my money by filing a complaint with paypal and the BBB.

I messgaged Ian once I saw my money was refunded that I would contact paypal and BBB that I got my money. Lesson learned not to hand over money until the work has been completed.

Thank you again for this wonderful community. it may be small but it sure is great
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All it took was over a month of him jerking you around, forcing you to resort to posting here. And after all that, all he offered were more excuses, not a single apology for holding $1,200 of your hard earned money against your will for all this time.

Thank you for posting this. Nearly 1,800 people have seen this post and can come away with knowledge of how Ian Hall operates. This is not the first time this has happened. See here, for one example: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1313426-No-Knife-(?highlight=ian+hall.
 
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