Hammer thread

They are a long ways from one hit to set the nail and one to sink it. Which is what you get with a 32oz California style framing hammer or a rigging axe. And you can move things with those heavy hammers. For instance nailing down a wall to the sub floor. If the bottom plate isn't all that straight a toe nail will move it. Not so much with a light hammer.

I haven't had any problems doing that with a Ti hammer.

Have you tried one? Remember, it's 16oz, but it's titanium.
The properties & performance aren't measured the same.
So, you get 50% more power with half the weight.

Here's a Physics Forum member (Tiny-Tim) that explains it better than I ever could
(all I can say is that I have experience with it, but can't explain the "whys" of it): :)

Momentum (or impulse) is what matters.

Momentum in = momentum out, it doesn't matter whether you have a 50 lb hammer or a 5lb one,
the same momentum from you will make the 5lb hammer go 10 times as fast, but when it hits the nail,
the factor of 10 will cancel out, and the nail will go in just as far.

The only difference is that a lighter hammer is easier to carry (especially
over a long time), and so hammers are made as light as possible.

For some reason I don't understand, steel hammers cannot be made as
light as titanium hammers. For that reason only, titanium is better.

Here's a good example: A piece of straw gets injected into a tree during a tornado...

tonado_hayLR.jpg
 
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I haven't had any problems doing that with a Ti hammer.

Have you tried one? Remember, it's 16oz, but it's titanium.
The properties & performance aren't measured the same.
So, you get 50% more power with half the weight.

Here's a Physics Forum member (Tiny-Tim) that explains it better than I ever could
(all I can say is that I have experience with it, but can't explain the "whys" of it):

Yes I have tryed them. They will not keep up with a heavy hammer. Or move things like I stated. Maybe I just didn't try one heavy enough.
Most guys I worked around used 32oz Cali framers. Like I said one hit to set the nail and the next would put the union label on the wood. I don't see that with the titanium.
 
What happened to Hart? I have a 16 oz finish hammer I bought in the late eighties. Barely used but it's a great hammer.
 
Yes I have tryed them. They will not keep up with a heavy hammer. Or move things like I stated. Maybe I just didn't try one heavy enough.
Most guys I worked around used 32oz Cali framers. Like I said one hit to set the nail and the next would put the union label on the wood. I don't see that with the titanium.

When I first used one, it took me a few days to master it.
It's an odd feeling to get used to at first.
I'm trying to dig up a bud's video.
He's wicked with a Ti hammer.

Me? Wow. Since I became Management,
I haven't really used one as much.
:o
 
What happened to Hart? I have a 16 oz finish hammer I bought in the late eighties. Barely used but it's a great hammer.


Hart got bought out by Dead-On Tools.
I tried to see what they were selling,
but he store link on their site doesn't
work anymore (at least when I tried).
 
When I first used one, it took me a few days to master it.
It's an odd feeling to get used to at first.
I'm trying to dig up a bud's video.
He's wicked with a Ti hammer.

Me? Wow. Since I became Management,
I haven't really used one as much.
:o

I tried to dig up a vid of someone who could swing a heavy framer proper. No luck. Maybe they are extinct or retired.
 
I like to use a steel hammer with a wood handle around 25 ounces.I have found that I don't need to swing a heavy hammer as hard to get the nail driven. It would seem to me that swinging a hammer twice as fast would create a lot more vibration in the handle.
Rmfcasey
 
Been following this thread with very little to add. I recently watched a program on my local public tele station that showcased the role one of the suburbs (East Rochester) played in boxcar and refrige boxcar production during and after the war years (WWII). I cannot believe the accuracy and ease with witch these men could bury what looked like 12 or 16 penny nails with two hits - one to start and one to set. Was recently at HD looking at framing hammers - no way any of these lighter hammers could get the job done for any length of time.
 
Been following this thread with very little to add. I recently watched a program on my local public tele station that showcased the role one of the suburbs (East Rochester) played in boxcar and refrige boxcar production during and after the war years (WWII). I cannot believe the accuracy and ease with witch these men could bury what looked like 12 or 16 penny nails with two hits - one to start and one to set. Was recently at HD looking at framing hammers - no way any of these lighter hammers could get the job done for any length of time.

Yep, Stay tuned. I think a vid is going to be posted by Monday.
 
Back when I was in the field, I could sink a 16 penny un-coated duplex nail in 1 swing of a 32 oz Vaughan framer. The technique is called drop nailing, and you start and set the nail with the same swing. Requires pretty good timing to prevent finger damage.
Can't see a 14 oz titanium hammer driving miners wedges, or a jack screw worth a darn, either. The mass just isn't there.
 
They are a long ways from one hit to set the nail and one to sink it. Which is what you get with a 32oz California style framing hammer or a rigging axe.

You can do that with a 24oz. Vaughan framer. 32oz. framing hammers are for destroying carpenters' wrists.
215135-Penny.gif
215135-Penny.gif
 
I tried to dig up a vid of someone who could swing a heavy framer proper. No luck. Maybe they are extinct or retired.

Well, that's because the overwhelming majority of tradesmen use pneumatic guns (at least on the production sites I've managed).

It's like the Cody Lundin feet thing. Some think he's bad arse becuse he can walk in bare feet on any terrain
and yes, his feet might be tougher than someone who wears boots (aka, uses technology to improve performance).
But outside of posturing and bragging rights, in the real world, that only benefits him as a selling point for his business.

Put him in a race with someone of equal physical build and condition (apples to apples) with a pair of boots in the desert,
or as I like to say: Cody without boots vs Cody with boots. Who wins? Of course, the one utilizing proper footwear wins.
Why? Because his body is being taxed less and he accomplishes more. Fatigue, wear on the body, work output...they are
all affected by what one uses.

It's easier to sink 16D nails with a heavier hammer (you're talking twice the weight).
But, how long can that pace be kept up if it was the same person doing the same task?
If they hit 20 nails in a row, the one using the Ti hammer has already lifted 100lbs "less".
At the end of a day, how many pounds "less" did the user lift when comparing a 2lb tool
to a 1lb tool? I know in roofing, I could average 4,000 swing a day. If I used a 16oz claw
hammer vs a 32oz shingle hammer, that's be a ton less that I'd lift that day.

Here's a good example...I've always used 32oz Roofing Hatchets to Shingle.
When I first used a 4.9lb gun, it was awkward for me. BUT instead of swinging
8 times per shingle (2 swings X 4 nails), I was only lifting the gun 4 times.

So, with a hatchet, I was lifting 16lbs per shingle while nailing and with the gun 22lbs,
the number of lifting the tool was dropped by half with the gun (not to mention the
speed at which one can apply a shingle with a gun...about 4 times faster).

And the while the hatchet is sent to the work (meaning, the user had to put pressure
when making contact), the gun is merely dropped (less work, less fatigue, etc...).
There are lots of variables that go into production output.

Don't get me wrong, if someone used a 32oz framing hammer and tap/banged
all day, hey, I believe it. It's possible. But, that's not the norm of the trade.

Yep, Stay tuned. I think a vid is going to be posted by Monday.

Actually, two of the vids already posted
show a couple of guys tap/sinking nails below.
But the vid I'm getting is part of a nailing contest. :)

Not that any production tradseman literally works like that.
The tap/sink nail trick is just that...a trick.

I like to use a steel hammer with a wood handle around 25 ounces.I have found that I don't need to swing a heavy hammer as hard to get the nail driven. It would seem to me that swinging a hammer twice as fast would create a lot more vibration in the handle.
Rmfcasey

You should try it. You'll see that far less shock is transmitted to the user of the Titanium Hammer.
Again, you don't compare the weight of the striking instrument, but the properties of the metal used.
I've noticed that most people who don't like them never used them for more than a week.

:)

You can do that with a 24oz. Vaughan framer. 32oz. framing hammers are for destroying carpenters' wrists.
215135-Penny.gif
215135-Penny.gif


LOL! I don't see 32oz framing hammers on the sites I've worked. Maybe they are extinct or retired.
 
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[QUOTE=SR69;11315349)

Not that any production tradseman literally works like that.
The tap/sink nail trick is just that...a trick.

I can assure you it is no trick. I am over fifty years old and have not framed in better than a decade, and I can still do it.
And yes all day long.
You can bring in a ringer if you want to prove your point but they are going to be swinging for all they are worth. They are the ones that will get tired.
I never said I have any special skill swinging a hammer or an axe. And I don't. But I was fortunate enough to enter the trade when there was still plenty of crews that wouldn't drag a air hose.
Surely you could keep up with a grampa that hasn't framed in a decade. But please post your ringers. I want to see.
I am just a simple country boy that don't understand physics. But I do know that titanium does not hit any harder than steel. With titanium you have a milled face that looks like it is half worn out when you buy it and it doesn't last as long. To add insult to injury you lay down $80.00 on it. I can put a sheet rock hammer on a two foot handle and claim it out performs titanium hammers.
 
I can assure you it is no trick. I am over fifty years old and have not framed in better than a decade, and I can still do it.
And yes all day long.
You can bring in a ringer if you want to prove your point but they are going to be swinging for all they are worth. They are the ones that will get tired.
I never said I have any special skill swinging a hammer or an axe. And I don't. But I was fortunate enough to enter the trade when there was still plenty of crews that wouldn't drag a air hose.
Surely you could keep up with a grampa that hasn't framed in a decade. But please post your ringers. I want to see.
I am just a simple country boy that don't understand physics. But I do know that titanium does not hit any harder than steel. With titanium you have a milled face that looks like it is half worn out when you buy it and it doesn't last as long. To add insult to injury you lay down $80.00 on it. I can put a sheet rock hammer on a two foot handle and claim it out performs titanium hammers.

When I said "trick", you do understand that I meant trick as in not a common practice, right?
I didn't literally mean trick as in it's not real. And I agree. You don't understand physics.

That's why my buds will show it. I'm 43 by the way. Banged out 19sq in a day and a half a few weeks ago.
And that's after being retired from the physical side of the trade for almost half a decade now.
But that doesn't make me either right or wrong on the science of Titanium.
My skill neither defines nor corrects nor authenticates claims.

Objective facts are objective facts. It just is what it is.

Question:
How "long" exactly did you use the Titanium hammer you said you used?

I only ask because that might explain why you don't realize the same results with it that others have.
If you didn't "learn" how to use it properly, your personal performance might have been skewed,
thus causing you to have a negative experience with it.

And being that most production tradesmen use guns today, Ti hammers last a lot longer. Why? Because they are just back-ups.
Guns have made the steel hammer in production work oblivious. A carpenter today doesn't need 2lbs of steel to finish tapping in
a proud framing nail or to get into a tight spot.

I haven't been working as long as you have. I only started working all my days off of school at 13 years old and have been going
up on the roof with my dad since the age of 5 (yeah, I'm a 2nd generation tradesman). So I only have about a quarter of a century
under my belt of hands on experience (including running a business for the better part of that). Still...it doesn't make me any smarter
than the scientists who "can" explain the physics behind material. All I can say is that it's true because I have years of experience
using titanium hammers (probably more than you). The other five years I've spend managing construction projects.

My dad used to gripe with me about using a shingling hatchet when I was a teen working with
him when he got along fine for decades with a 16oz claw hammer from Sears. I'd ask him...

"Why don't you just use a rock like the cavemen did if improvements for a tool are so awful?"

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Well with your experience at such a young age you should not not let an old guy bs you. Like I said I have never been better than average pounding nails. But you did not address the points I made about titainium being half worn out when you bought it or the fact that it does not last as long or that you spend twice as much for it.
I have tried it on several occasions. Nothing gained. A big light head. But you could look like a real framer swinging it.
 
But you did not address the points I made about titainium being half worn out when you bought it or the fact that it does not last as long or that you spend twice as much for it.

I did actually. I pointed out how for the current production framer, carpenter, etc...since guns are
the norm, wear factor is a lot longer than for someone who just uses a hammer and no gun.

Also, there are steel faced Titanium hammers with replaceable heads that can be used indefinitely.

TBM14RMC_b3.jpg


stiletto_tbm14rmc_replface2_10448724.jpg


Of course, I personally have only worn out Roofing Hatchets, but a roofer uses a Hatchet on a much
harder/harsher surface that is much more aggressive than lumber. We are literally banging on little
rocks (granules). I'm a big Estwing fan. Love them. IMO, best hammer in the world. I've never worn
one out. They just get stolen or I've given a few away to a great worker or helper that I feel has
earned it with them showing me their willingness to learn.

"I have tried it on several occasions. Nothing gained.
A big light head. But you could look like a real framer swinging it."

Again, it took me a while to get it right. It is weird at first. But my God...it's a revelation for me
personally. I'm not saying this to be a smart-arse, but it really takes more than a few times.

Don't get me wrong, I still love the feel of a nice steel hammer,
but I can pretty much do 90% of what I did with them with titanium.
I'll always have a steel hammer.

:)

Here's something that might interest you...a 15oz Steel Framing Hammer:

[video=youtube;L7IM_50e-lM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qoXab2s2BSM[/video]
 
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I haven't worked on a production framing crew for 15 years. And I haven't tried the new titanium hammers yet but I'm willing to give them a try.

I worked with one of those old school crews like Garry mentioned that didn't use nail guns. I've driven a full 50 lb. box 16d sinkers by myself in a day with my Vaughan 24oz. framer. The waffle face of that hammer is almost completely flat now.

Last October at a Hammerschlagen party I discovered that I could still drive a 16d sinker with one blow to set and one blow to drive it home. But in production I always used three blows because a hard set is just risky and I needed my hands.

Hammerschlagen is fun. Try it at your next Oktoberfest party let your friends find out who's the real man.
grin.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammerschlagen
 
I haven't worked on a production framing crew for 15 years. And I haven't tried the new titanium hammers yet but I'm willing to give them a try.

I worked with one of those old school crews like Garry mentioned that didn't use nail guns. I've driven a full 50 lb. box 16d sinkers by myself in a day with my Vaughan 24oz. framer. The waffle face of that hammer is almost completely flat now.

Last October at a Hammerschlagen party I discovered that I could still drive a 16d sinker with one blow to set and one blow to drive it home. But in production I always used three blows because a hard set is just risky and I needed my hands.

Hammerschlagen is fun. Try it at your next Oktoberfest party let your friends find out who's the real man.
grin.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammerschlagen

A) Totally agree with you on the tap-strike-set for production.

B) Thanks for the Hammerschlagen reference. ;)

C) I didn't know how heavy my Roofing Hatchet was until I actually looked it up recently. 32oz. BUT!
It had a shorter handle because Roofers have a much shorter stroke than Framers/Carpenters and it's
always striking "down" (where gravity helps). Plus, we only sink it (at most) 1 3/4" Roofing Nails and
Roof Brackets with 16D Nails directly into rafters. I never had a problem with a Framing Hammer.

D) Put in some good time with a Ti hammer. Give it a week. You won't believe what you can do with it.

:encouragement:
 
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