Hammer thread

[garry3]

A)

D) Put in some good time with a Ti hammer. Give it a week. You won't believe what you can do with it.

:encouragement:

It makes no difference what the head is made out of. It could just as well be a rock. 16oz is going to drive a nail like a 16oz hammer. All things being equal. You would be better off if they would come out with a with a 16oz steel framer with a big face much like a sheet rock axe. At least then you would have a sharp milled face that would last twice as long and cost half as much. But the head would look small and well........you know what I mean.

 

[SR69]

It makes no difference what the head is made out of. It could just as well be a rock. 16oz is going to drive a nail like a 16oz hammer. All things being equal. You would be better off if they would come out with a with a 16oz steel framer with a big face much like a sheet rock axe. At least then you would have a sharp milled face that would last twice as long and cost half as much. But the head would look small and well........you know what I mean.

I can sink a 16D nail in 2-3 hits with
a 14oz Titanium Hammer all day long.

Can that be done with a 14oz steel hammer?

 

[garry3]

I can sink a 16D nail in 2-3 hits with
a 14oz Titanium Hammer all day long.

Can that be done with a 14oz steel hammer?

What makes you believe that titanium will drive a nail better than steel? You put a 14oz steel head on the same length handle and you will swing them both at the same velocity. Same velocity, same mass, same result.

 

[SR69]

What makes you believe that titanium will drive a nail better than steel?

Experience. Actually "doing it".

You put a 14oz steel head on the same length handle and you will swing
them both at the same velocity. Same velocity, same mass, same result.

AND, if you say "same", then you're STILL doing it with MORE weight than necessary.
AND, that proves my point that you can do "more" with less with a Titanium Hammer.



(Remembering that force = mass x acceleration, you can give up some mass if you pick up acceleration)

In one of my responses to you, I actually POSTED an all steel 15oz hammer that IS as long as the Titanium 15oz hammer.
The DeWalt/Stanley FatMax Hammer. How did it do? Not as good as the Titanium Hammer and even when it was remotely
close to the Titanium Hammer it STILL transmitted far more vibration and shock to the user. And, it was far more flexible
and not as stiff as Titanium.

(again, due to the properties of the metal)

"When compared to a wood handled titanium headed model, the titanium hammer still wins for its ease of nail driving,
But when we compare the DeWalt to other steel handled framing hammers, the MIG Weld does seem to have an edge over
the competition. When swinging the DeWalt DWHT51138, the head is noticeably lighter than a similar one-piece forged
steel hammer and we felt that the amount of effort required to sink nails was considerably less."

Pro Tool Reviews

 

[garry3]

Experience. Actually "doing it".



AND, if you say "same", then you're STILL doing it with MORE weight than necessary.
AND, that proves my point that you can do "more" with less with a Titanium Hammer.



(Remembering that force = mass x acceleration,
you can give up some mass if you pick up acceleration)

In one of my responses to you, I actually POSTED an all steel
15oz hammer that IS as long as the Titanium 15oz hammer.
The DeWalt/Stanley FatMax Hammer.
An all steel hammer? There is not a worse more inefficient hammer invented.


How did it do? Not as good as the Titanium Hammer and
even when it was remotely close to the Titanium Hammer
it STILL transmitted far more vibration and shock to the user.
And, it was far more flexible and not as stiff as Titanium.
What do you know about shock and vibration? You are the same guy that didn't have that problem with an Estwing.
(again, due to the properties of the metal)

Titanium, the magic metal that makes you swing harder. And you bought it?

 

[SR69]

Titanium, the magic metal that makes you swing harder. And you bought it?

Bought it, used it and proved it.
Nothing speaks louder than actual experience with a product.



BTW, correction on what my Roofing Hatchet weighed.
I stated 32oz. Actually, it was 42oz.
No wonder I have forearms like this!

 

[garry3]

SR,
I am trying to get enough hammers together to do a side by side comparison. The hold up is I don't want to spend money on hammers that I hate. When I get enough together I will make a Video and give it its own thread. I will go over the pros and cons on each design. I will tell the truth the whole truth and prove it.

PS. Anyone around Nampa ID want to lone me a Titanium and a all steel Estwing? Promise you will get them back.

 

[SR69]

SR,
I am trying to get enough hammers together to do a side by side comparison. The hold up is I don't want to spend money on hammers that I hate. When I get enough together I will make a Video and give it its own thread. I will go over the pros and cons on each design. I will tell the truth the whole truth and prove it.

PS. Anyone around Nampa ID want to lone me a Titanium and a all steel Estwing? Promise you will get them back.

Very nice. I look forward to it.

 

[SR69]

SR,
I am trying to get enough hammers together to do a side by side comparison. The hold up is I don't want to spend money on hammers that I hate. When I get enough together I will make a Video and give it its own thread. I will go over the pros and cons on each design. I will tell the truth the whole truth and prove it.

PS. Anyone around Nampa ID want to lone me a Titanium and a all steel Estwing? Promise you will get them back.

Very nice. I look forward to it.

(Just one note, with the Titanium hammers, you have to give them more than just a 15 minute try-out.
I'm sure you appreciate the value in first learning how to actually use a tool before judging it. I'd say give it
a few days. It's common knowledge that Ti has different properties and must be swung in a different manner.
With Ti, you're not just lifting and dropping it; you lift and swing it faster to the nail.)

 

[SR69]

Titanium VS Steel

"Nobody disputes the advantages of titanium: it’s as strong as some steels and weighs about 45% less. In a hammer, the lighter weight means a faster swing and a more powerful strike. So a 16oz titanium hammer will actually drive as well or better than heavier steel hammers. (In case you’re wondering how this is possible, look at the physics: the energy of a hammer strike is equal to one half the mass of the head times the square of the head’s speed at the time of impact. In other words, the energy increases linearly with mass, but exponentially with speed). Not only do titanium hammers use energy more efficiently, they’re also better at absorbing reverberation and reduce stress on the arm and shoulder.

So we’re back to the original question: is titanium worth the money? It just depends on why and how often you use that hammer. $150 doesn’t make a lot of sense for weekend projects. But there are a lot of professional framers who swear by titanium, despite the price tag. And I don’t think it’s because they “bought the marketing,” as some detractors claim. A lighter and more efficient design counts for a lot if you use that tool 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week. And it really counts if you have chronic shoulder injuries (which, after 8-10 hour days, is pretty likely.) The “Titanium vs Steel” question is less “Pepsi vs. Coke” and more “Explorer vs Escalade.” It’s the way you use it that will or won’t justify the cost."

[video=youtube;YfDN4X9g6bQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfDN4X9g6bQ[/video]

 

[SR69]

The whole "costs more, lasts less" argument is pretty null today with most tradesmen using guns.
Hammers just aren't being used as much as they were and last significantly longer with less wear.
I've seen Titanium Hammers being sold for the $50. mark on sales. That's only $10. more than steel.

For those who care about it, they are literally lifting tons of less weight per day by using a Ti hammer
instead of a steel hammer and all that "less" lifting is beneficial to the user (not to mention the less
trauma they are exposing their ligaments to). Steel is real, but now, it's also archaic technology.

If I had to rely on one hammer to last me for the rest of my life (and not use guns), it's be steel.
But, in the "real" world where I do use guns (and even when I don't), it's a no-brainer.
Same performance less weight, save my elbow, risk of injury greatly diminished.

Just like the article says (and I've always said)...value is relative.
It depends how a person is going to use a hammer.

 

[garry3]

Titanium VS Steel

"Nobody disputes the advantages of titanium: it’s as strong as some steels and weighs about 45% less. In a hammer, the lighter weight means a faster swing and a more powerful strike. So a 16oz titanium hammer will actually drive as well or better than heavier steel hammers. (In case you’re wondering how this is possible, look at the physics: the energy of a hammer strike is equal to one half the mass of the head times the square of the head’s speed at the time of impact. In other words, the energy increases linearly with mass, but exponentially with speed). Not only do titanium hammers use energy more efficiently, they’re also better at absorbing reverberation and reduce stress on the arm and shoulder.

So we’re back to the original question: is titanium worth the money? It just depends on why and how often you use that hammer. $150 doesn’t make a lot of sense for weekend projects. But there are a lot of professional framers who swear by titanium, despite the price tag. And I don’t think it’s because they “bought the marketing,” as some detractors claim. A lighter and more efficient design counts for a lot if you use that tool 8-10 hours a day, 5 days a week. And it really counts if you have chronic shoulder injuries (which, after 8-10 hour days, is pretty likely.) The “Titanium vs Steel” question is less “Pepsi vs. Coke” and more “Explorer vs Escalade.” It’s the way you use it that will or won’t justify the cost."

Estwing is taken care of. Just need a titanium now. And yes I will even have some kind things to say about Estwings and titanium hammers. Hard to believe I know. But I will be honest. And I will show most of the hammers in use.

 

[SR69]

Estwing is taken care of. Just need a titanium now. And yes I will even have some kind things to say about Estwings and titanium hammers. Hard to believe I know. But I will be honest. And I will show most of the hammers in use.

Good to hear. :thumbup:

What did you think if the video where the guy sunk the same
two nails with 3 strokes with both a steel and titanium hammer?

 

[thebrain]

I have not really used a TI hammer ,mostly because the guys I know that have them told me not to buy them. The guys I know that have them say the head "bounces" when you drive a nail and that "bothers" them when they drive nails, also the claws can`t hold up to the abuse they dish out like steel can. I have the Dewalt Mig weld hammer and many many others (I buy a new hammer twice a year for 10 years now just to try them out and on advice of a few friends in the medical field that say change things up as to not wear yourself out) . I do like the MIG weld hammer but it feels like it needs more weight behind it, but otherwise a great hammer. I do not like Estwing hammers mostly because they feel like they torque slightly to the side when I drive nails ,it has to do with not enough of the mass not being inline with the direction of the swing (something the Mig solved completely). I mostly like my Vaughn straight handle California framer 21oz (Both fiberglass and wood)for driving lots of 16s but for control I do like my Dead On Tools 16oz straight handle wood handle. I think mostly it is just what feels good to you , most hammers feel different from one to another even the same make and model , try a few and see what you like and don`t like . As an example of preference I really like a thin claw to get behind/under things and I like a magnetic nail setter even if I don`t use it much. Also use the heaviest hammer that is comfortable for you but the upper end of that can be a killer if you are driving 10lbs of 8d nails in a few hours time. Sorry for the long post just wanted to give my 2 cents. Oh and on a odd little note an older framer I know pretty well told me to make sure any hammer I buy doesn`t "ring" when you hit something with it , he says it means the head is flawed and will fail someday.

 

[SamuraiDave]

I've read through this entire thread, and I started thinking about investing in a new toy.

Then I went out to my garage and took a look at what I have.

A couple fiberglass hammers I bought when I did mission trips to Mexico as a teenager.
A few antique hammers I have recently re-halfted.

One box of finishing nails, and a box of tacks for furniture. Nothing else in my garage can be driven by a hammer.
Perhaps those massive shielded electrical staples used to hold wiring in place in my attic. But that is off subject.

Then on another shelf I have 7 boxes of different screws. Ranging from 4" coated decking screws down to 1 1/4 drywall screws and even a small bag of 1 1/4" Square drive furniture screws. Drywall anchors, and screws, assorted drill bits along with my bit index. I just love modern hardened steel screws.

Stronger than nails. I can pop a good sized nail with my horizontal cutter. Can't do that with the majority of screws.
They may wobble out over time, but nowhere near as bad as nails.

The more I think about it. The more I like a good lithium ion battery impact driver that weighs as much as my hammer, if not a tad bit more, and will drive 4" screws all morning. Recharge during a 15 minute break, and the drive them most of the afternoon. (Never done that many, but I have drained the battery in a full day of drilling and screwing in new framing at my folks house. One battery change and I was back in business.)

I just realized that I think I am tapped out on hammers. Call me lazy, but when I build something I find that over-engineering it with expensive fasteners that can be reused, such as coated exterior deck screws, makes my life easier. I have disassembled tables and lengthened and strengthened them, added shelves, and adjusted their heights.
I could of used nails.
But screws seem to be more easily used and are re-used when I take it apart.

I'm sure my arm appreciates it and my mental health is better off because of it. Nailing in the crawl space of an attic is scary while balancing on rafters and trying not to fall through the drywall. Drilling a pilot hole and following up with a screw, not so frustrating.

Does this add anything to the conversation? No... I don't believe it does.

However, Don't they build pneumatic screw drivers that accept screws that are belt fed, much like pneumatic nail guns?
Can't find anything online.
I figured that the superior holding capacity of screws would be beneficial in home building in areas where there are tornadoes, hurricanes, and bad weather in general (guess that is everywhere).
Perhaps speed beats quality. Not that shocking in today's world.

 

[Square_peg]

Interesting musings even if a bit off topic.

In commercial construction screw guns and rattle guns have largely replaced hammers.

 

[garry3]

I've read through this entire thread, and I started thinking about investing in a new toy.

Then I went out to my garage and took a look at what I have.

A couple fiberglass hammers I bought when I did mission trips to Mexico as a teenager.
A few antique hammers I have recently re-halfted.

One box of finishing nails, and a box of tacks for furniture. Nothing else in my garage can be driven by a hammer.
Perhaps those massive shielded electrical staples used to hold wiring in place in my attic. But that is off subject.

Then on another shelf I have 7 boxes of different screws. Ranging from 4" coated decking screws down to 1 1/4 drywall screws and even a small bag of 1 1/4" Square drive furniture screws. Drywall anchors, and screws, assorted drill bits along with my bit index. I just love modern hardened steel screws.

Stronger than nails. I can pop a good sized nail with my horizontal cutter. Can't do that with the majority of screws.
They may wobble out over time, but nowhere near as bad as nails.

The more I think about it. The more I like a good lithium ion battery impact driver that weighs as much as my hammer, if not a tad bit more, and will drive 4" screws all morning. Recharge during a 15 minute break, and the drive them most of the afternoon. (Never done that many, but I have drained the battery in a full day of drilling and screwing in new framing at my folks house. One battery change and I was back in business.)

I just realized that I think I am tapped out on hammers. Call me lazy, but when I build something I find that over-engineering it with expensive fasteners that can be reused, such as coated exterior deck screws, makes my life easier. I have disassembled tables and lengthened and strengthened them, added shelves, and adjusted their heights.
I could of used nails.
But screws seem to be more easily used and are re-used when I take it apart.

I'm sure my arm appreciates it and my mental health is better off because of it. Nailing in the crawl space of an attic is scary while balancing on rafters and trying not to fall through the drywall. Drilling a pilot hole and following up with a screw, not so frustrating.

Does this add anything to the conversation? No... I don't believe it does.

However, Don't they build pneumatic screw drivers that accept screws that are belt fed, much like pneumatic nail guns?
Can't find anything online.
I figured that the superior holding capacity of screws would be beneficial in home building in areas where there are tornadoes, hurricanes, and bad weather in general (guess that is everywhere).
Perhaps speed beats quality. Not that shocking in today's world.

Dave they do make coil fed screw guns. I used them as far back as 82. Now they have extensions for them so a guy doesn't have to bend over. For instance building a Red Wood deck.

 

[thebrain]

Screws are better for many things but they reason they are not used for framing is shear strength (the force it takes to shear off the fastener) a 16d nail is something like 1600 ft lbs and screws are brittle in most cases . For a good example drive a 16d nail and a 3 1/2" screw into a board and then swat them both from one side then the other ,the nail should take many back and forth bends before breaking; the screw will more snap off after only a few (often less than 3) bends. But if you ask most people that do that kind of thing will say both screws and nails together are the best for strength and holding power. Sorry for the long preachy post but this is something I have learned well over time . I have never seen a roofer screw a "kicker"(cleat nailed into a roof for walking ease) into a roof but some just use roofing nails.

 

[Square_peg]

Screws are hardened. It makes them brittle.

 

[SamuraiDave]

Interesting.
I need to go try that with some of the 3" screws I just purchased.

One would think with all the Phillips/Square/Hex driven screws made for decking and exterior applications that they could make something tough but not brittle.
Kind of like a differentially Heat Treated knife.
Although, that probably would get awfully expensive in a hurry.
Exotic materials + exotic processes = large sums of $$

Nails and screws you say? Good to know!