HandAmerican Borosilicate Rod

Matteo Escobar said:
Not sure I want to put in my two cents, but hey this is a feedback forum.

Years ago I commented on a bad experience that I had in someone else's thread about a bad experience with HandAmerican here in GB&U that was 100% true, and I got a threatening email from Keith saying he was going to sue me for slander.

I will not ever deal with him again.

I'll be checking my inbox for another threat to sue now.
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Years ago - in somebody elses thread. You need a lot more background info than that before starting to pointing fingers, making accusations of threats. :confused:

Keith already offered to handle the guy's problem any way that he wants and you pop up with this and nothing but a story? Maybe you were slandering? I don't know, I wasn't involved in that thread. Do you have a link? :confused:
 
I see more and more threads like this and want to give my thoughts on it, just to make it clear to myself more than anything.

Remember how much abuse nirvanero got last month when he was falsely accused by the scammer Benya, who is still a Gold Member here by the way?

I do and I remember how viscously he was groundlessly bullied by some people here. I didn't like it and I don't like this, all I can do is say so.

I have been considering one of these rods too, but this thread has ensured I never will. Here's why.

OP started the thread in order to inquire as to the quality of these rods owned by other people. Not to bad mouth anyone so much as to give his impressions and ask for feedback.

He gets told to contact the maker. This is bad advice, why would he contact the maker to ask about the quality of rods owned by other people? How can he hope to get an honest answer from the maker?

If he was stating that he wanted a refund, or solely bagging the item then yes he should have contacted the seller 1st.

But he wasn't, he was asking for feedback from other owners as his 1st step, perhaps wanting some his questions answered before contacting the seller.

Then the HA mafia fan boys appear and bully, harass and insult him when he made no personal accusations or insults, just gave an opinion and asked questions.

There is no evidence to suggest that anything the OP claimed is untrue. I thought there was a presumption of innocence in most of the first world?

Maybe he is a scammer or an honest victim of a bad product, I don't know, but how can you judge without evidence? Ask him for more photos to back up his claim of it being under length, answer his actual questions and give your harsh opinion, sure, but personally I don't think he deserved the response he got.

Keith may be great and his products may be too but through no fault of his own (post #18 not withstanding) I won't deal with HA just in case I have some kind of problem with them and get executed for making true statements or asking honest questions publicly. Seems to be happening more and more in some places...

Discuss. :)
 
Mafia, harrassment, bullying, insulting?

Your post sounds a bit strange and overblown stevenkelby. :confused: :rolleyes:
 
cziv said:
Mafia, harrassment, bullying, insulting?

Your post sounds a bit strange and overblown stevenkelby. :confused: :rolleyes:
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Yeah fair enough I guess I over reacted when I thought people were judging him without a "trial" while ignoring the reason for his post.

I'll leave my post up though.

I've been thinking a lot about these kinds of issues lately, where people judge without evidence.

"Slander", "lying", "bad-mouthing somebody", "fockewback", "pointing fingers", "making accusations of threats", and "Maybe you were slandering" all sounded a bit strange and overblown to me!

I was probably seeing things that weren't there but that's how it read to me.

I don't mean to atack anyone personally, just those posts.

I think Keith had the best public reply of all!
 
Matteo Escobar said:
Not sure I want to put in my two cents, but hey this is a feedback forum.

Years ago I commented on a bad experience that I had in someone else's thread about a bad experience with HandAmerican here in GB&U that was 100% true, and I got a threatening email from Keith saying he was going to sue me for slander.

I will not ever deal with him again.

I'll be checking my inbox for another threat to sue now.
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I don't know who you are, I don't recall making any such threats under any circumstances with regard to any customer.

T0 the fella who won't purchase HA products for fear that if something went wrong and he were to start the problem solving process in a forum he might be advised to have contacted me or one of our distributors first - Well, what can I say.

It's sound advice to contact the person who sold you the product to solve a problem, forum members really can't help.

Martell - I'll give you credit for two things, crawling out from the safety of you knifeforums cocoon, and becoming harder to ignore. Most of us running a business are very busy this time of year, and then there's you.

Isn't it time you got on with your life, such as it is.

To those of you who have offered kind words and support I can't thank you enough.

This is a tough business and there are vindictive people out there who try to make life miserable.

Knowing I have friends and people in general with some degree of common sense out there.....well, hard to find the words, it's kind of an overwhelming feeling, being the recipient of such decency in this world we live in.

Keith
 
Keith, there's no need to get all sensitive. Remember, if you live by the sword - you die by it too.

You and I both know that I pulled you and your dead ass company back into the light, the least you could do is to continue make the quality products that I demanded of you. I fear that without my oversight you will once again fall back into the darkness under your own weight of BS just as you always do.
 
I have had numerous dealings with Keith... I dont think there was one order where he did not go above and beyond.. He sent me sooo much stuff one time that I did not even ask for, I sent him a cooler of Vension for all the extras. I know he had some distribution issues awhile back, but I am sure Keith will more than make everything right.

His products are top notch and so is he..
 
if you don't like been critiziced....then make a perfect product,period.

If you can't make a perfect product, than have a perfect QC.

If fockewul feels dissapointed,he was all the rights to express it,or not?

"c'est la vie"
 
DaveMartell said:
Keith, there's no need to get all sensitive. Remember, if you live by the sword - you die by it too.

You and I both know that I pulled you and your dead ass company back into the light, the least you could do is to continue make the quality products that I demanded of you. I fear that without my oversight you will once again fall back into the darkness under your own weight of BS just as you always do.
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In our Maintenance section, HA is mentioned all the time for stropping & sharpening supplies. I don't recall ever hearing about your company. :rolleyes:
 
handamerican said:
I don't know who you are, I don't recall making any such threats under any circumstances with regard to any customer.
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I still have the e-mail saved, I could easily forward it back to you to refresh your memory if you like. Or if you like I could cut and paste it here for everyone to see, with your permission of course.
 
cziv said:
In our Maintenance section, HA is mentioned all the time for stropping & sharpening supplies. I don't recall ever hearing about your company. :rolleyes:
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Ask Keith who built (cut, glued, poured, etc) and distributed his products for him. Some things aren't always public knowledge but that doesn't mean that they didn't happen.
 
Guys I'm not here to give Keith a hard time. I just so happen to stumble upon this thread and because of my long time investment in his products I felt compelled to insert myself into the conversation. I should have walked the other way as I do most often but sometimes it's hard to do that when you know the real truth about something. I'll do my best to bow out of this and let matters be.
 
DaveMartell said:
Ask Keith who built (cut, glued, poured, etc) and distributed his products for him. Some things aren't always public knowledge but that doesn't mean that they didn't happen.
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Out of over 16 years in the business you distributed my products for about a year and a half. They put food on your table and I was pleased.

You had purchased my products since the late 90's and asked if you couldn't sell them somewhere around 2007.

I gave you a credit line of 3K when no one else would look at you.

You did a lot of work packaging, and for that you made more money then if I had sent the product to you pre packaged.

You didn't design any of my products, that was already done.

At one point you had a money problem and it took you a while to solve it.

Once the issue was solved I told you that if you needed to sell HA products to make money we would have to come up with a new way of shipping/payment. I didn't leave you high & dry.

Your gracious response was to announce on knifeforums that you were no longer selling HA products.

Your next step was to knock off HA products and sell them on your site.

You had no online retail presence until you sold my products, were you setting me up? was that your plan? don't know, don't care.

My last words to you years ago were for you to get some help, and to just leave me alone.

You have done neither.

Everything I'm writing has been documented via PDF, saved emails, and by virtue of the internet archives.

I have never commented on you on any public forum. You on the other hand have harassed me to the point of stalking and convinced others to dislike me for no good reason.

It's time you grew up and moved on, I have.

I have five companies distributing my products and five more to come in the new year and everyone is happy.

For cripes sake I sent your first kid Christmas and birthday gifts and really tried to help you.

Again, seek help, and leave me alone - I don't have time for this crap.
 
Keith, Keith, Keith....you always did like to put the spin on things. At least you're starting to show your true colors vs your fake public face that you normally show.

I was going to leave your comments alone but the one thing that I will address is the money problems, which I didn't have. I only had a problem paying you because you were making demands of payment outside of the terms of our agreement. You made the terms, you changed the terms, you re-changed the terms, you changed the business plan after dumping your product on me, and never once did a damn thing you said you would do to hold up your end of the bargain. Of course you did want/expect to be paid ahead of schedule for things that you didn't do and for that you saw me as having money problems. Again, the only money problems I had was in paying you what you weren't owed. You acted like a drunk crazed child and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I walked away from you but not until I sold all of the product I had on hand to pay you back in full.... which took all of 2 days. :jerkit:

So again, I'm going to attempt to leave this alone but I'll have to let your actions Keith be the deciding factor.
 
It took you three months to pay a $1,300.00 invoice and during those three months I asked you over and over if there was anything you could pay against it and you ignored me.

I'm not a bank.

Even fifty bucks would have shown some effort. I have all of the documents in B&W.

I don't know what your game is but if you want to square off with me in this forum I'm going to eat your lunch.

I'll ask again, just leave me alone.









DaveMartell said:
Keith, Keith, Keith....you always did like to put the spin on things. At least you're starting to show your true colors vs your fake public face that you normally show.

I was going to leave your comments alone but the one thing that I will address is the money problems, which I didn't have. I only had a problem paying you because you were making demands of payment outside of the terms of our agreement. You made the terms, you changed the terms, you re-changed the terms, you changed the business plan after dumping your product on me, and never once did a damn thing you said you would do to hold up your end of the bargain. Of course you did want/expect to be paid ahead of schedule for things that you didn't do and for that you saw me as having money problems. Again, the only money problems I had was in paying you what you weren't owed. You acted like a drunk crazed child and this was the straw that broke the camel's back. I walked away from you but not until I sold all of the product I had on hand to pay you back in full.... which took all of 2 days. :jerkit:

So again, I'm going to attempt to leave this alone but I'll have to let your actions Keith be the deciding factor.
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Keith, just like the original subject of this thread, your issues are with me.

You advertise acetal handle yet supply painted wood, you show a cordovan sheath yet supply crap bovine, you state 12" of length yet only 11" are supplied. With me you did the same things....you said one thing yet did another. You said that if I took on thousands of dollars of your raw products for the purpose of working it into retail items that you would get the accounts and then I could pay for the products. You realized that it would be stupid for me to have all this stuff sitting here with no accounts but yet you never did score one or for that matter you never even tried. One day you would say don't worry about paying you back because the products were just sitting around collecting dust but then when you needed $$ you demanded the money. The only consistent thing that you've ever been is in being inconsistent.

You can bring out all the B&W documents that you want to but it's not going to change who you are nor what you did. As far as I'm concerned you're either a scam artist or a person with issues. I guess that I can use the chromium oxide containers (old Scotch bottles) that you used to send to me as a hint as to your problems of inconsistency. It sure would explain a lot of the erratic things that you do.
 
Just for the record, you both have PM capability. This little back and forth has zero to do with the OP and isn't making either of you look good.

To the OP, if you haven't contacted Keith yet, do that. Contacting the maker of a product is the easiest (and only) way to rectify problems and if there is a problem, I have no doubt that Keith will take care of it.
 
DaveMartell said:
Keith, Keith, Keith....you always Blah.....blah.....BS.....blahblah......BS...Blahblah.
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First, back to the OP - Mark at CKTG handled it to everyone's satisfaction as would be expected.

Now, Martell

These things happened years ago and I was very happy to be rid of you.

Why can't you be just as happy to be rid of me?

Sometimes things don't work out, marriages, business deals/relationships, and so on.

So far on this thread you've insulted me & my products, made a veiled threat, told a ton of lies, accused me of running a 16 year old scam, called me names, etc.

And it all boils down to this perverse sense you have that I promised to 'adopt' you some time ago.

I'm sure that this thread is very entertaining to most, and I'm happy to oblige so long as you are.

But you could just leave me alone which is all that I've asked.
 
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