"Hard Use" knives?

[sunnyd]

I have some overbuilt folders and I like them but the reality of the situation is I could get by just fine the rest of my life carrying only a Case CV Swayback Jack. In my case they're not neccessary at all. The only reason I have them is I'm a knife enthusiast and I enjoy them along with other types of folders.

SteelSnob,

Well stated!. In fact, their are some very strong significantly better built production folders than customs that will absolutely exceed the expectations of the very hard boiled hunters and fisherman among us..

.. I can personally attest to the following Folding Hunter pattern from Schrade in the old days. Good solid knife for just about every difficult chore you needed a cutting tool to preform..

Anthony

 

[stabman]

I will just reiterate: I am quite puzzled by how big an issue this is for people who have no practical interest in hard-use folders.
What is it to them?

Well, as someone who buys supposed "hard use" folders, I couldn't answer for them.
I just thought that discussion would be something fun to do, and that we'd get more specific examples of real-world use of these knives.
Of course I figured there be some bashing (hey, it's the internet!), but I AM a tad baffled by the reluctance of people to provide more specific examples.

Once again, so no one forgets, it's OKAY if you buy em because you like em!

 

[Ankerson]

I WOULD ask them those things.
LIFE IS BORING; we have to find things to discuss.
I like knives and talking about knives, and talking about using knives, and talking about knife features...
So I started a thread intended to stimulate discussion about knives.
It isn't like I'm coming up with the 12 guage pointed at anyone's head screaming "Justify your purchases RIGHT NOW!!! Or ELSE!!!"
At least, I didn't think it was that level of knife world social faux pas.

I will give you an example, years ago I knew this guy who owned a Ferrari Testarossa. He told me that people asked him all the time why he bought that car.

After awhile he just stopped answering them because he got tired of saying the same thing over and over.

 

[stabman]

Dude, I wasn't trying to give you an attitude. I was answering your question about what I meant by "average" folder.:thumbup:

So would average basically mean liner lock and lock back knives with blades between 0.100" to 0.125"?

 

[stabman]

I will give you an example, years ago I knew this guy who owned a Ferrari Testarossa. He told me that people asked him all the time why he bought that car.

After awhile he just stopped answering them because he got tired of saying the same thing over and over.

He should have given it to ME!!!
I don't mind explaining why I have awesome expensive stuff. That's part of the fun.

 

[Ankerson]

So would average basically mean liner lock and lock back knives with blades between 0.100" to 0.125"?

Not sure what average would really be since you have to include all those gas station and flea market knives people buy. There are a ton of them out there.

 

[Kaizen1]

So would average basically mean liner lock and lock back knives with blades between 0.100" to 0.125"?

Sounds about right to me.

 

[Kaizen1]

Not sure what average would really be since you have to include all those gas station and flea market knives people buy. There are a ton of them out there.

Right, if we're including this stuff, then hard use knives are vaults. But if we're simply looking at mostly usage folders, then I think Stabman's description is fine.

 

[singularity35]

It seems to me that the people most concerned about defining a hard use folders are the ones who don't profess to want them.

 

[jay2pointoh]

Not sure what average would really be since you have to include all those gas station and flea market knives people buy. There are a ton of them out there.

Agreed. Average is relative. An average knife to my friend is a SAK or a Buck 110. For me average would be an Endura or a Leek.

 

[Any Cal.]

Stabman, it is sort of fun to watch all this, in a human psychology sort of way...

I could be especially persistent in asking why so many choose to use knives that are clearly not designed for heavier use, especially if they didn't carry a multi-tool. If I did so, I would have all kinds of people telling me that they don't need such heavy knives, they prefer better slicing ability, thinner profiles, etc.

If I continued to ask for a reason for their inability to properly prepare for situations that come up in daily life, don't you think that I would get only negative, exasperated answers?

You can ask for opinions, and offer your own, but you can't debate with people who don't really care to. As far as winning an argument about any of it... it's kind of like drag racing Hondas, even if you win you're still retarded...

I don't say any of this to berate you, just pointing out that it is a discussion/argument that no one can actually win. Best case is that some learn something about the other viewpoints, which has more to do with listening than debating.

To go along with that, I will offer my reasons for tending to choose slightly heavier build quality on folders. I have broken 4 tips off of knives, 2 were fairly expensive. Some happened before I knew better, others happened when I had no better way to do the job, and some were total accidents that required almost no force. I have also taken large chunks out of the edge of 2 blades, both times when there was almost no force on the blade, but it was extremely acute. That being the case, my experience tells me that for much of my usage, slightly thicker edges and stronger tips will work for my uses, and I happily take the reduction in slicing ability and ease of sharpening to be sure that I am less likely to break a knife accidentally.

I have no problem with someone choosing a slicing blade, but I also realize that I don't do very well with them. I also understand fully that a blade that works well for me will not be nearly as high performance in some areas as those who user thinner edges. I imagine that the same rationale will apply all the way up the scale to large, thick, heavy blades...which I don't often carry.

 

[freq18hz]

I will give you an example, years ago I knew this guy who owned a Ferrari Testarossa. He told me that people asked him all the time why he bought that car.

After awhile he just stopped answering them because he got tired of saying the same thing over and over.

Yeah here's the thing though, this situation is entirely different.

You aren't quietly driving your Ferrari, and having people inquire about it. You are making test videos, and posting about the merits of/features of/capabilities of Hard Use knives, and then classifying knives as such.

Obviously I'm not the only person that finds this interesting, or else this thread wouldn't exist. The ferrari example doesn't really apply at all. It again highlights the fact that you seem to think that a Hard Use folder is somehow better than other folders. If I had to guess, it is probably because you (and others) are searching for a way to justify the cost of things like Striders, Hinderers, Benchmades, Spyderco's etc.

A better example would be if you were discussing Demolition road cars, and then citing Ferrari because they are generally fast. When in reality, Ferrari's by their very design and nature are not built for Demolition derby's at all. By their very design they are weaker than a Honda/Toyota because their design is made to go fast, not be durable. Sure they get you there faster than other sports cars, but they are still inherently gimped compared to a Honda or a Toyota when it comes to how many times you can run it into things.

Top Gear actually did this exact kind of test with a Porsche 911. When they were done, they didn't go out and suggest everyone go buy a 911 in place of a bulldozer because it could be crashed into a tree more times.

And that's exactly what a Hard Use folder is. It's a misnomer. Folder's by design are not for Hard Use Abuse, they never have been, and they never will be. Sure some are more robust than others, but by design they are for light duty compared to a fixed blade.

I don't think anyone is questioning or trying to get you Hard Use guys to justify why you like your knives. I think instead they can't understand why you place merit in something that by it's very nature is not made to withstand Hard Use/Abuse.

It's like trying to use a Rolex as a shovel. It might hold up better in an emergency situation than a Casio G-Shock, but you could still have planned better and brought the right tool.

"But I want to know what my Rolex can do, just in case I have to push it to its limits and use it as a shovel. What if its the only watch on me, and due to many possible constraints I can't carry a shovel...in that case, I want to know my Rolex can dig as well as possible."

This is a totally anxious and fearful way to think, which is very divergent of reality.

How many of you have been trapped in absolutely dire circumstances, where the average moderate quality folder just didn't cut it, and you were severely injured, or killed because of it?

The fact is, if you are using a knife as a knife, almost anything that gets talked about of decent quality on this forum will perform just fine. I just cut up a ton of carpet and had to slice through drywall with my swayback jack. It's a slipjoint. It did fine. When I was at another camp site from where my F1 was stowed recently, and wanted to split some wood (no axe available) I used my CRKT m16 EDC. It was $18 bucks. While batoning the wood, I stressed the pivot, and the knife came apart. Then I put it back together, and kept batoning. It still works. Does that make it a HARD USE folder?

Will it blend?

Here's a couple pictures of my Grandfather's knife that I just found. He carried it every day starting sometime during WWII. I personally saw him cut metal, carve wood, and do many other tasks with it, and he probably did a lot more in the 40 years before that. Go ahead and show me all the trials and tribulations your knife has endured, and the many times it saved your life, or other peoples lives. I wonder if my Grandfather sat around on a forum, anxiously debating if this knife was strong enough for him to own. Did he sit on a log and perform a bunch of spine whack tests until it failed, and then discussed wether or not it was suitable for hard use?

The real truth here is folders are so good these days, when used as a knife, lots and lots of them are suitable for Hard Use...just not necessarily Abuse.

So with that how about you guys just admit your knife addiction, and confess that you prefer "overbuilt" super tough and beefy feeling knives, instead of looking for ways to justify their weight, cost, size and shape, and get on with buying more of them?

 

[singularity35]

I think all this hard use knife stuff is total crap.

The only two hard use knives I have used, are a fallkniven F1, and a Bark river bravo 1. And the only reason in my opinion they can be considered hard use, is because I am able to use them in place of an axe, (not how the knife was intended) in an emergency situation.

I think the idea of a hard use folder is kind of a joke, given that any real hard use and you might as well just get a fixed blade.


-Freq

Yeah here's the thing though, this situation is entirely different.

You aren't quietly driving your Ferrari, and having people inquire about it. You are making test videos, and posting about the merits of/features of/capabilities of Hard Use knives, and then classifying knives as such.

Obviously I'm not the only person that finds this interesting, or else this thread wouldn't exist. The ferrari example doesn't really apply at all. It again highlights the fact that you seem to think that a Hard Use folder is somehow better than other folders. If I had to guess, it is probably because you (and others) are searching for a way to justify the cost of things like Striders, Hinderers, Benchmades, Spyderco's etc.

A better example would be if you were discussing Demolition road cars, and then citing Ferrari because they are generally fast. When in reality, Ferrari's by their very design and nature are not built for Demolition derby's at all. By their very design they are weaker than a Honda/Toyota because their design is made to go fast, not be durable. Sure they get you there faster than other sports cars, but they are still inherently gimped compared to a Honda or a Toyota when it comes to how many times you can run it into things.

Top Gear actually did this exact kind of test with a Porsche 911. When they were done, they didn't go out and suggest everyone go buy a 911 in place of a bulldozer because it could be crashed into a tree more times.

And that's exactly what a Hard Use folder is. It's a misnomer. Folder's by design are not for Hard Use Abuse, they never have been, and they never will be. Sure some are more robust than others, but by design they are for light duty compared to a fixed blade.

I don't think anyone is questioning or trying to get you Hard Use guys to justify why you like your knives. I think instead they can't understand why you place merit in something that by it's very nature is not made to withstand Hard Use/Abuse.

It's like trying to use a Rolex as a shovel. It might hold up better in an emergency situation than a Casio G-Shock, but you could still have planned better and brought the right tool.

"But I want to know what my Rolex can do, just in case I have to push it to its limits and use it as a shovel. What if its the only watch on me, and due to many possible constraints I can't carry a shovel...in that case, I want to know my Rolex can dig as well as possible."

The fact is, if you are using a knife as a knife, almost anything that gets talked about of decent quality on this forum will perform just fine. I just cut up a ton of carpet and had to slice through drywall with my swayback jack. It's a slipjoint. It did fine. When I was at another camp site from where my F1 was stowed recently, and wanted to split some wood (no axe available) I used my CRKT m16 EDC. It was $18 bucks. While batoning the wood, I stressed the pivot, and the knife came apart. Then I put it back together, and kept batoning. It still works. Does that make it a HARD USE folder?

Will it blend?

The truth here is knives are so good these days, when used as a knife, lots and lots of them are suitable for Hard Use...just not Abuse.

After all is said and done, here you come repeating a sentiment that has been posted oh, countless times , and answered about the same number of times in this thread and other threads. The answers are there if you care to read them, however, the question is, would you accept them? I guess that repetition serves when there's nothing new.

 

[freq18hz]

After all is said and done, here you come repeating a sentiment that has been posted oh, countless times , and answered about the same number of times in this thread and other threads. The answers are there if you care to read them, however, the question is, would you accept them? I guess that repetition serves when there's nothing new.

Yeah, its a sentiment that has to be repeated, because in every Hard Use thread, no one shows any evidence of Hard Use, that's why the OP created the thread. Because there isn't any. Like I said, a Hard Use folder is a misnomer. The only threads I consider highlight Hard Use of a folder, are the ones where the blade has snapped, or the knife is otherwise broken while using it as a knife, not a reverse log spine whacking device.

 

[Ankerson]

After all is said and done, here you come repeating a sentiment that has been posted oh, countless times , and answered about the same number of times in this thread and other threads. The answers are there if you care to read them, however, the question is, would you accept them? I guess that repetition serves when there's nothing new.

That's because they aren't reading the whole thread.

Some are just reading a few posts then repeat the exact same questions that have already been asked and answered a number of times already.

Or just like the other number of threads on the same topic and the countless number of times the questions have been asked and answered over the past 10 years.

 

[freq18hz]

People have read the thread, they just aren't satisfied with your answers obviously.

Let's see some of that Hard Use!

 

[Ankerson]

People have read the thread, they just aren't satisfied with your answers obviously.

Let's see some of that Hard Use!

Then they likely never will be be.

This same debate has been going on forever and I am not just talking about folders either, the exact same debate has come up a countless number of times on the topic of fixed blades too.

It's the slicers vers the beaters (Heavy Duty) knives.

It will never end.....

Some of us get tired of answering the same questions with the same answers over and over and over month after month, year after year...

Ford vers Chevy

Intel vers AMD

Etc, etc, etc....

 

[OrangeJoe]

This thread has the worst analogies I've had to endure in a long, long time.

That is all; carry on.

 

[freq18hz]

Well Ankerson, you've been here a long time, I'm new this year, so I'm not sure about what you've answered in the past. But in the threads I've seen so far, I don't see any answers, and I've read most of them.

For instance, really I have no idea what kind of knife task you can perform with your Strider, that I can't perform with my cheapest locking folder.

The OP just wants to see some hard use, as do I. People want to know WHY you folks hold these knives in high regard. It never gets answered, except in a situation where you are using it for something other than a knife, or in a hypothetical context. It feels like we are beating a dead horse at this point, and I don't want the thread to turn negative at all, but really I will retire while saying I find this entire topic incredibly bewildering, and therefore silly. I get that some people like big thick heavy folding knives, but I don't understand what makes them a better knife. Often times, it seems the reverse to me.

 

[Picksmith]

What's with the trolls... Just because a knife isn't "hard use" doesn't mean that it isn't a damn good knife. Pretty sure Ankerson likes his Endura, and I like my spydies too.

I dug up flowers in a neglected garden today with a folding knife. Why, because my shovel's handle broke! If digging threw the root strewn gravel filled dirt to pry loose a few flower bulbs isn't hard use, then I don't know what is.