"Hard Use" knives?

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marthinus said:
Was that automatics you used? BTW. Thanks for your service!
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Had both type of Benchmades and yes it was an automatic that failed to open. And yes, I was pretty particular when it came to maintenance, so the failure to open was not due to dirt/sand/etc....
 
cziv said:
I like big bad-a** folders Hinderer, Strider, Demko - cuz I like 'em. Hell even a CS Recon -1 will work but my Rajah 1 will do better. You never know when you'll have to go Navy Seal on a ballistic gel assailant - and I want to survive and have my folder looking cool while doing it...:D:D

Who posted that to baton through a small section of a limb with a hard use folder was dumb (or something like that). My Rajah 1 will make one fall in 2 peices from fear man.

What's that Ordinance Disposal soldier using is that a Spyderco in his hand? :p
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How often do you actually have this problem?
 
That cqc8 tip stayed intact after being used to open about 16 bags of quickcrete. I agree, an smf is like an Emerson on roids. I was very impressed with what that knife could take, but I don't care for the liner lock. I also liked how easily it opened with gloves on. Hard use is very subjective.
 
mjolnir74 said:
That cqc8 tip stayed intact after being used to open about 16 bags of quickcrete. I agree, an smf is like an Emerson on roids. I was very impressed with what that knife could take, but I don't care for the liner lock. I also liked how easily it opened with gloves on. Hard use is very subjective.
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Totally agree on both.:thumbup:
 
USMCBombBoy said:
Not to be a d!ck, but its "Ordnance".....I worked on IEDs, not civil statutes.;)
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Are those pictures of you? Good show man! I wouldn't do that job - glad somebody does though.

How often do you actually have this problem?
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My post was to explain that I like and carry hard use folders because I LIKE to. Several people were "questioning all the reasons for hard use knife ownership" - that reason is good enough. I want to. I have Benchmades & Spydercos, Kershaws etc. but I like the really tough folders "just because I do" and since it's my collection and my dollars, that should be a fair enough reason. I'm sure I'm not alone either. :)
 
I'm not bashing the knives; hell, my little knife of preference is the Benchmade 755 MPR.:)
My normal carry these days switches between my Umnumzaan and one of the SmF's. I ocassionally carry a Spyderco like my Kris, but the love of G-10 and titanium (oh sweet, precious titanium:D) have made me gravitate to these ones for the most part.
I might slip a Spyderco in my left pocket to keep the other knife company.
It's like that classic Simpson's thing:
"I thought a man who had two wives would be happy."
"No, you're thinking of a man with two knives."
"Yeah, this is pretty sweet." (Moe holding two knives).
:D
 
cziv said:
Are those pictures of you? Good show man! I wouldn't do that job - glad somebody does though.



My post was to explain that I like and carry hard use folders because I LIKE to. Several people were "questioning all the reasons for hard use knife ownership" - that reason is good enough. I want to. I have Benchmades & Spydercos, Kershaws etc. but I like the really tough folders "just because I do" and since it's my collection and my dollars, that should be a fair enough reason. I'm sure I'm not alone either. :)
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I believe that the point of the thread was that the originator questioned; whether people actually need a hard use folder, what is a hard use folder, how is that calibrated, should there ultimately be some set of standards around setting that standard and ultimately is the industry pushing/representing products that the public may not need. I think that owning one because "I like big bad-a** folders" and "cuz I like 'em" is fine.
 
EnduringEagle said:
I believe that the point of the thread was that the originator questioned; whether people actually need a hard use folder, what is a hard use folder, how is that calibrated, should there ultimately be some set of standards around setting that standard and ultimately is the industry pushing/representing products that the public may not need. I think that owning one because "I like big bad-a** folders" and "cuz I like 'em" is fine.
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Yes, exactly.:):thumbup:
 
stabman said:
No I don't; this is you projecting onto me for whatever reason.
People (other than perhaps two) HAVEN'T told me why they "need" them.
SOME have told me why they WANT them, which is entirely different (and entirely okay:thumbup:).
If you (or I) want to buy a "hard use" folder, go for it; I have many times.
But I don't buy it that there are legions of people who NEED them. If there were, they'd be sharing their stories of using them hard, rather than testing them hard.
Use is generally a necessary thing, whereas testing is not, unless you are the manufacturer, or a paid tester.
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One of the reasons I "need" them has to do with confidence. I'm not referring to just any sort of confidence, but the kind necessary in a really stressful situation. If I don't have a fixed blade available in that kind of situation, I want the biggest, meanest looking, toughest, strongest knife available, where having just any old folder might not be adequate. Better than a "hard use folder" would be a big, wicked sharp kitchen knife. Lacking that, I'd want not just one monster strong folder, but two or three of them. I hope that's understandable.
 
Theres no such thing as a hard use knife in a folder and all yous guys is suckers for even thinkin so and all the folders just like all the cars made today have too much plastic in em and theys junk! Junk I tell ya! And thats my opinion and I'm entitled to it! Don't ya dare fight with me none over it neither cause my dogs bigger than yer dog ya hear!? :grumpy:

Hey that felt pretty good. :D How'd I do there? :eek:

STR
 
Seriously. Some people are just hard on everything. I have friends like that and it doesn't matter if its their car, their knife, or somethin' of mine I loan em even for a short time. They just have this abrasive nature and its totally natural, unintentional I think on their part. Its just how they are. My friend Greg could come in here and be alone for five minutes with my guitar and I would be able to tell he had been fiddling on it after he left the first time i picked it up to play something after that because my strings would be all gritty form the acid oil on his fingers. So for these types alone a harder use knife is probably a good thing.

STR
 
i use and ABUSE my zt500...i've even stirred paint with it...i don't think twice about doing ANYTHING with it...it cleans out just fine too...IF it were to fail/break, big deal; i'd just get it replaced.

i don't save my "cheap" knives for hard tasks.
 
philwar said:
I like extra capacities in things I buy. I like a waterproof cellphone. I like 4-wheel drive cars, etc, etc. Doesn't mean I'll always use it, but it's good to know it's there.
I hope that explains it. :thumbup:
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:thumbup::thumbup:
 
One more thought(s) to ponder...

I have read various versions of stories regarding handing over a knife to someone who attempts to flick/deploy/act cool/whatever with it and ends up accidentally flinging the knife which eventually touches down on concrete and goes skidding along getting scratched up in the process.

I do not care HOW hardcore/tough/badass/whatever the knife is, I am still going to cringe at seeing what I see as needless damage inflicted on a carelessly handled knife.

I think that may be a contributing factor to these threads/debates. Many people have a hard time seeing knives get beat up on for reasons they feel are unwarranted or improper...still others have a hard time seeing knives NOT get beat up on as they were designed to be.

Peace!
 
unit said:
One more thought(s) to ponder...

I have read various versions of stories regarding handing over a knife to someone who attempts to flick/deploy/act cool/whatever with it and ends up accidentally flinging the knife which eventually touches down on concrete and goes skidding along getting scratched up in the process.

I do not care HOW hardcore/tough/badass/whatever the knife is, I am still going to cringe at seeing what I see as needless damage inflicted on a carelessly handled knife.

I think that may be a contributing factor to these threads/debates. Many people have a hard time seeing knives get beat up on for reasons they feel are unwarranted or improper...still others have a hard time seeing knives NOT get beat up on as they were designed to be.

Peace!
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+1 on this
 
Ankerson said:
MOST people can't carry a fixed blade around with them due to a variety of reasons these days so your point isn't valid for the general public or the majority.

That FB won't do anybody any good if it's sitting at the house when they aren't home now will it?
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If I'm going out somewhere where I am actually going to need the strength of a fixed blade, or potentially need it, then I take them with me. That would be a place where other tools aren't available, given that Hard Use generally means Abuse because the right tool for the job isn't available. They are in my emergency kit. I don't go hiking, or camping without them.

An Izula is a small fixed blade, far more capable than any "Hard Use" folder, and easily as stowable. It is one of the fixed blades currently in my waterproof camping/hiking emergency kit So in reality, in my opinion, all the hard use folder stuff is crap. Show me an environment where you would realistically require strength that the average folder doesn't provide, and I'm willing to bet it is an environment that you could plan better for, and carry a fixed blade instead.

And no offense (really I respect you, and your contributions), but your videos in particular while showing ways to break folding knives, really have very little to do with reality or actual situations requiring a strong knife.

To answer the Original Poster: I think this "Hard Use" knife thing is just a big machismo thing where people want to believe they have some kind of security provided by a tool that wasn't by it's very nature designed to be used in a manner I consider "Hard Use".

Hard use to me, is being stuck in a situation where you have to use a knife to endlessly cut hard materials like wood or metal, while retaining an edge, or used as an axe, prybar, etc. repeatedly without servicing or tools to repair the knife. Fixed blades are infinitely more capable when it comes to extreme abuse.

Show me a folder being "Used Hard" without refrain, and I'll show you a broken knife.

If anyone is willing to take the challenge, go ahead and send me your hard use folder, and I'll put it up against one of my fixed blades in a real Hard Use (and likely) scenario and we'll see how long your knife lasts.
 
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Hey, I fall under the "hard on everything" category. I am not overly abusive to my tools, but definitely push them. Knowing this, I tend to gravitate towards more heavily built tools.

Some choose to buy things and never use the tool to its full potential, others buy the tools and use them to 110%. The persons needs, and their usage of each tool, along with their perception, will dictate what they buy.

For cutting a tire, some may use an Endura, some may use an MPR, others will use a Horton. Same job, but who is using the right tool? Realistically, a Sawzall with the proper blade on it would be a better choice...

Who cares who uses what? If they are willing to accept the compromises that must be made for the tool they choose to carry, there must be an acceptable reason for them to do so.

Edit: Of course, perception plays a HUGE role in what people carry, as perception of suitability for certain tasks is often vastly different than actual ability...which only becomes known through actual use...so at times experience trumps the tool itself.
 
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Ankerson said:
I don't think you understand what I mean. ;)

If a person is used to carrying a fixed blade and doing may tasks with them, these people know who they are and what and why they carry them. I am one of these people who always used to carry fixed blades, but now I can't carry one all the time. I didn't grow up in the city or Suburbs in some development, I lived way out in the country most of my life. Add in my Military background and you might start to get the idea.

Say the same person now can't carry that Fixed Blade for whatever the reason may be, but still needs to do those same tasks. The person will need a strong folder that can take the same use or nearly the same use that that FB did with out either breaking or falling apart etc.

This isn't about Slip Joints and cleaning fingernails.

This is about people who really do feel the need for a fixed blade or a folder approaching fixed blade strength.
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Sorry, I don't buy it. What tasks are you talking about? I've never seen a folder than can take anywhere near the same Hard Use as a fixed blade.

I think you should change your terminology. Why not say Robust? A strider for instance may be more Robust when it comes to abuse than a slip joint, but using the term Hard Use and continuing to mention fixed blade replacement is just silly in my opinion. It's kind of like equipping a crane operator with a pully wheel, a few weights, and some rope. Yeah you can hoist things, but you aren't going to be picking up any buildings and moving them around, not without causing damage to you or your tool.

I think the original poster had the right idea...I'd love to see some of these super hard used folders, and these real world tasks that people are forced to perform with them, where they just had no ability whatsoever to use a fixed blade.

No more spinewhack tests while sitting on a log, let's see the real deal. I'm willing to bet no one can provide a "Hard Use" situation that occurs often enough to need a particular knife for it where:

A) They had to use the folding knife on their person to accomplish said task instead of another tool

B) They had no ability whatsoever to prepare more effectively by packing a fixed blade

C) A non Hard Use folder would not have gotten the job done
 
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