Hartsfield?

RE---Thanks! The "apple seed", can be produced on some pretty thin stock.
 
The apple seed edge is just that. In the shape of an apple seed. Even a decent double bit ax has it. The Japanese edges are much finer. More of a true flat, ending in infinity on many of them. Not much of an apple seed there at all.

A true apple seed is easy for the maker to sharpen with a slack belt, on the grinder. because it is thicker that a true flat, it holds its edge a bit longer. But it is hell to resharpen when it gets really dull. Whats worse, it doesn't take many full sharpenings before the blade has to be reground to regain its fine edge. They became all the rage back in the 70's thanks to ken Warrner. But for any kind of really fine cutting, they are just about useless.

What makes a Hartsfield blade hold such a great edge is that they are ground out of A-2 No magic there at all. A-2 has been around for a long time. It just isn't used by many makers these days. It doesn't forge well. So it is out for the Forgers, and it is way too east to stain, and rust for most of the stock removal guys to care anything for it.
I have examined a lot of Hartsfield knives over the years. It's not that I'm not impressed with the sharp edge of a Hartsfield knife. It is that I am so unimpressed with just how many makers put their knives out there without a good edge. Seem to me if a man wants to make a living making knives, the first thing he should learn is how to shape the knife, and edge to do the work intended.

Or at least you would think so. A dull knife is just an over priced pry bar!
 
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michael....thank you for that post.....it's nice to hear a maker like yourself say something like that....i find that way too many makers do not know to put a good edge on a knife.....ryan
 
I beg to differ on the fact that because it's A2, makes the edge good. If everyone heat treats A2 the same, then why bother sending it to someone to heat treat. I use A2, and i know for a FACT that I cannot heat treat it as well as Phill can. Will it hold an edge longer than most stainless steels? Probably! Will it rust? Definitely! The name and reputation and warranty also define the price. It is pretty? Probably not. Will it get you out of a jam incase you have to cut your way out of it? Most likely!
 
What is it about Blade Forums? I don't give a damed what you say,
Some SOB just has to argue. Just has to try to start crap. Look fella. A-2 is a simple steel. If you can't get it right, send it out, or go to school! It's science. (Metallurgy) Not magic!

Nothing in my previous post should have upset anyone. Any Knife Maker worth his or her salt would already know what I've said! This is a job. Not a game.


M. Lovett
 
ML---Can A2 be heat treated with a hard edge and soft spine? Just a question. :)
 
It can. I own several of Sean Perkins' knives (no longer in business unfortunately) and they are all A2. Visible temper line on them all. Sean used to use a salt water bath for his A2 knives and according to him, more often than not they would crack, but the ones that made it were going to be keepers. He is the only person I know of who did/does this type of heat treatment. Most A2 knives are not differentially heat treated.
 
No other knife cut as well and as long than my PH Kozuka. So, was this due to the HT that Phill uses? Thanks.
 
Yes it can be done. As chiro pointed out. This is where the job not a game part comes into play. A2 is an air hardening steel. So you have to be extremely careful with other types of quench. No maker depending on making knives for a living can afford to loose a regular amount of his blades to cracking during heat treat. Especially the way a Loveless or Lovett is made. The guard must be fitted to exact tolerances and removed before heat treat. Not to mention all major grinding. No way could we afford to loose all of this work on a regular basis. Not and stay in business. The part time maker can afford to play a lot more. But the part time maker, as well as the hobiest is doing it for fun more times than not. If they screw up, they still get to eat, and pay bills.

Saying that no other knife cuts as well and long is kind'a like saying that no other car runs as well or as long as a Chevy Malibu. Well that is one opinion. One of many different opinions. This is why there are different models and brands. Both cars, Knives, and just about anything else. A2 has some great attributes. In other areas it is lacking. There are steels that it cannot out cut. There are steel that it surpasses. That is the way with steels. They all have their place. Buy what you like, Just don't expect everyone to like the same characteristics in a given product that you do. Ain't going to happen. That is the very reason this thread is here in the first place.
M. Lovett
 
Lycosa said:
No other knife cut as well and as long than my PH Kozuka. So, was this due to the HT that Phill uses? Thanks.
Click to expand...

That would depend. Are you comparing it to other knives with the same steel Rc hardness, grind, thickness of edge, angle of sharpening? A lot goes into making knives perform in different tasks.

M.Lovett
 
Michael Lovett said:
What is it about Blade Forums? I don't give a damed what you say,
Some SOB just has to argue. Just has to try to start crap. Look fella. A-2 is a simple steel. If you can't get it right, send it out, or go to school! It's science. (Metallurgy) Not magic!

Nothing in my previous post should have upset anyone. Any Knife Maker worth his or her salt would already know what I've said! This is a job. Not a game.


M. Lovett
Click to expand...

Who is upset? No one. Definitely not me. I am just stating what I have seen in real life and what a blade heat treated by Phill can do. Simple. This is a Hartsfield thread, so of course there will be disagreement, arguing, etc etc. Good day. No need for name calling please. I am not here to upset anyone and anyone that does get upset by a comment I made has got too much time on their hands.
 
A2 is a simple tool steel and like other knife making steels doesn't have a "magical" or "special" way to heat treat it.

If the maker/ heat treater knows what they're doing (ie. following a text book correct method of heat treating) will yield a very good knife.

Whether it was heat treated by Phil or Paul or anyone else doesn't matter, as long as every step taken is text book correct.

IMHO, Phil just knows how to properly sharpen a knife. ;)
 
Michael Lovett said:
Yes it can be done. As chiro pointed out. This is where the job not a game part comes into play. A2 is an air hardening steel. So you have to be extremely careful with other types of quench. No maker depending on making knives for a living can afford to loose a regular amount of his blades to cracking during heat treat. Especially the way a Loveless or Lovett is made. The guard must be fitted to exact tolerances and removed before heat treat. Not to mention all major grinding. No way could we afford to loose all of this work on a regular basis. Not and stay in business. The part time maker can afford to play a lot more. But the part time maker, as well as the hobiest is doing it for fun more times than not. If they screw up, they still get to eat, and pay bills.

Saying that no other knife cuts as well and long is kind'a like saying that no other car runs as well or as long as a Chevy Malibu. Well that is one opinion. One of many different opinions. This is why there are different models and brands. Both cars, Knives, and just about anything else. A2 has some great attributes. In other areas it is lacking. There are steels that it cannot out cut. There are steel that it surpasses. That is the way with steels. They all have their place. Buy what you like, Just don't expect everyone to like the same characteristics in a given product that you do. Ain't going to happen. That is the very reason this thread is here in the first place.
M. Lovett
Click to expand...

Well said! :)
 
Lycosa said:
Wasn't A2 developed as a steel that cuts other steel?
Click to expand...

Why should it matter in any way? Steel cutting isn't per se a relevant characteristic for a knife. How often do you have to cut steel?
 
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