Has anyone done a any lubrication friction testing?

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Nov 20, 2016
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With all the great minds and tinkering hearts on this forum someone must have done some lubrication friction testing. ?????

I bought a tube of Quick Release oil as I had read some good reviews. It worked pretty well. I also have Nano oil that I have used for nearly a year. I have also used Sentry Solutions Tuf-Glide. Mineral oil.... I also have some Finishline Extreme fluoro something or other lub. Also used some Sentry Solutions BP2000 (like a carbon powder based lube). In years past 3 in 1 and WD40.

I think I have read all of the knife lubrication posts.

And what I have found are lots and lots of opinions. Nano Oil IS THE BEST..... NO ITS SNAKE OIL. I only use Frog Lube. Mineral Oil is all you will ever need and all these lube are just fancy mineral oil...... Sound Familiar?

I would like to use the best lube for the contact point of the detent ball with the steel blade tang. That is all I care about. My opinion, is if you have any sort of bearings, the detent ball is controlling the action once the ball has left the hole.

Anyone disagree with that point?

It ought to be easy to do some comparison testing. I am imagining a steel plate with a 600 finish ( you could try this test with 1000 finish, 2000, 4000, polished). Then in a bar of steel about the same weight as a 3-4" blade put 3 detent ball holes. Press 3 SS or Ceramic (two test series) into the holes. Three so that the test bar is supported by the balls.

Drill one detent hole in the steel plate.

Clean balls and plate well.

Lift plate up 5 degrees. lift bar till ball in hole is released. Does it slide. if not try 10 degrees. Continue till it starts to slide. If I remember my physics class there are two friction factors. One is the first start of movement and the other is to continue movement. We probably are interested in the larger force associated with the initial movement.

Record angle.

Repeat with one of the lubes.

Record angle,

Clean

Repeat with another lube

And so on.

lowest angle wins

Would that work.... I may have the material to try this.
 
Interesting, definitely will be following this one
 
Cool. Please do that experiment. There are some other variables, however. How long does the lubrication last? How much dirt and gunk does it attract? How dependent on temperature is the performance? Etc.

From my experience (falling for every marketing claim that comes my way), fluorinated grease works best.
 
Lube also provides protection from corrosion, reduces bearing chatter, reduces friction, reduces wear. Some attract dust and debris while others do not. Some last a long time while others do not. Do you require food safe or not?. Hot weather or cold weather? Can you encompass the full picture if you do. Focusing just on lubricity for the detent alone skews the picture for most. In any case interesting idea. Finding a measurable way is going to be difficult.
 
Lube also provides protection from corrosion, reduces bearing chatter, reduces friction, reduces wear. Some attract dust and debris while others do not. Some last a long time while others do not. Do you require food safe or not?. Hot weather or cold weather? Can you encompass the full picture if you do. Focusing just on lubricity for the detent alone skews the picture for most. In any case interesting idea. Finding a measurable way is going to be difficult.

If the bearings in your knives are chattering then you have a serious problem my friend!
 
ZX1 is good stuff, It has an NATO part NO, you have to import it as you cannot buy it in the US last time i checked.


John.
 
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With all the great minds and tinkering hearts on this forum someone must have done some lubrication friction testing. ?????

I bought a tube of Quick Release oil as I had read some good reviews. It worked pretty well. I also have Nano oil that I have used for nearly a year. I have also used Sentry Solutions Tuf-Glide. Mineral oil.... I also have some Finishline Extreme fluoro something or other lub. Also used some Sentry Solutions BP2000 (like a carbon powder based lube). In years past 3 in 1 and WD40.

I think I have read all of the knife lubrication posts.

And what I have found are lots and lots of opinions. Nano Oil IS THE BEST..... NO ITS SNAKE OIL. I only use Frog Lube. Mineral Oil is all you will ever need and all these lube are just fancy mineral oil...... Sound Familiar?

I would like to use the best lube for the contact point of the detent ball with the steel blade tang. That is all I care about. My opinion, is if you have any sort of bearings, the detent ball is controlling the action once the ball has left the hole.

Anyone disagree with that point?

It ought to be easy to do some comparison testing. I am imagining a steel plate with a 600 finish ( you could try this test with 1000 finish, 2000, 4000, polished). Then in a bar of steel about the same weight as a 3-4" blade put 3 detent ball holes. Press 3 SS or Ceramic (two test series) into the holes. Three so that the test bar is supported by the balls.

Drill one detent hole in the steel plate.

Clean balls and plate well.

Lift plate up 5 degrees. lift bar till ball in hole is released. Does it slide. if not try 10 degrees. Continue till it starts to slide. If I remember my physics class there are two friction factors. One is the first start of movement and the other is to continue movement. We probably are interested in the larger force associated with the initial movement.

Record angle.

Repeat with one of the lubes.

Record angle,

Clean

Repeat with another lube

And so on.

lowest angle wins

Would that work.... I may have the material to try this.

On something as light and low load as a knife pivot . . . without testing but with lots of experience using lubes for light mechanisms . . . I would have to say the one with the lowest viscosity if a liquid or graphite particles if a dry lube.

OK we've got that one solved when's dinner ?
;) :)
 
So I did the experiment and used one of the posts above as a guide. Here is a few picts of the setup.
p2447945654-4.jpg


p2447945639-5.jpg

p2447945611-4.jpg

I took a jewelers plate and sanded and polished it down. it still had some scratch but they were very very shallow. I sawed off a fence latch. Drilled 4 holes.... one did not work. Put 3 SS 1.15mm ball bearings in the holes and then set it up as seen. I would slowly fill the plastic cup till the bar started to move and then recorded that. The lubes that I tried were.

1. Dry - nothing
2. 3 in 1 Oil, both light and heave amounts
3. Dry again ( but found that if I did not double clean it with 99% alcohol and lighter fluid I would see some lub effects.
4. Did the same for Sentry Solutions BP2000, Sentry Solutions Tuf-Glide, mineral oil, nano oil, WD-40, Latima Quick Release, and Finish Line Extere Fluoro teflon grease


The Results were:

p2447941783-5.jpg

So... what does this mean. I learned a few things.

1. I assumed that the inital release ranking was the most important. But what I found was that many of the lubes would rank high in release but then the movement would be slow. So maybe the more important feature of a lube for flippers is that once it does release the movement is not slowed by the lube. The BP2000 would be best as it releases the earliest and has a fast action after that. But that stuff is like black carbon powder.... will it stay in place. Like an oily lube does.

2.
The next best lube for release is the teflon grease but then it moves slowly. I might try a really light layer of that.

3. The latima quick release is also fast release but a slow action. Execept that after I cleaned it with alcohol..... it was fast to release and fast action. They claim molecular bonding????? Maybe. I double cleaned it with alcohol and lighter fluid and that removed it. This my be my pick but put it on and wipe it all off , w/o a cleaner.

4. Nano oil was just like the latima in that after I cleaned the parts with just alcohol it was still really slippery and fast action. But the Latima was a bit better.

More conclusions in the next post.
 
I dont use oil. I use red n tacky grease. It stays where you put it and don't dry up. A thin film is all thats needed. My detent balls glides better with it than any oil I've used. I lube my pump shotgun with it too. Its basically ball bearing grease.
 
Other conclusions....
5. Lots of room for errors in the experiment so take the results with grain of salt.
6. In most cases more lube is not as good as less lube.
7. I was surprised that with tuff glide, quick release, and nano oil I cleaned the surfaces a couple times when I was done and they were still really slippery. They are leaving something behind that keep things lubricated. I had to use two solvents with lots of rubbing till the lube was gone. The lesson here is if I use a liquid lube I should wipe it off and whats left will makethe application will be better.
 
Conclusion: I learned that for fast flipper action you can do better with a lube than without one. And you want that lube require the minimum amount of force to start things moving.... and then its like you almost want the lube to disappear. In other words behave like it has extremely low viscosity. So I am going to start trying bp-2000. I might get the lower viscosity nano oil and with that and the quick release use the smallest amount of oil and then wipe it off (without solvent). I may try some other dry lubes. I think my experiment was adequate for doing that.
 
Interesting wish I could do my own setup and some testing of my own just to look for room for improvement for the test.
 
As I've mentioned many times prior less is more. I'm glad this is a conclusion. And also lube stays unless you clean it with solvent like lighter fluid, acetone (don't use acetone on g10) etc. Lots of folks just use alcohol but that does little to nothing.

Have you read this test of 46 options? Read the lubricity section it's interesting.

http://ronkulas.proboards.com/thread/274/review-comparison-gun-care-products?page=1&scrollTo=711

I tried baracade from that and applied too much in the ball bearings of a flipper and detent and was very disappointed, but I'll try again some time with less and see how it goes.

Also did you try water in place of lube? They say water is the best lube, but more or less as a control as waters not a good corrosion inhibitor obviously.

Also @NickShabazz might find this interesting.

One last thing... Can you do a test to see how long that lube lasts for? Cause I have some lubes that are initially great but then cease to work soon after. And some of course that just get gunked up by dust etc. but in any case, applying a lube to the detent may not last very long at all, for example grease just gets moved away after a short amount of time on the detent (its great for other aspects in the bearings or washers, not specifically for fast action tho, but this varies depending on how much is used too).
 
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BTW mill comm products and mc2500 is on sale right now, it's like half off at knife center, recommend a try?
https://www.knifecenter.com/brand/437/Mil-Comm-Products-Company

https://www.knifecenter.com/item/MCM26421/mil-comm-mc2500-oil-20-oz-pump-bottle

Also have you tried mixing lube with grease to reduce the greases viscosity?

Another good lubrication article is from Grant, he recommends a few lubes and why also
http://www.grantcunningham.com/2006/05/lubrication-101/

And just recently the knife nuts podcast went over some lube options and knife maintenance https://knifenuts.net/podcast/2017/7/25/episode-7-lubricans-and-lubricants
 
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The lubrication and machine/food processing industries have already done all the testing...
You think they would run multi million dollar machines on unicorn juice?

This is why I stick with actual food grade industrial lubes...
Lubriplate SFL-0, extremely light grease
And
Lubriplate FMO-350AW, great weight oil

Seriously though.
This stuff is designed to deal with food acids, be about as thin filmed as possible (what most around here would consider dry) and still protect machines that if they go down costs these companies big money.
I have the sfl-0 grease in my steel will cutjack right now... It's not the fastest it's ever been, but it's the smoothest and attracts the least crud it ever has.
 
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