Has PayPal Gone Insane ? Advice Requested

[Gollnick]

Scan the passport. Use photoshop (or similar tool) to block out all of the data except your name, the last four digits of the passport number, and the month and year of its expiration. Either blur the entire picture or black out about 25% of the face right over the eyes. Send them that.

 

[RevDevil]

I'm wondering if this has happened to any US citizens yet?

 

[ooitzoo]

This is not an attempt at identity theft unless PP has now entered the ID theft 'business'.
In my OP i stated i had talked with 2 PP employees on the phone who told me i had to send this info (although then it was drivers licence, now it is passport). To make this call i had to log into my PP account, get a 'password number' and then call the PP phone number.
I am dealing with PayPal.
The Questions are: Why ? and is it legal to ask someone for such personal information as a copy of your passport ? and what is the reason for asking for proof of WHERE i was born ? (London, England, moved to Canada in 1947 at age 1), and why does PP refuse to tell me why the want this information and tell me i would need a lawyer to subpeona them to court to even try to find out why ?
Has it got to do with PP being a spy for the U.S. government and my spending a relatively large amount of money on knives ? I buy collectible vintage Traditional style folders, including little 2" Quill knives, i.e. nothing that could remotely be considered to be 'weapons'.
PP is becoming an increasingly strange business. Because of it's size and control over ebay payments it is able to interfere with a great many people in a personal way.
Is this a sign of a society that claims to value personal freedoms above all else, actually becoming one that controls it's citizens and those who do business with them ?
If i was dealing with China not U.S.A. this kind of privacy invasion and control MIGHT be more expected.
Something strange is going on here that is much larger than just my addiction to knife collecting.
roland

This is looking more and more like a KYC inquiry.

Basically what happens is, with or without cause, financial entities have to check out and vet their clients. This is done to avoid nefarious activity like money laundering or financing of terror/drugs/etc.

The idea is that they check you out and report back to the relevant regulator (possibly DOJ but could be others.) Its also possible that your name got tagged randomly OR there was some non-kosher activity with an account that did business with yours (or any number of degrees removed from yours) and they are checking every account in the chain. Either way, they can't tell you because that could ruin an investigation (or not but the point is that they are obligated to maintain secrecy.)

I'd say do what the two gentlemen above suggested. Send them the info with everything that is non-essential being blocked out.

 

[christopherm903]

I use to use paypal pretty regularly when I was buying and selling stuff on ebay. I had and still have a 100% rating with never a complaint let alone any negitive feedback. A couple of years ago, after a lay off, I decided to sell off some of my nicer knives to keep the lights on. After I sold them, I tried to get my money out of paypal, and they decided it was important to hold my funds for another 45 days, to make sure that anyone who purchased from me did not have a problem. This is after me calling them and asking to release my funds, I had even recieved possitive feedback on all transactions but no convincing them, and it really upset me that they could do this. My only way of getting back so to speak, was to never use them again....
Thanks, Chris

 

[fj40jay]

I went through the same thing, but they verified all that was needed over the phone. Took 3 minutes to clear up.

 

[Fanglekai]

I went through the same thing, but they verified all that was needed over the phone. Took 3 minutes to clear up.

I had to send documentation in for them to remove the limitation on mine. It was incredibly annoying and meant there were several things I was going to buy on here that I ended up unable to purchase because I couldn't use my paypal account. I think they must have various types of limitations and some require documentation while others don't.

The bottom line is paypal does what it wants. I have no idea how they get away with storing copies of drivers licenses and passports, though.

 

[fj40jay]

I had to send documentation in for them to remove the limitation on mine. It was incredibly annoying and meant there were several things I was going to buy on here that I ended up unable to purchase because I couldn't use my paypal account. I think they must have various types of limitations and some require documentation while others don't.

The bottom line is paypal does what it wants. I have no idea how they get away with storing copies of drivers licenses and passports, though.

Yes they do what they want. and that sucks. They had told me that I need to send in something, and I asked if I could speak to a supervisor. I explained that if I didn't have the ability to pay for the auction I just won, then it will affect my user score, and I wasnt about to let that happen. It has happened to me twice now, and both times they start off by saying I need to verify my address and send copy's of something. I thing its like any thing else, it depends on who you get on the phone. If you cant get it resolved, say thanks hang up and call back.

 

[rprocter]

ooitzoo, thanks for your post. On a personal level it is somewhat reassuring to have this explanation.
On a societal level it is troubling to learn of yet another form of monitoring of regular citizens by government and large businesses.
Freedom is lost by increment, each being small enough that although begrudged, is accepted, until ultimately every move by every citizen is monitored.
I fear "America, Land of the Free" is becoming "America, Land of Monitoring Everything".
I'm 65 and the loss of personal freedoms in every aspect of life has been extreme during my lifetime.
I have knuckled-under and sent in the information demanded (not 'asked for') by PP.
I will post the outcome.
Just a note to add how counter productive this is. The money i have spent goes to American 'mom and pop' sellers during a time of severe recession. It comes into the USA from outside the country, i.e. adds wealth to the country, whereas Americans buying from other Americans, is simply circulating the money that is already within the country.
I should be thanked, not treated like a criminal.
roland

 

[ooitzoo]

I had to send documentation in for them to remove the limitation on mine. It was incredibly annoying and meant there were several things I was going to buy on here that I ended up unable to purchase because I couldn't use my paypal account. I think they must have various types of limitations and some require documentation while others don't.

The bottom line is paypal does what it wants. I have no idea how they get away with storing copies of drivers licenses and passports, though.

So does your bank. Keep in mind that the reason PP is doing this isn't to mess with you or to make life more difficult. Its likely because on an external (governmental) demand or internal investigation.

Yes they do what they want. and that sucks. They had told me that I need to send in something, and I asked if I could speak to a supervisor. I explained that if I didn't have the ability to pay for the auction I just won, then it will affect my user score, and I wasnt about to let that happen. It has happened to me twice now, and both times they start off by saying I need to verify my address and send copy's of something. I thing its like any thing else, it depends on who you get on the phone. If you cant get it resolved, say thanks hang up and call back.

Can I ask why you feel its ok for your bank to have this info but not PP? Don't they serve effectively the same purpose?

 

[fj40jay]

Can I ask why you feel its ok for your bank to have this info but not PP? Don't they serve effectively the same purpose?

PP has all the info they need, They want to verify info. My bank NEVER suspends my account or asks me to send in info they already have.

 

[Jack O'Neill]

Roland , there are new USA Federal income tax laws coming down at the end of this year and PP is now ( as many others are ) required to submit to the IRS information on folks spending and making certain amounts of dollars through their site . You are not a US citizen and they may need this proof to comply with our screwed up IRS .

Jack

 

[Allen R.]

happened to me too as i was in the middle of a purchase on here, ended up the seller posting I was a troll and the knife went to someone else. So to the seller who called me a troll over my paypal issues please read this.

 

[KRS1]

Paypal records:

1)computer name
2)label name of hard drive
3)IP address
4)service provider
5)stores flash (LSO) cookies recording your browser history, the DO track forum post if username and seller name is the same.
6)stores regular cookies of course

plus more things i dont know about.

 

[RevDevil]

Paypal records:

1)computer name
2)label name of hard drive
3)IP address
4)service provider
5)stores flash (LSO) cookies recording your browser history, the DO track forum post if username and seller name is the same.
6)stores regular cookies of course

plus more things i dont know about.

Amazon.com among 100s of other sites have access to this information as well. It's not only paypal. Any online merchant can dig this up. As far as tracking forum posts, that might be a stretch.

 

[rprocter]

I just spoke with another agent at the PP Resolution Center. This individual was a little more helpful. She stated that PP is under obligation to collect this information by an "outside agency".
I think that Jack's idea of this originating with the IRS may well be correct.
As most USA sellers will not ship to Canada, i have a USA shipping address, a P.O. box inside the P.O. building in Northport WA.
My banking is in Canada.
Given the relative excess of my PP spending and having a USA shipping address might look like i am a USA national trying to hide income in a Canadian bank.
Hence the demand to provide proof of where i was born. If i was born in the USA the likihood of my being an American would be high.
Had PP stated initially that they are fulfilling obligations of an "outside agency", i would have found it easier to accept.
roland

 

[Los Angeles]

If you've really done $500,000 worth of business and most of it was NOT for auction or websites with checkout features, then it's likely that your account has been flagged for drug money laundering. That's a major problem with Paypal right now, and that's why they won't tell you WHY they need hard proof of your identity.

 

[CWL]

It really may be due to your amount of activity and US attempts to track funds internationally. You just got sucked into it.

OTOH, here is a "spoof" email I just received today for personal data. While these are obvious to me, there are still people who get suckered by these phishing scams.

Dear Customer,

This e-mail has been sent to inform you about recent security measures
taken by PayPal to detect inactive customers and non-functioning mailboxes.

The inactive customers are subject to restriction and removal in the
next 2 months. Please confirm your personal details and credit card
information by opening the file in the attachment that we have sent.

(Issue 931-848-628)

Sincerely,

Security Team Of PayPal

 

[ron_m80]

Roland , there are new USA Federal income tax laws coming down at the end of this year and PP is now ( as many others are ) required to submit to the IRS information on folks spending and making certain amounts of dollars through their site . You are not a US citizen and they may need this proof to comply with our screwed up IRS .

Jack

Not just with paypal I have seen this bahvior pattern a few times in recent years, but I work for a state entity. We have all been told to do much the same thing, submit personal records from different years, or documents, and verify your dependants. If not your benefits package will be cancelled. I think this may be bigger than just your Paypal account. I saw entire business's cleared out of employees nearly overnight in Los angeles because the employer had to submit their verification records on every employee, it seems the HR personel folders were a bit slim in several places.

Maybe it is a much larger net that has been cast?

I personally ditched paypal after trying it out, a $200 dollar calculator has saved me much trouble since then I imagine.

 

[ooitzoo]

ooitzoo, thanks for your post. On a personal level it is somewhat reassuring to have this explanation.
On a societal level it is troubling to learn of yet another form of monitoring of regular citizens by government and large businesses.
Freedom is lost by increment, each being small enough that although begrudged, is accepted, until ultimately every move by every citizen is monitored.
I fear "America, Land of the Free" is becoming "America, Land of Monitoring Everything".
I'm 65 and the loss of personal freedoms in every aspect of life has been extreme during my lifetime.
I have knuckled-under and sent in the information demanded (not 'asked for') by PP.
I will post the outcome.
Just a note to add how counter productive this is. The money i have spent goes to American 'mom and pop' sellers during a time of severe recession. It comes into the USA from outside the country, i.e. adds wealth to the country, whereas Americans buying from other Americans, is simply circulating the money that is already within the country.
I should be thanked, not treated like a criminal.
roland

Welcome to the nanny state. I'm not sure how they do it in Canada but in the US these are absolutely normal things to be asked when opening a bank account.

Just don't take it personally. I can assure you that you are one of 1000s of people that this happens to.

PP has all the info they need, They want to verify info. My bank NEVER suspends my account or asks me to send in info they already have.

What do you base this on?

The bank has never done it you it does not mean that they haven't done it to others. Banks have actually done FAR FAR worse then simply locking your account. They've falsely kicked people out of their homes, boarded their pets, and auctioned/lost their personal belongings only to realize that they got the address wrong. Trust me, its far from Utopian.

I just spoke with another agent at the PP Resolution Center. This individual was a little more helpful. She stated that PP is under obligation to collect this information by an "outside agency".
I think that Jack's idea of this originating with the IRS may well be correct.
As most USA sellers will not ship to Canada, i have a USA shipping address, a P.O. box inside the P.O. building in Northport WA.
My banking is in Canada.
Given the relative excess of my PP spending and having a USA shipping address might look like i am a USA national trying to hide income in a Canadian bank.
Hence the demand to provide proof of where i was born. If i was born in the USA the likihood of my being an American would be high.
Had PP stated initially that they are fulfilling obligations of an "outside agency", i would have found it easier to accept.
roland

Yep. Just take it in stride and move on.

 

[fj40jay]

What do you base this on?

I base this on my experience. What should I base it on? It seems like to me no matter what i say you choose to dispute it.
Yes banks are EVIL, EVIL Bastards. And with that same logic, I could find faults and flaws with every thing in this world.