Haters Gonna Hate, Ganzo at BladeHQ but the price?!?

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Meh. I'm not much for Chinese knives, but out of curiosity I bought a Ganza some time ago for a looksee because my son who works in construction uses one as his daily work knife. He's been very happy with his, so I had to see what it was that he liked.

My comments on the one that I purchased.
>Original design. Didn't match anything I've seen produced by anyone else until fairly recently. But it was unique when I bought it.
>Supposed to be 440C. Definitely stainless. Definitely had carbides. Edge retention is about right. Might be 9Cr13MoV, but it's pretty close to 440C.
>Axis lock and bearings. Axis lock patent had already expired when I purchased the knife. Not a fan of bearings, but they work. I've used it in the back yard on gardening projects. and it hasn't had any issues.
>Built like a brick telephone booth with full metal liners and G10. Belt and suspenders approach. Heavy, but robust. Edges were smooth. Better quality than on some American-Chinese efforts I've seen. Handle was generic but ergonomic.

I have no interest in purchasing another, and I agree that they need to stop producing clones. However, I can't fault them for the quality of the product they are producing.
 
I haven't bought anything from bladehq in a long time, so I'm not boycotting them. It's just another reason to shop elsewhere.

I think they are banking on people not knowing what Ganzo is, people just looking at inexpensive knives.

If Ganzo had been smart, they would have started a whole new brand of "legit" knives, and not be associated whatsoever with the Ganzo name. Nobody would have known.

As much as I like many of the designs, I'm done buying Chinese knives, even the good ones. I'm limiting myself to one or two knives per year, mid tech or custom. I'm planning to go to Blade show Texas and pick up a custom if I can scrape up the coinage.
 
Chronovore said:
Haters love to hate on Ganzo for both aping designs from other companies and mashing up their design features.
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You: I wonder how I can insult people for a legitimate reason for disliking a company that steals from Americans, when they're in the right, and I'm in the wrong. I Know!
 
K.O.D. said:
Well since it's on blade HQ, I have no choice but to order 3. I bet I can flip them for double on ebay once they sell out!
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Hackenslash said:
The Ganzo Firebird original designs aren't bad knives. They seem to have met their stated specifications on a fairly consistent basis. They are generally similar to a knife-like-object.

That being said; I'm out. Out on Ganzo and now, out on BladeHQ.

Ganzo owes a great big Mea Culpa to the assorted knife designers and manufacturers of the global community. They need to pull those bizarre, morphed clones off the market (RATs with a cloned Axis Locks, before the Axis Lock was public propriety, Et Al) Those abominations need to be removed from their revenue stream. They need to join the community of knifemakers, as have WE, Reate and Kizer, and be contributing members of the community. You can make a great knife but still be a scumbag that doesn't deserve a hard earned knife dollar.

I've bought a lot of knives from BladeHQ. I wonder if they'll notice my business is gone.
Any comments, BladeHQ BladeHQ ?

Also, in on ONE!
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Second this if true. I don't buy cheap Chinese knives or knock off versions of knives and I don't buy from companies that support those sorts of shenanigans. Will they miss me? I doubt it, but the feeling is mutual.

Now about that trolling....
 
MadeOnABench said:
... if you're gonna make a thread acknowledging that supporting a specific company is controversial, you should expect people to have opposing viewpoints. Maybe instead of dismissing people with opinions different from yours as being "haters," you should perhaps take more time considering the reasons and logic behind their opinions...
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I get the controversy. I also completely understand the position held by Hackenslash and others. I've gone down that rabbit hole so far I had to dig out the dirt at the bottom. For any who are actually interested...

There are a few different arguments involved. First is the anti-China stuff but that really should be a separate conversation. Given that such a conversation is inevitably political, such a conversation should take place in the dedicated sub-forum for politics.

Second is the argument that Ganzo has a history of "stealing". Of course, stealing and copying (to whatever extent) are different things and not everyone is intellectually honest about the difference. (We also sometimes see conflation between copying and counterfeiting. The latter involves an additional step of intentional fraud and that's not what Ganzo is doing.) Many in the opposition lean on "IP theft" here but that's a legal construct. It's ultimately much more complicated and nuanced than hardly anyone making claims about it here actually understands. Whether or not something legally constitutes IP theft is not a matter of some dude-bro pointing a finger and saying it does.

Some object that "it really is stealing because it steals sales". That's voodoo economics. You can't steal a potential sale. Such a proposition is counterfactual by definition. There exist any number of possible reasons for consumers deciding to buy or not buy a product, including any number of other alternatives, including but not limited to "legitimate" options that are actually in the same range of price or quality. (Remember again that we are not talking about counterfeits or deception.) Some further object that "Sal Glesser says so" but that's an argument from authority by definition and has no logical bearing on the true statements presented here, no matter how smart, cool, or otherwise amazing the man is. Speaking of...

Third is "fruit of the poisoned tree" or "Ganzo can't do anything good because they also do bad and any support of them in any way is always bad". There are two important problems here. First is that a lot of outsourced manufacturing goes on in the dark and nobody knows what OEM work Ganzo does for any other company. So it's possible that some of the people arguing against Ganzo have purchased Ganzo-made products without knowing it and are therefore guilty of supporting Ganzo. Second is that Sal Glesser himself would be guilty under this type of argument, as would anyone buying any Spyderco knife. This is because Spyderco has not only used Sanrenmu for OEM work, they actually invested in Sanrenmu and helped to train them to get their skills up to the task. (If that's not "support", I don't know what is.) For anyone who doesn't know, Sanrenmu has been doing the same thing as Ganzo for many years with their Land series of aped CRK designs.

Now, none of this means that Ganzo's copying efforts are good. I'm not saying that copying the designs of others is a good thing. I'm not saying that Ganzo is a righteous or morally good company. I'm even willing to call Ganzo's copying "distasteful". The point is just that they are not the bastions of evil that the opposition here would have people believe and they don't cause the level of harm that the opposition claims. The logic behind the opposition's claims does not hold up.

What remains when all that melts away is emotion. Now, emotion is not logical and people can hate whomever or whatever they want. An important issue for me is when that becomes activism. It's on display here with people claiming that they will be boycotting BladeHQ, a supporting dealer here, because they carry one model from Ganzo with an original design. That's insane! It's also horribly misguided as far as activism goes. If anyone wants to talk about real activism or the underlying political and economic factors here, please join me in the political sub-forum.
 
Just shut up.

EDIT: Did you actually write another 7 page wall of text about how you illogically justify your broken moral compass to yourself, or is it a direct copy/paste from one of the countless times you spouted this drivel before?

EDIT 2: Don't answer. There's nothing that can be said between us that hasn't already been said a few dozen times. I do have to admit I'm amazed at how you're still able to act surprised and indignant at the responses you get when you bait for them every time. It's almost like you're trolling for oppositional responses.
 
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What I find here fascinating is the lengths OP would go to to defend Ganzo. May I ask why?

Fair enough, that’s your opinion. But you gotta expect that not everyone will have the same viewpoint, and sure, emotion is part of that. I don’t like their business practices and I would refuse every time to buy their products. It’s as simple as that, really.
 
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Planterz Planterz

Differing opinions are allowed in the discussion forum. You can state yours. He can state his.

Keep it civil or receive a warning.
 
DangerZone98 said:
What I find here fascinating is the lengths OP would go to to defend Ganzo. May I ask why? ...
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I'm not actually defending Ganzo. Like I said, I find some of their practices distasteful. Where I tend to go the length is in answering extreme responses to, overblown claims about, or zealous activism against companies like Ganzo or Sanrenmu. I go into detail on this in Post 33 above.

The news here is that a reputable dealer who supports this forum has decided to carry one of Ganzo's originals. AFAIK, this is a first. It's clearly a big deal to some people, as evidenced by some of the boycott talk in the thread so far. I'm also curious about the pricing and how that affects the potential value of a knife like this amidst the current landscape of the budget knife market.

For instance, Petrified Fish first caught on in the West with original knives in similar materials at similar prices on similar websites. When they broke through to this and other reputable dealers, the prices remained the same. Here is a link to their breakthrough model:

Link to non supporting dealer removed.
 
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