Sorry. I *don't* buy it. No one in this country, the land of the free and the home of the brave, should have to leave *anything* out of the Pledge of Allegiance. A more logical choice would be to return it to it's original form. Then, no matter what religion you are, or aren't, you can say "under God" if that's your choice, just like you can pray to your god or meditate during a minute of silence in school. No child in school should be made to feel like an outsider, or even a freak, because everyone else is saying "under god" and they're not.
The division of church and state is in accordance with our constitution. It's that simple. Religion is one thing, in this country at least, that is not subject to majority rule. Religion is totally individual and not subject to vote.
When the courts banned the pledge, they did it ONLY because of the "under god" wording. They haven't gone crazy at all, they simply enforced the constitution, as they are supposed to do. Does anyone really believe that supreme court judges think that we should stop saying the Pledge of Allegiance?? Clearly they do not.
That's why there are three branches of government, remember that part? To make sure that no one branch runs over the others. Congress overstepped their bounds, in 1954 (?), when they changed a long time tradition and added " under god" to the Pledge, under heavy duty lobbying pressure, I might add. Someone early in this discussion wondered why, when people object to "under god" they always assumed that it was a Christian god, that is referred to in the Pledge of Allegiance. Does anyone seriously think that the Knights of Columbus had any other god in mind when they launched their campaign for this addition to the pledge? The reversal of that travesty of legislation is long overdue. Finally someone had the guts.
Has it occurred to anyone that the founding fathers, probably Christians to the man, gave this a lot of consideration before separating church and state? Do you think that they did not consider the union "under god"? Of course they did. They just knew that this country was founded on the principle of religious freedom, and allowing ANY form of religion to be forced upon the people of the union by the government was a recipe for disaster. So, in spite of their own religious convictions, they *insisted* on the separation of church and state. The only ones who disagree are those who believe their own convictions are superior and the only "true" beliefs.
And make no mistake about it. Forcing children of religions other than Christians, and children of, yes, atheists, to pay fealty to god in order to express their loyalty to their country, is, in fact, clearly an instance of the state forcing religion down the throats of its own people (and please don't tell me that those children don't to *have* to say "under god" or that they can leave the room, when everyone else is praying, because I already addressed that issue. )Plus, we have at least one person on the forum who told of his experience of a teacher attempting to force him to say it even after examining the school rules prohibiting it.)
And, as I made very clear in my first post, I dare anyone to tell me that they are more patriotic or love their country more than I do, simply because I don't love their god. As stated, I am a Vietnam combat veteran, and have lost a father, two uncles, and dear friends fighting for this country.
BTW, my definition of patriotism is love of *country* not love or support of government or politicians. I have not completely made up my mind about this war in Iraq, but regardless of my decision, the support, or lack thereof, of our current "leaders" will not make me any more or less patriotic. Supporting people and organizations who make it a career lying to the people, has nothing to do with patriotism or love of country. The founding fathers actually advocated overthrowing a government which threatened liberty.
I'm personally leaning toward a thumbs up sign for knocking out Sadam, due *primarily* to very solid, logical arguments from members of this forum. I guess, if truth be known, the only thing preventing me from giving 100% approval, is the thought of men and women , in our armed forces, losing their lives over this madman, and, I have to honestly add, the fact that I think George Jr. is a dunce.
Regardless of the any of that, I absolutely and unequivocally support our troops in uniform and will give my all to do whatever I can to help them prevail should war come, and it appears to be inevitable.
I should probably say that I am *not* an atheist. I have very strong spiritual ties to what I consider to be the Spirit of Life. I also am well aware that no one, on either side of this discussion, is going to be much affected by my words, but I feel the need to speak up for what is, not only on this forum a minority, but a minority *especially* on this forum, . Just my 2 cents
"Don't ever think you know what's right for the other person. He might start thinking he knows what's right for you".-Paul Williams, `Das Energi'
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect every one who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined."
-Patrick Henry
