Have you considered police checkpoints?

yacoub said:
I remember one night I was driving home from a friend's house and in the middle of nowhere, I come around a bend in a road there was a roadblock checkpoint with three cop cars, officers with flashlights stopping each car to talk with the driver, etc. Certainly there's a small amount of comfort in their ability to do that in that sort of situation, but in other situations such as a disaster, such roadblocks would be a massive impediment to traffic flow, but yet likely to be there just the same.

Thoughts for avoiding being stuck in a long line of cars waiting to (hopefully just) get waved through? There's nothing like unexpected delays to eat up valuable time you hoped would put a good distance between you and the area you're leaving in order to hopefully beat the main rush of folks leaving.
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I've always found the old Jedi mind trick comes in real handy when dealing with police checkpoints.... ;)

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Thomas Linton said:
There are enough realistic, threatening possibilities out there that one should prepare for - getting lost, loss of employment, loss of personal security to a carjacker.
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Now there's some true life survival situations:thumbup:

And yeah I know what you mean. Like the whole terrorisim thing. Terrorists are bad but remember Oklahoma City? And the Weathermen and SLA? The LA Rodney King and the Watts Riots? We've had some fairly apocalyptic stuff come down in the past too!
 
So basically what you're saying is that you espouse the liberal view antithetical to the mottos of such groups as the BoyScouts and the Marines, in that your perspective is, "If it hasn't happened yet, it won't happen. Ignore the growing warning signs and pretend everything is fine."
Your mindset is the last one would expect to find in a forum about Survival Skills since it is one of apathy.

Nowhere have I said that I take what Alex Jones says as fact, however, facts reported on that he and others covered can be used to draw one's own conclusions without any hyperbole and exaggeration Mr. Jones might wish to add. Personally I dislike his journalistic style (particularly the aggressive way he interviews folks) and think he presents only the most negative conclusions. That doesn't completely disqualify the events and facts, just as it doesn't completely qualify his view of them. There's a balance between his view and yours where the truth lies.
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You've got me pegged yacoub. I got all turned around back when I was busy "killing a commie for mommie" when you were still filling your diaper with green stuff, if you had even been born yet. You defend your view by attacking me. Fine. Maybe, just maybe, if you live long enough you will learn the meaning of honor and duty. You will learn to appreciate the men and women who stand up and protect you from the slimeballs here and abroad while you rest safe at home. Here is a way for you to protect yourself from the "Men in Black".

 
Me and rusty dog went hunting this evening, I killed 2 grey squirrels and a possum, I used my old single shot 20 gauge I have had since I was 12, it still gets the job done. I am pretty sure that a silent black helicopter was watching and photographing me, I left early because I forgot my aluminum foil. :cool:
 
hollowdweller said:
Now there's some true life survival situations:thumbup:

And yeah I know what you mean. Like the whole terrorisim thing. Terrorists are bad but remember Oklahoma City? And the Weathermen and SLA? The LA Rodney King and the Watts Riots? We've had some fairly apocalyptic stuff come down in the past too!
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And yet being prepared (i.e. BOB) for a general disaster emergency and self defense would have prepared you for any/all of those. Funny how that works, eh?
 
Guy, its' not the idea of preparation. That is why most folks are here. Prepartion increases your chances of survival when bad things happen. (Not that anyone sanely thinks that a BOB is any kind of guarantee. To respond to your last: no, a BOB would not have prepared you to be blown to jam by some nutjob.)

Nor is this a place where people hang out because they wish to avoid personal responsbility for the care of themselves and those they love. They are here to learn and share the skills of wilderness and other survival.

Collectively, we have experienced about every kind of lashup imaginable, whether from nature or man. That's "experienced," as opposed to being told about it secondhand or seeing what the media wants you to see.

That's enough drama without inventing more.


A member suggests, perhaps tongue-in-cheek, that the best bet to escape a disaster is a chopper. You reply:

yacoub said:
lol these days, they'd probably shoot you down ;P
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In view of your later comments on "police state," this appears to be a serious expression of opinion. (Can't be fact. Hasn't happened.) But how does that opinion match what we see when there are disasters - or any sort of dustup? We see clouds of news copters - too damn many if you ask me - not choppers being shot down by police or military.

It's that eager espousal of impending doom -- combined with calling anyone who disagrees "ignorant" and "blind" -- that heavily discounts your contributions.

Lord knows, we had enough miscounduct in NOLA by government -- both before and after. But the very fact that it was heavily attacked and the subject of successful court action does not argue that we are on the edge of the Long Slide Into Darkness. It proves the contrary. In a "police state" you don't have the TV sticking mic's into the faces of the wrongdoers or judges ordering the rerun of unlawfully-taken property.

In 1941-42, we rounded up an entire ethinic group (and took away almost everything they owned in the world) and put them in concentration camps because others of the same ethinic group had attacked us with force and violence, killing many. Their was no evidence these American citizens of Japanese dissent were disloyal.

In 2001, members of an ethnic group attacked us with force and violence and killed many - more than at Pearl Harbor IIRC. Some American members of that group publically celebrated the deaths of Americans on 9/11. We are not allowed to lawfully investigate them simply because they are of that ethnic group, much less round them all up and sieze all of their homes and bank accounts. SO when was government more authoritarian - now or before -- doubtless before -- you were born.

We are not near the creation of a police state.

We are still trying to balance the needs of security with liberty -- the great experiment.
 
Thomas Linton said:
A member suggests, perhaps tongue-in-cheek, that the best bet to escape a disaster is a chopper. You reply:

-quote I made about being shot down referencing how the government mandates all aircraft land immediately following a 'terrorist' act so you'd likely get shot down if you didn't land-
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I'm missing where I'm wrong there. You seriously think you could take a hypothetical helicopter from your hypothetical helipad to escape after a hypothetical terrorist attack? Maybe if you lived in a hypothetical country that didn't lock down all airspace except for military and emergency aircraft.

In 1941-42, we rounded up an entire ethinic group (and took away almost everything they owned in the world) and put them in concentration camps because others of the same ethinic group had attacked us with force and violence, killing many. Their was no evidence these American citizens of Japanese dissent were disloyal.
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And now we're building holding/detention/concentration centers at municipal airports and having the military coordinate with local and state authorities to practice tactics to seek out and round up an un-named group of people (i.e. whomever it turns out they decide to weed out and round up). That doesn't seem even slightly worrisome to you that history could be about to repeat itself?

Look I have no interest in arguing about these things, especially since I'm not buying Alex Jones type paranoia, but some of the naivety around here is a bit disconcerting.
 
Thomas Linton said:
In 1941-42, we rounded up an entire ethinic group (and took away almost everything they owned in the world) and put them in concentration camps because others of the same ethinic group had attacked us with force and violence, killing many. Their was no evidence these American citizens of Japanese dissent were disloyal.

In 2001, members of an ethnic group attacked us with force and violence and killed many - more than at Pearl Harbor IIRC. Some American members of that group publically celebrated the deaths of Americans on 9/11. We are not allowed to lawfully investigate them simply because they are of that ethnic group, much less round them all up and sieze all of their homes and bank accounts. SO when was government more authoritarian - now or before -- doubtless before -- you were born.

We are not near the creation of a police state.

We are still trying to balance the needs of security with liberty -- the great experiment.
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i think this is well said. my aunt was born at manzanar in the desert near bishop, ca. as far as i know she holds no ill will toward the us gov't, nor does her family, for the treatment of japanese americans during this time.

off topic, i know, but since it was brought up, and is definitely in the context of this thread, thought id mention it.

and i harbor no negative feelings for what was done. it was 60 years ago! i dont believe for a second the same feelings exist in our gov't today, as evidenced by mr. littons other statements.
 
yacoub said:
And now we're building holding/detention/concentration centers at municipal airports and having the military coordinate with local and state authorities to practice tactics to seek out and round up an un-named group of people (i.e. whomever it turns out they decide to weed out and round up).
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Reliable news source on this claim please.
 
yacoub said:
I'm missing where I'm wrong there. You seriously think you could take a hypothetical helicopter from your hypothetical helipad to escape after a hypothetical terrorist attack? Maybe if you lived in a hypothetical country that didn't lock down all airspace except for military and emergency aircraft.
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Ask yourself why a "disaster, in your head, is automatically "a . . . terorist attack." Compare such disasters with all others in our history.

And in the relatively rare case of terroriat attack, did OKC, the FIRST attack on the WTC, or the anthrax attacks in DC result in a lock down of all air airspace? (No.) The air lockdown was a logical response to a very specific sort of threat, not an example of a police state.

It just seems to be the way you think.

And now we're building holding/detention/concentration centers at municipal airports and having the military coordinate with local and state authorities to practice tactics to seek out and round up an un-named group of people (i.e. whomever it turns out they decide to weed out and round up). That doesn't seem even slightly worrisome to you that history could be about to repeat itself?
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Where? When? Says Who?

But to answer your question, no.

Look I have no interest in arguing about these things, especially since I'm not buying Alex Jones type paranoia, but some of the naivety around here is a bit disconcerting.
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Ignoring history creates an even a greater threat of the reptition of evils of the past than naivete.

And name-calling strengthens no argument but typically draws anger that obscures even valid points.
 
im not sure what you are talking about yacoub. what airspace lockdown are you referring to? the one immediately following 911? seemed justified to me. or another i am not aware of?

i have never seen nor heard of a detention facility being 'built' at an airport. airports often times have their own police department, and hence their own jails. the atf, fbi, dea, and other agencies also have offices at airports and their own detention areas. as far as rounding random groups of people (unnamed?) up and putting them in these imaginary detention facilities, never heard of that either.

i have been in law enforcement for eight years, and have never been trained on these tactics you mention. never even heard of them.
 
Sorry guys. I couldn't resist. It is an age old self defense reaction. Drove my exwife nuts. When reason doesn't work, PUNT!

Codger
 
The gradual loss of freedom due to government control is a slippery slope...But a police state? Nazi Germany was a police state that rounded up its civilian population and executed a large percentage of them. There is no such program in the good 'ole US of A. The detention of non-US citizen enemy combatants who we captured attacking/planning to attack US troops is essential to our security. This does not infringe on my personal freedom.

Hitler did ban all private ownership of firearms though, so be wary of anyone who tries to take away your means of self-defense from the state. But we are far from that reality due to the successful lobbing tactics of the NRA, an organization who has a broad base of support from voters.

The media in this country is irresponsible and sensationalist yes, but it is not a state controlled propaganda ministry headed by Joseph Goebbels.

The one thing leads to another argument only goes so far, despite what the folks who are obsessed with bildeberg and illuminati say. History certainly can repeat itself, but I don't think we are on the verge of a 3rd Reich type regime here anytime soon.
 
darthstrevel said:
Hitler did ban all private ownership of firearms though, so be wary of anyone who tries to take away your means of self-defense from the state. But we are far from that reality due to the successful lobbing tactics of the NRA, an organization who has a broad base of support from voters.
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lobbying. sorry, used to be a teacher. and never mind my all lower case posts.:D
 
darthstrevel said:
I am ashamed to say this, but my mother is a HS English teacher...The acorn fell too far from the tree.
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not at all, all evidence to the contrary. good posts. its hard to get an opinion across to someone who only speaks from emotion and mostly avoids meaningful questions or points. :thumbup:
 
akennedy73 said:
I've always found the old Jedi mind trick comes in real handy when dealing with police checkpoints.... ;)

ObiWanMindTrick.Png
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POSH! Lets see your silly storm troopers catch this:
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Seriously. If this is a NOLA scale dizaster, they wont have time to worry about the idiot in the Trans Am. :D

Thinking i need more horsepower; maybee ill add a 3 stage turbo charger. :D
 
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