Have you had a broken Omega spring in an Axis lock folder?

[JNewell]

If you're going to throw out broad generalizations and opinions like that, you're going to have to back them up with facts and numbers...

The reliability of the omega springs are questionable. The percentages of failure is too high. I prefer the helical springs of Spyderco's ball bearing locks instead of the Omega to push something to wedge open a blade (which is what it's basically doing).

 

[Wunderbar]

I'm a former big fan of Benchmades. They've just moved away from the type of knives that I like (Mini AFCK, Mini Stryker, Darkstar, etc). I'm more of a liner lock type guy. I've never had a broken Omega spring in an axis lock but then again the longest I've carried one was for a year before trading it off. Now if we start talking about coil springs in Benchmades smaller autos...well that's another topic.

 

[Cotherion]

If you're going to throw out broad generalizations and opinions like that, you're going to have to back them up with facts and numbers...

I guess I'm gonna be called for that but I truly feel that there is a problem there. Firstly there is this poll vote giving the figure at about 12% right now. Assuming it's inaccurate I'll use 6%, 6% is still way too high.

Back a long time ago when I did not have a spring failure I defended Benchmade too. Went on to buy a 710 and a Rukus. In time I read more about omega spring failures (I don't think I will go search old threads just for this, ain't an affidavit of court and I'll win nothing ) until one day it happened to me finally. I didn't believe it at the time and thought I had let it rusted. Opening up showed me that it was shiny.

And I wasn't being too harsh, I said questionable and I'm questioning it now. If I was generalizing then I'd say it's all useless but I think it's stupid to say that. Secondly even half of the current percentage (6%) is way too high. Thirdly I have not read of the helical spring of the bb locks failing and they have been a while as well however that too is assuming I have not missed some info lying about

I can't back up what I said with statistics or references, this is just an internet discussion and it's too much work to do something like a report. I don't want a war of words just expressing my opinion, most either take it or leave it.

In my line of work if faced with a figure as high as 1% complaints from customers then I consider my product being questionable.

 

[Modoc ED]

I've got two Benchmades with axis locks. One a 720 that I bought around Christmas 2000 and a Griptillian that I bought in January of this year. I've had no problems with either but I have noticed that the axis lock on the 720 is much smoother that the axis lock on the Griptillian.

 

[Brian Sargent]

When the springs break ... where is it? Where they wrap around the bar, bend into the liner or both?

 

[JNewell]

Even with a huge amount of charity, these polls are waaaaaay unscientific. Add in the fact that in similar polls people who are known not to even own the knife give an answer and I really don't think they're worth much, other than on matters of opinion. I've got a pile of these knives, and a couple of 710s go back to the first year of introduction and have zillions of cycles - I've never had a spring break. I have no doubt that it happens, and I would say that the spring design is the potential weak point of the Axis design, but there is no lock I know of that does not have some drawback. There are probably several reasons not to buy an Axis knife, but I wouldn't let the springs be that reason. YMMV...

 

[Mattman888]

Yes, twice.

 

[mat_890]

If you're going to throw out broad generalizations and opinions like that, you're going to have to back them up with facts and numbers...

I have watched the poll from the beginning. Its hovered between 10-20% failure rate from the first few hours until now.

I can't see people lying about it, and if people are, I can see them lying in both directions. Your name is tagged to the poll option you chose, If someone went on a benchmade smear campaign it would come out.

I have no experience with spydercos ball lock and can't speak to its reliability but certainly the failure rate reported with the axis lock is unacceptable.

To everyone who will chime in discrediting the results. Yes it's not a scientific poll, but its more accurate then what you personally think. To clarify, what you believe to be true from your own personal experiences is not scientific either and is certainly less accurate and more bias then a poll like this.

I simple solution is just to provide a few extra springs in the box. Done.

 

[darthsoaker]

I simple solution is just to provide a few extra springs in the box. Done.

That would be the practical solution.

Unfortunately, Benchmade's warranty is technically voided whenever the knife is disassembled. In practice, as long as you don't send the knife to Benchmade in pieces, they are fairly forgiving is this aspect. But unless/until Benchmade changes their warranty, it would be counter-productive for them to include springs which require disassembly to replace.

 

[darthsoaker]

I'm really starting to wonder if it is a corrosion related issue: after all, members such as myself have reported tens-hundreds of thousands of cycles with no failure, while other members have had broken omega springs on multiple knives over the course of just a few months.

 

[mat_890]

That would be the practical solution.

Unfortunately, Benchmade's warranty is technically voided whenever the knife is disassembled. In practice, as long as you don't send the knife to Benchmade in pieces, they are fairly forgiving is this aspect. But unless/until Benchmade changes their warranty, it would be counter-productive for them to include springs which require disassembly to replace.

Ouch, never knew that.

Thanks for the info!

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

I would be very surprised if it were even 14% of 1% of the AXIS lock knives sold that have a spring break. You can say that 14% of people have had a spring break in this poll, but that is only 20 people. A search of this website for "broken omega spring" only yields 94 threads. Most of those threads are people talking about the possibility of an omega spring breaking but have not actually had it happen. I think the "broken omega spring" has been perpetuated by people who worry about it and like other locks better for whatever reasons, real or perceived. I would say there might be 30 people who have had a broken spring in those 94 threads and many of them are people who voted in this poll.

I don't know how many knives Benchmade makes but I would imagine there are multiple hundred of thousands of omega springs in service. A small handful of people have reported a problem so the odds of having a spring break are statistically zero.

As mentioned even if a spring breaks there is a second one to keep the knife working until it can be repaired. Even if both springs break something small can be wedged behind the lock bar locking the knife open. What other types of locks can be easily fixed in the field if they break in the manner they are most likely to break? Also, it is easy to take a piece of piano wire, guitar string, or even MIG welding wire to fashion a spring in just a couple minutes. I have had one spring break out of about a dozen knives that have been used often. I always have an AXIS lock knife in my pocket every single day and they are used often and played with multiple times a day. A MIG wire was fashioned into a spring and has been working perfectly ever since. I have had problems with both liner and frame locks and was not able to do anything to fix the knife because they essentially needed a new lock bar to fix it, yet I was able to fix the dreaded broken omega spring in about 10 minutes with a piece of wire and 2 pairs of needle nose pliers. I don't care how easy an omega spring breaks, I will take the lock I can fix myself every time not even taking into account that the AXIS is one of the strongest locks made, ambidextrous, and perfectly placed to not require a change of hand position or placing fingers in the path of the blade.

As a side note, if you ever make an omega spring, make sure to make two and replace both sides. Since the wire you use will most likely behave differently than the original spring you want to make one for each side so that the spring tension is equal and the lock bar is loaded evenly.

 

[marthinus]

I have not had a spring break on my two models. One is a 550HG 2 years old. Seen a lot of water and blood as it is a hunting knife. No issues. Just a good cleaning, shake well and some CRC 2-26 electrical spray to displace any water. Good to go.

I would still like to see someone do the following to the ball bearing lock for my own viewing pleasure to see if it is affected by debris (but no one has been willing but will pick one up in future)

[youtube]9c9eufyyXEI[/youtube]

Anyway. Even if the springs would break the lock is not rendered useless.

[youtube]JkVtxEQ215k[/youtube]

 

[parker770]

I have owned a few axis knives(5 or 6) some of which were used daily for years without problems.

I have noticed springs that seemed to be on their way out and had lost most of their tension on used knives that I pick up. A trip to Benchmade solved the problem(springs replaced)

 

[Cotherion]

I don't want to sound whiny but I don't want to fix it myself and I should not be fixing it myself. Not every knifeowner is a minimum requirement of a semi acceptable fiddler.

The statistics is not perfect but as I said before, even 1% is a problem that should be addressed. 1% is honestly way to large a value. If Benchmade is my firm I'll have to sit up and take notice.

Similar polls should be run for every lock. Tri-ad, lockback, framelock, linerlock, BB lock, ramlock and so on. All asking the question of "ever had a component of the lock go kaputski"

It is good that some knife lovers can fix their blades whenever something goes wrong but that should never be the case.

 

[samhain73]

Nope, none ever broke.

 

[marthinus]

Similar polls should be run for every lock. Tri-ad, lockback, framelock, linerlock, BB lock, ramlock and so on. All asking the question of "ever had a component of the lock go kaputski"
.

One should also keep in mind “A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools.” Douglas Adams

Even if we get all the stats, some people still do crazy things that the designer did not know or intent the design to take. Then debates about what is the "best" or "strongest" what is the "perfect" lock....it is a viscous circle that I doubt we will ever get to a final conclusion.

 

[JNewell]

Honestly, polls on fora like this are essentially useless as a scientific or quantitative exercise. There's nothing about them at all that lines up with good survey methodology.

Having said that...I wonder, if you went back and looked at posts that reported a failure and named the model (#), whether you'd find that some models are more likely to have springs break than others?

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

I think this poll is actually about as good as we can get. What else could you possibly go by, a statement from Benchmade about reported failures and/or returns?

Besides Benchmade's very own forum, I don't know where else we could find as many people who even own axis knives. Honestly if there is a skewed percentage I would think it would be more so on the side of people saying "no broken springs." Guys really stick up for their favorite football teams...tool, car, truck brands...

I know it's possible for there to be sneaky competitor pushing ninjas who hope knocking on the axis-lock will get some one to buy another brand, but in my view it seems less likely.

I'm betting it's 99% honesty here. Even though I still haven't purchased my own BM axis knife, the poll and reports off and on over the years wouldn't scare me off one but simply tell me not to play with it too much.

 

[Brennanscott]

To clarify, I was an English and Philosophy double major in my undergraduate, and am currently an English grad student. Literally all I do is read, and write.

Trust me, even with all the reading I do, I'm always feeling like I haven't read enough. There will always be somebody who is more well read in a specific area, and keeping up with my very specific focus in a current scholarly debate is a chore.

I almost always have a knife in my hand--except when I'm in places where that would be frowned upon. I guess I'm somewhat of an extreme "knifesturbator".

I'm being completely honest, and, I feel, conservative with my estimates on the 943 cycles. It may very well be above 3-5 million. Again, spend even 4 hours a day cycling once per second (60 x 60 x 4 = 14,400) will quickly add up if you do it every day for four years. (60 x 60 x 4 x 365 x 4 = 21,024,000).

I don't really have a "real job" outside of being a student, so I have a lot more time to "knifesturbate".

I can do math too, I still don't believe the story though.